Aggravation

Hawk said:

I will fully confess. We did not choose to not have kids but it turns out that those were the cards we were dealt. Now that I am 50 I can look back and say it was not the worst thing. It has totally set us up financially not having those huge costs.

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It is insane how expensive children can be. This is coming from someone who pays two private school tuitions for kids that aren't even in high school yet.

I have friends that have succeeded in the restaurant business and I have friends who have failed miserably. In general I have found that the restaurants that survive in Ski country are not super high end, serve comfort food done well and have a real good atmosphere and caters to the local crowd. If you are not closing for the summer then you will need to depend on the locals. In the MRV Local Folks Smoke House, the Mad River Barn and the Hydeaway have mastered this and are thriving.

VTKilarney said:

It is insane how expensive children can be. This is coming from someone who pays two private school tuitions for kids that aren't even in high school yet.

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I totally understand. I have 22 nieces and nephews and my siblings are struggling with the same issues. I actually think that kids now-a-days are way more expensive than when I was young In the 70's and 80's. I mean I never had an Iphone, computer, expensive game boys or electronics. Most kids went to public schools. Who even heard of a charter school. There were not nearly the amount of expensive traveling sports teams. Most of my athletics were town sponsored or very inexpensive like City league base ball, High School Hockey or Track.

You are absolutely correct. Kids are more expensive because society has made them more expensive. And this is coming from someone who does things as frugally as possible. I never intended to send my kids to private school, but there are so many kids with issues in our public school that, if you can afford it, it's a no-brainer to send your kids to a private school. The public school teachers here are very good, but they are dealt a hand that is not at all conducive to a productive learning environment. Fortunately, the investment has paid off if my children's standardized test scores are to be believed.

Let's get into a debate about troubled kids in private schools vs public schools or just public vs private schools in general. I have seen bad at both (drugs/partying/sex scandals) and outcomes similar at both (colleges excepted to).

Smellytele said:

Let's get into a debate about troubled kids in private schools vs public schools or just public vs private schools in general. I have seen bad at both (drugs/partying/sex scandals) and outcomes similar at both (colleges excepted to).

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I don't really care about other schools. I'm not sure why you would want to make this an omnibus debate.

When it comes to writing a tuition check, I care only about the schools that my children can attend. There is a HUGE difference for the positive with the private school compared to their public school option.

I am a product of public schools and would have preferred that my children attend public school. It just is what it is in my town.

VTKilarney said:

I don't really care about other schools. I'm not sure why you would want to make this an omnibus debate.

When it comes to writing a tuition check, I care only about the schools that my children can attend. There is a HUGE difference for the positive with the private school compared to their public school option.

I am a product of public schools and would have preferred that my children attend public school. It just is what it is in my town.

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Completely agree with this. There are some great public schools out there that produce as good an educational product as any private school, but there are also also some very troubled districts. The decision for private school is highly individual and unique to every family and school.

Wow, this thread took off.

About SLC smog: I've spent 8 weeks of time (7 entirely during winter) in SLC burbs since son moved there 3.5 years. Smog happens, usually in cold, still periods in heart of winter - that's when you go skiing Ski areas are all above smog level. Smog is quite variable, one year maybe one day of poor air quality exceeding federal pollution limit, another could see 20+ days. I have mild asthma and take daily inhaler. Never had a problem out there with that and smog. I only saw smog inversion once during my 6 or 7 winter visits, for several days in January 2016. My son, who skis about 75 days a winter since he moving there has never complained about smog and never mentions it unless rarely someone else does first. Guess he's still in the honeymoon phase with the region? Me too!

Kids: Cost of schools and raising kids is near and dear to me. Sent four kids to parochial schools from K-12 for religious beliefs my wife and I share. Last one graduated from HS in 2011 (now in law school). K-8 only about $1k per year equaling about $40k total for all four - a bargain IMHO. HS cost about $10k per year equaling about $160k total and together costs about $200k total to send four kids K-12. Was it worth it? I think so, although the faith beliefs didn't transfer as well as I hoped, but that's more on me. Hopefully, those values/traditions reappear and help them later in life? All but one had fairly happy childhood and school years, so I guess it was worth it. I joke that I missed owning a couple BMW sedans because of it, but fancy cars never meant much to me anyway; having a condo in ski country might be another story I figured out some ways to affordably expose them to skiing. Like religion, skiing transferred to all of them, but in varying degrees of devotion.

