Belleayre Opens Gondola Today - Page 5

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  1. #41
    Here you go.

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    It is possible that the long range planners have a better idea of the realities of this upgrade than the AZ ski area development council here.
    The problem with this statement is that the long range plan did not include a gondola. The master plan that was in development for years and years didn't include this piece...but then suddenly at essentially the last minute the plan is changed and an HSQ in the plan is replaced with a gondola? When you have a last minute change like that it doesn't exactly speak to something that was well thought out by the "long range planners". In fact it makes it sound like those people that know what they are doing had little involvement in the change and that it was driven by someone that did it for other reasons (i.e. political).

    What's the ROI on a new gondola that serves no new terrain? Are people that previously didn't ski Belleayre going to suddenly start running there just because they have a gondola now? The $8M spent on the gondola would have gone a long way towards building out the trails and a lift on the Highmount pod. And I would argue that increasing your terrain with an entirely new pod would be much more likely to drive more people to the mountain than a gondola to nowhere.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhead View Post
    Here you go.
    Gotta love lower Skyeship...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    It is possible that the long range planners have a better idea of the realities of this upgrade than the AZ ski area development council here.
    Short Answer:

    No.





    Long Answer:

    They just put a GONDOLA in at Belleayre. Has that not sunk in for you yet? A gondola - at Belleayre. This doesn't need to be overthought. It's not Einstein's mass–energy equivalence calculation. There is no possible rational explanation here.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  5. #45
    JimG.'s Avatar
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    Remind me again all of you naysayers...

    Exactly how many ski areas have you owned, developed, or even managed?

    That's right...zero.

    Your expertise is dubious. In some cases outright hate disqualifies any and all commentary.

    Gondola envy? Pathetic.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post

    Exactly how many ski areas have you owned, developed, or even managed?

    That's right...zero.


    Your expertise is dubious.
    Exactly how many ski areas has New York State owned, developed, or even managed?

    That's right...three.

    Their expertise is dubious.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  7. #47
    So on another topic, how much snow is up there off-trail? There was someone the highway on the way home from VT last weekend, but wondering if they get lucky with 6-8" from this storm....any chance for trees? Cathedral brook? Or not enough yet?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    Remind me again all of you naysayers...

    Exactly how many ski areas have you owned, developed, or even managed?

    That's right...zero.

    Your expertise is dubious. In some cases outright hate disqualifies any and all commentary.
    Have you read the Belleayre UMP? Like I said in an earlier post, it is highly detailed and very well thought out. It WAS created in collaboration with ski industry experts over the course of several years. My biggest issue is that the plan they created has been largely tossed aside here at the last minute and the recommendations made in their own plan aren't being followed.

    Belleayre is my second favorite area in the Catskills (with only Platty being ahead of them). I want them to succeed. I've skied many days there over the years. A gondola by itself is not the answer to get them where they need to be (especially when you have Hunter planning a terrain expansion in the very near future).

  9. #49
    Anyone want to post up the ROI numbers put forth by the planners?

    How much revenue is the lift projected to generate?

    Let's look at that and if they fail to achieve those numbers in a few years, we can validate the quality of investment as bad.



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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    Anyone want to post up the ROI numbers put forth by the planners?

    How much revenue is the lift projected to generate?

    Let's look at that and if they fail to achieve those numbers in a few years, we can validate the quality of investment as bad.
    None of the plans I've seen show any breakdown for ROI of individual components. They talk about the ROI once the full expansion plan is completed. Per the plan, Belleayre currently operates at roughly a 600K/year loss. After full expansion, they project they would operate at a roughly 1M/year profit. This is largely based on the assumption that if they double the Comfortable Carrying Capacity of the resort, they would see a proportional increase in skier visits. I can say that in the plan, the proposed "Discovery Lift" (which is what the new Gondola has become) was supposed to have 0 impact on the CCC. The plan specifically says that lift was primarily intended as a transit lift to get people from the new proposed expanded main base facilities into the trail system and afterwards they would primarily use other existing or proposed lifts once actually within the trail network.

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