Ten new lifts for gore and whiteface?

danimals · Jan 21, 2018

https://liftblog.com/2018/01/19/gore-whiteface-propose-ten-new-lifts/

Link includes maps! Looks like new new lodges too. New York seems to be on a spending spree with their ski areas.

deadheadskier · Jan 21, 2018

I thought I read there's a cap on trail acreage expansion at Whiteface. Could have sworn Ive read that a liftline or two there are closed to skiing because of that cap.

Wonder what these improvements will do towards bringing in more business. Seems Gore and Whiteface are great areas, but most people from NY and NJ still head to VT

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gladerider · Jan 21, 2018

i was there, whiteface, for the MLK. i was surprised that they have expanded the kiddie lodge. the proposed lift from the kiddie lodge from the main lodge and another from the parking lot from the main lodge would be great. these additions would make it so much easier for the skiers.
i've been going there for more than 15 years now. the crowd has increased quite a bit, i think.

Rowsdower · Jan 21, 2018

People won't hit Whiteface because its notorious for cold/icy conditions. It isn't nicknamed Iceface for nothing. The perception is that VT is somehow more forgiving.

Belleayre seems to lose business to Hunter because it was never developed into the kind of resort that Hunter was with hotels and and spa and all that junk. I kind of like Belleayre to be honest. It's got some unique runs like Cathedral Brook and Tomahawk Liftline that are a lot of fun when conditions warrant. Part of the reason I preferred it to Hunter was the relative lack of crowds and less developed feel.

Oh well.

BenedictGomez · Jan 21, 2018

danimals said:
New York seems to be on a spending spree with their ski areas.

When it's government run, who cares how much money it loses?!?!!? It's "free money" from New Yorker's paychecks anyway.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deadheadskier said:
Seems Gore and Whiteface are great areas, but most people from NY and NJ still head to VT

For very good reasons, generally.

BenedictGomez · Jan 21, 2018

gladerider said:
the proposed lift from the kiddie lodge from the main lodge and another from the parking lot from the main lodge would be great.

I think it would be a great waste of money.

Like it's really such a "hardship" to take the short bunny lift (which is always completely empty) up a few feet and ski the very short run to the main lodge? That's a few million dollars flushed down the toilet IMO.

The other "approved lift" on that map seems like a waste of money too. Granted, not as much of a "waste" of money as an $8 Million dollar gondola at Belleayre, but looking collectively at all these NY expenditures on skiing, it really begs the question, who the hell is coming up with this crap?

If you're going to spend millions of dollars at Whiteface, there is only ONE ANSWER for where those funds should go, and that is SNOW-MAKING. But I guess snow-making isn't a sexy sell or resume-pumper.

benski · Jan 22, 2018

I like the right lift proposed for whiteface, but the one on the left seems dumb. Must be the same person who proposed the Belleayre Gondola. As for Gore, Do they have to make every trail a Cruiser? Do they really need a high speed quad to replace that short lift at north creek thats under 10 years ago. I guess i better go there this year meanwhile they still have trails with character.

BenedictGomez · Jan 22, 2018

benski said:
I like the right lift proposed for whiteface, but the one on the left seems dumb. Must be the same person who proposed the Belleayre Gondola. As for Gore, Do they have to make every trail a Cruiser? Do they really need a high speed quad to replace that short lift at north creek thats under 10 years ago.

I didnt look at the Gore stuff, but that would be an equally stupid waste of money.

North Creek is always empty, WTH would they need a high speed quad for!?!? LOL.

And as you said, that lift is fairly short that serves < 1,000 vertical to begin with, not to mention I've never felt that chair was excessively slow to begin with. Yay government, "free" money.

ss20 · Jan 22, 2018

BenedictGomez said:
I didnt look at the Gore stuff, but that would be an equally stupid waste of money.

North Creek is always empty, WTH would they need a high speed quad for!?!? LOL.

And as you said, that lift is fairly short that serves < 1,000 vertical to begin with, not to mention I've never felt that chair was excessively slow to begin with. Yay government, "free" money.

North Creek would be lengthened on a new alignment, warranting HSQ status (I guess). A few new trails too.