This thread has moved from making me think of what necessary C.O.L. adjustments I'll need to consider if moving out west, to making me petrified of potentially having children a few years from now. :-o

How the hell did we go from "the weather is frustrating" to "kids cost a lot of money"? Fascinating how threads morph over time.

You just wait. Next we are going to discuss Vape Pens and which mountain has the most promiscuous women.

BenedictGomez said:

This thread has moved from making me think of what necessary C.O.L. adjustments I'll need to consider if moving out west, to making me petrified of potentially having children a few years from now. :-o

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Our mistake was not thinking about school districts when we were childless and purchased our house. That being said, kids are expensive no matter where they go to school.

Spock would say "fascinating"...

VTKilarney said:

Our mistake was not thinking about school districts when we were childless and purchased our house. That being said, kids are expensive no matter where they go to school.

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Yeah - even if you don't have kids of your own - houses in good school districts hold and increase in value better. We're the "have a crappy small house so can live in good school district" family. Could have a McMansion if I lived two miles away lol. But I grew up in good public school district so I wanted same for my kids.

Kids are expensive as you as you let them be... My oldest just graduated college a semester early, zero student debt (no financial aid or scholarships either) - we both worked our butts off and are frugal and found ways around selling her soul to academia. And she just snared a job with a salary nearly double the cost of a year of college. we couldn't have helped if we weren't frugal ourselves - she learned a lot (i.e. Took 12 credits over summer for $200 to pass 100 level gut classses...saved us thousands $$). Don't buy into the "must go to pricey college or else" hysteria...and you'll be fine.

kingslug said:

Spock would say "fascinating"...

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The famous Vulcan or the famous childcare pediatrician?

SkiFanE said:

My oldest just graduated college a semester early, zero student debt (no financial aid or scholarships either) -

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We have dual citizenship, the other being with an EU country. My biggest fear is a child saying, "Dad, I'd like to go to college in the United States and not in Europe."

VTKilarney said:

I don't really care about other schools. I'm not sure why you would want to make this an omnibus debate.

When it comes to writing a tuition check, I care only about the schools that my children can attend. There is a HUGE difference for the positive with the private school compared to their public school option.

I am a product of public schools and would have preferred that my children attend public school. It just is what it is in my town.

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You brought it up and I really don't care one way or the other. You open the box things will escape.

VTKilarney said:

We have dual citizenship, the other being with an EU country. My biggest fear is a child saying, "Dad, I'd like to go to college in the United States and not in Europe."

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He should, I was surprised many European universities teach in English, i guess why everyone is fluent in English. I looked up some universities tuition for oversees students, and its still thousands far less than the US even though they charge international students a premium.

benski said:

He should, I was surprised many European universities teach in English, i guess why everyone is fluent in English. I looked up some universities tuition for oversees students, and its still thousands far less than the US even though they charge international students a premium.

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If you have any desire to work for a global company and move up the corporate ladder, English is critical. I work for a global company and have meetings almost every day with people from other countries. The people regularly promoted to higher level positions in other countries almost all speak fluent English (at least within the departments I work with). Sometimes I even think there are people in other countries that speak better English than some of my colleagues here in the US. It really is impressive how skilled in multiple languages many people in other countries are.

benski said:

He should, I was surprised many European universities teach in English, i guess why everyone is fluent in English. I looked up some universities tuition for oversees students, and its still thousands far less than the US even though they charge international students a premium.

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We wouldn't pay the international student premium. By law, a university in an EU country can only charge citizens of other EU countries what they charge their own citizens. In the Netherlands, for example, where they have LOTS of programs in English, tuition is about $2,500 per year for EU citizens. (It's still only $10,000 or thereabouts for non-EU citizens.) I just have to hope that they don't get so stoned that they fail their exams or that they spend the tuition savings on hookers.