SAM: Peak Resorts Pass Sales Up Thanks to Drifter Pass

Smellytele · May 15, 2018

To be honest the top of Attitash has a trail issue as well. Some of the steeper ones turn into ice skating rinks. Really only 2 ways down as Wilford's is rarely open. If they would have kept up the top notch that lift feeds just about the same stuff lower than those 2 ways down.

Jcb890 · May 15, 2018

Smellytele said:
To be honest the top of Attitash has a trail issue as well. Some of the steeper ones turn into ice skating rinks. Really only 2 ways down as Wilford's is rarely open. If they would have kept up the top notch that lift feeds just about the same stuff lower than those 2 ways down.

Looking at the trail map, it doesn't look that much different from the summit than Wildcat.

drjeff · May 15, 2018

Any HSQ to the summit of Attitash in this modern era would have to have a accompanying terrain expansion off the summit, or else the reality is that that HSQ would be serving essentially the equivalent of a WROD most operating days of the season. A HSQ there would get more people to ride it, and unless they really scaled back the capacity of the lift, the downhill on trail volume could very well be a risk issue most weekends and holidays, especially if the snow isn't fresh....

deadheadskier · May 15, 2018

Jcb890 said:
Precisely.

Attitash not having a HSQ going up to the summit (however things are configured) is an obvious loss of business. You have people in this thread saying they don't go there because of it. I find it tough to blame them too. If I go to a mountain and pay money, I expect to be able to get to the summit and sitting on a slow rickety-ass lift to do so sounds very unappealing.

I have never heard of anyone say they won't go to Mt. Snow or back to Mt. Snow because the Sunbrook lift is slow or because the Sunbrook pod was closed due to lack of snowmaking.

Yep

I've had a Peak Pass 4 of the past 5 seasons. I ski Cat about 9:1 and that triple is a big reason why. The year I didn't buy a pass was because of bad snowmaking at Cat. I very well might have still bought one had Attitash had HSQ access to their best terrain.

And Crotched having a Summit HSQ is also part of the reason why I stick with a Peak pass. Prior to its installation, CM was a mountain I had zero interest in returning to. Now it's a viable close travel alternative for me. Had they not made that switch, I'd probably look a lot closer at maybe switching to Cannon as Cannon is easier for me to day trip than Attitash and Wildcat.

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Pez · May 15, 2018

2018 and Attitash doesn't have a HSQ to the top? That's crazy. Is that Bear Peak a HSQ at least?

Jully · May 15, 2018

Pez said:
2018 and Attitash doesn't have a HSQ to the top? That's crazy. Is that Bear Peak a HSQ at least?

Bear is. It gets the longest lines at the resort as a result of it now too.

Pez · May 15, 2018

people like a fast ride even if total time (lift line and ride) takes longer

Jully · May 15, 2018

drjeff said:
Any HSQ to the summit of Attitash in this modern era would have to have a accompanying terrain expansion off the summit, or else the reality is that that HSQ would be serving essentially the equivalent of a WROD most operating days of the season. A HSQ there would get more people to ride it, and unless they really scaled back the capacity of the lift, the downhill on trail volume could very well be a risk issue most weekends and holidays, especially if the snow isn't fresh....

Snowmaking on Wilfred's I feel like would be plenty to justify a HSQ. Only one blue run down doesn't deter many places from having quads unload there. K peak has practically as much trail capacity right off the top as Attitash.

Jully · May 15, 2018

deadheadskier said:
Yep

I've had a Peak Pass 4 of the past 5 seasons. I ski Cat about 9:1 and that triple is a big reason why. The year I didn't buy a pass was because of bad snowmaking at Cat. I very well might have still bought one had Attitash had HSQ access to their best terrain.

And Crotched having a Summit HSQ is also part of the reason why I stick with a Peak pass. Prior to its installation, CM was a mountain I had zero interest in returning to. Now it's a viable close travel alternative for me. Had they not made that switch, I'd probably look a lot closer at maybe switching to Cannon as Cannon is easier for me to day trip than Attitash and Wildcat.