JimG. · Jan 22, 2018

Here we go.

jimmywilson69 · Jan 22, 2018

Completely off topic, but I've been seeing a bunch of Ski NY commercials here in Central PA.

Killingtime · Jan 22, 2018

Skied at Gore for the first time ever this past Saturday and Sunday on the Max Pass. Other than an old rickety double (The High Peaks I think) I found all the lifts to be in good shape with surprisingly small lines. Even the Gondola wasn't that terrible with almost no line before 10:00. Take some of that ORDA money and make the Tannery Pub larger! Place was packed both days. Really decent burgers. Maybe pump some money into snowmaking. Lots of trails closed and getting thin on others but since I don't ski there I'll let others discuss that in more detail. Overall impression though is that it's a fun mountain with a lot of great people working there. Definitely look forward to back there again.

p_levert · Jan 22, 2018

Gore could use a lift from the main base to the top of Burnt Ridge because Burnt Ridge is a pain to get to. Of course, that lift is not in the plan.

The other stuff in the ORDA plan doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

BenedictGomez · Jan 22, 2018

p_levert said:
Gore could use a lift from the main base to the top of Burnt Ridge because Burnt Ridge is a pain to get to. Of course, that lift is not in the plan.

The other stuff in the ORDA plan doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

That would make more sense. Or maybe even a chair that went from North Creek to Burnt Ridge. I agree though, Burnt Ridge has some really nice terrain, and it's a little tough to get to depending upon where you are.

jimmywilson69 said:
I've been seeing a bunch of Ski NY commercials here in Central PA.

Same here in western NJ. It's the same commercial that's been on a lot. I'm not sure how effective it is though as it's just a generic "ski NY" commercial rather than targeted marketing for a region or cluster of areas. And TV commercials in prime time are very expensive.

Rowsdower · Jan 22, 2018

Am I the only one who wishes they'd have just left Belleayre alone? I kinda liked the place as it was.

mbedle · Jan 22, 2018

With the new lift over at North Creek, its interesting that the new trails will be on private land. It looks like maybe the build out of Ski Bowl village might actually happen... If it does, that might make a difference at Gore.

benski · Jan 22, 2018

mbedle said:
With the new lift over at North Creek, its interesting that the new trails will be on private land. It looks like maybe the build out of Ski Bowl village might actually happen... If it does, that might make a difference at Gore.

Good point, I still think a HSQ is excessive for that lift line and it is very shortsighted of them to desire a new alignment for such a young lift. Though the ASC replaced the original GMX with a short quad and the North Ridge express then when sugarbush was sold 5 years later the GMX replaced the short quad, so they are not the only one so short sighted.

mbedle · Jan 23, 2018

I have no idea what is happening behind the scenes, but I would venture to guess that part of the property transfer to the town from the development corporation might have something to do with the lift being replaced, extended higher and the trails being cut on the private property. I would also guess that the transfer required the installation of the transport lift from ski bowl back to main base. With additional parking and hotels/condos being built out on the ski bowl side, they are going to need it. Development is most likely the only thing that is going to save Gore and Belleayre and make them turn a profit. Unfortunate for Whiteface with the complete lack of developable land anywhere near its base, its destine to be a money losing state attraction.

BenedictGomez · Jan 23, 2018

Whiteface is already profitable. Were it run better obviously it could make more, but it's not a liability.

Gore would absolutely turn a profit if it was privately owned. There's no doubt. Even if it basically breaks even now, it's a tremendous asset that's essentially being wasted.

Belleayre would go out of business without government charity.

andrec10 · Jan 23, 2018

killingtime said:
skied at gore for the first time ever this past saturday and sunday on the max pass. Other than an old rickety double (the high peaks i think) i found all the lifts to be in good shape with surprisingly small lines. Even the gondola wasn't that terrible with almost no line before 10:00. Take some of that orda money and make the tannery pub larger! Place was packed both days. Really decent burgers. Maybe pump some money into snowmaking. Lots of trails closed and getting thin on others but since i don't ski there i'll let others discuss that in more detail. Overall impression though is that it's a fun mountain with a lot of great people working there. Definitely look forward to back there again.

invest in snowmaking upgrades!

Ten new lifts for gore and whiteface?

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