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If Crotched wasn't what it is today, no way I would have a pass. Even with Crotched and Wildcat, I still think seriously about dropping the pass every year. A summit HSQ at Attitash would go a long way in winning business from Boyne I feel like (who I think about shifting to).

sull1102 · May 15, 2018

For those not very familiar with the mountain, Attitash has two high speed quads. On the main mountain they have the mid-90's installed Flying Yankee that goes right up to the National Forest property line and serves 65% of the mountain, allows transfer over to Bear Peak, plus the alpine slides in summer. Over on Bear Peak, the secondary mountain, they have the aptly Express quad as the main lift for the mountain. The Summit Triple is a CTEC from 86 and goes over the Flying Yankee but takes about 15 minutes to reach the summit of Attitash while being used for scenic rides in the summer.

Another example of Peak choosing some other project over the Summit Triple in NH is the Rocket. Why out a high speed quad in at the feeder hill, but not the big time resort? Of course the Rocket now seems to be the primary reason for Crotched's success and is much loved.
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Jcb890 · May 15, 2018

sull1102 said:
For those not very familiar with the mountain, Attitash has two high speed quads. On the main mountain they have the mid-90's installed Flying Yankee that goes right up to the National Forest property line and serves 65% of the mountain, allows transfer over to Bear Peak, plus the alpine slides in summer. Over on Bear Peak, the secondary mountain, they have the aptly Express quad as the main lift for the mountain. The Summit Triple is a CTEC from 86 and goes over the Flying Yankee but takes about 15 minutes to reach the summit of Attitash while being used for scenic rides in the summer.

Another example of Peak choosing some other project over the Summit Triple in NH is the Rocket. Why out a high speed quad in at the feeder hill, but not the big time resort? Of course the Rocket now seems to be the primary reason for Crotched's success and is much loved.
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Pez said:
2018 and Attitash doesn't have a HSQ to the top? That's crazy. Is that Bear Peak a HSQ at least?

^^ That response is spot-on.
It is 2018 and Attitash does not have a High-Speed lift servicing the main mountain summit. That is pathetic.

deadheadskier · May 15, 2018

sull1102 said:
Another example of Peak choosing some other project over the Summit Triple in NH is the Rocket. Why out a high speed quad in at the feeder hill, but not the big time resort? Of course the Rocket now seems to be the primary reason for Crotched's success and is much loved.
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Though a feeder hill, I think the goal with the Rocket was to be able to compete against Wachusett and offer something Pat's does not. They also got the lift used and on the cheap from Ascutney. Crotched was pretty lame prior to that lift going in. The old chair took forever for not a lot of vertical.

A big hang up with Attitash is likely cost due to Yankee and Triple being intertwined. They would likely have to bring the Yankee down for a period of time during construction of a new summit lift. That's a difficult decision to make when the Yankee is used for the Alpine Slide and Mountain Biking in the summer.

Jully · May 15, 2018

deadheadskier said:
Though a feeder hill, I think the goal with the Rocket was to be able to compete against Wachusett and offer something Pat's does not. They also got the lift used and on the cheap from Ascutney. Crotched was pretty lame prior to that lift going in. The old chair took forever for not a lot of vertical.

A big hang up with Attitash is likely cost due to Yankee and Triple being intertwined. They would likely have to bring the Yankee down for a period of time during construction of a new summit lift. That's a difficult decision to make when the Yankee is used for the Alpine Slide and Mountain Biking in the summer.

We've talked about it before, but the Top Notch Double is what should be replaced with a HSQ. More trails in the near area, larger unloading zone, wouldn't require the Yankee to close.

Jully · May 15, 2018

sull1102 said:
For those not very familiar with the mountain, Attitash has two high speed quads. On the main mountain they have the mid-90's installed Flying Yankee that goes right up to the National Forest property line and serves 65% of the mountain, allows transfer over to Bear Peak, plus the alpine slides in summer.

It may serve 65% of the acres on Attitash, but the Yankee is a pretty pathetic lift for a large resort, IMO. It serves like 890', takes about 3.5 minutes and the trails all ski really short with a run out. Traversing is required at the top to reach many trails too, even the ones right next to the lift.

sull1102 · May 15, 2018

It's their version of Quadzilla or Canyon Quad at Snow, or hell virtually any of the lifts at up the road at BW. It serves it's purpose, especially since now 20 years later it still stands as the main lift for the entire resort year round. It now hurts the mountain in a way because without it Attitash would've gotten a new summit lift many years ago just to survive. Can you imagine if they were both fixed grips in 2018? Once another primary lift is installed on the main mountain I think you'd see it more for what it is, a 4 season lift that does it's summer job very well and the winter just okay.

A big piece of this puzzle is the whole install process because as mentioned those challenges are so severe some say just skip it altogether and install elsewhere. Summit Triple runs in summer for paid scenic rides while crossing over the very busy and essential to operations Flyer. You cannot have a summer weekend without the Flyer, you'd lose too much. The solution would be to scrap the scenic rides on the Triple, people can go ride the running Bear Peak Express anyways, and try to make things work in such a way that it was safe to operate the Yankee on weekends. It's only one tower that we're talking about here. Still doesn't address obvious wind problems that high up with a detach.

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gregnye · May 15, 2018

Jcb890 said:
^^ That response is spot-on.
It is 2018 and Attitash does not have a High-Speed lift servicing the main mountain summit. That is pathetic.

Don't get me wrong, I love slow lifts, but only when a resort has an "old-school vibe". For example, when I go to Magic, Mad River or Smuggs, I put up with the slow lift simply because it's part of the vibe.

Attitash doesn't have a retro vibe. In fact, I'd even argue that Attitash has no identity. Unlike Cannon, Loon, or Wildcat, Attitash doesn't really know what it is.

Jully · May 15, 2018

gregnye said:
Don't get me wrong, I love slow lifts, but only when a resort has an "old-school vibe". For example, when I go to Magic, Mad River or Smuggs, I put up with the slow lift simply because it's part of the vibe.

Attitash doesn't have a retro vibe. In fact, I'd even argue that Attitash has no identity. Unlike Cannon, Loon, or Wildcat, Attitash doesn't really know what it is.

Feels a lot like Waterville to me (another mountain with q lacking identity once the World Cup left).

gregnye · May 15, 2018

Jully said:
We've talked about it before, but the Top Notch Double is what should be replaced with a HSQ. More trails in the near area, larger unloading zone, wouldn't require the Yankee to close.

This seems like the best option. But it would have to be extended passed northwest passage to the true summit where wildfred's gawn is.

Does anyone know if another blue could be added to the looker's left of Saco? The turn on Saco is really icy and is not really intermediate friendly. If a trail could bypass it and end around after Amno pitch on Ammonoosuc, that might solve the overcrowding/intermediate options.

Lets be real though, the chances of this happening are 0%. I get the sense that most of Peak's customers are from Connecticut and only think of Mt. Snow. New Hampshire to them is inaccessible nothingness.

Jully · May 15, 2018

sull1102 said:
It's their version of Quadzilla or Canyon Quad at Snow, or hell virtually any of the lifts at up the road at BW. It serves it's purpose, especially since now 20 years later it still stands as the main lift for the entire resort year round. It now hurts the mountain in a way because without it Attitash would've gotten a new summit lift many years ago just to survive. Can you imagine if they were both fixed grips in 2018? Once another primary lift is installed on the main mountain I think you'd see it more for what it is, a 4 season lift that does it's summer job very well and the winter just okay.

A big piece of this puzzle is the whole install process because as mentioned those challenges are so severe some say just skip it altogether and install elsewhere. Summit Triple runs in summer for paid scenic rides while crossing over the very busy and essential to operations Flyer. You cannot have a summer weekend without the Flyer, you'd lose too much. The solution would be to scrap the scenic rides on the Triple, people can go ride the running Bear Peak Express anyways, and try to make things work in such a way that it was safe to operate the Yankee on weekends. It's only one tower that we're talking about here. Still doesn't address obvious wind problems that high up with a detach.

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Definitely, its a good 4 season lift useful for families in the winter. I was objecting to your phrasing of serving 65% of the mountain (tho factually correct), it paints the wrong picture of how the 1750' vertical attitash side skis with that lift.

As for the install, you say "make things work in such a way" and I'm pretty confident it doesn't work like that. This year at Jay all crossing lifts were shut due to work being done on the tram. Those don't even share the same towers.

You're at least losing multiple weekdays and probably at least (I would bet more) weekend. That isn't in and of itself reason to NOT replace the summit triple, but combined with other reasons that make the double an attractice option, I think it isn't a bad idea.

gregnye · May 15, 2018

Jully said:
Feels a lot like Waterville to me (another mountain with q lacking identity once the World Cup left).

Maybe, but I'd say that Waterville is still very much a racer's mountain (wide trails, etc.). Attitash is just icy trails, a confusing lift setup, and trail names like "Ammonoosuc", "Moat" and "wandering skis" that are hard to pronounce or unexciting.

SAM: Peak Resorts Pass Sales Up Thanks to Drifter Pass

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