benski
Active member
Vail has small ski areas in the midwest, to complement there major resorts.
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Vail Purchases Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass
- Thread starter Zand
- Start date
Vail has small ski areas in the midwest, to complement there major resorts.
Small feeder hills for their bigger resorts. Located near big midwestern cities and designed for beginners.
xlr8r
Active member
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Very interesting move that after the fact seems obvious, but I did not seeing it coming beforehand. I guess I thought the Muellers were in it for the long haul. Might shake up my still undetermined plans for tickets/passes next year as $669 for unlimited Stowe, Okemo, Sunapee is a great deal for a Boston area based skier. Wonder if we will see any reaction from Alterra or Boyne, as they now do not compare well with the Epic when it comes to pass pricing. Ikon has already passed its low price deadline, and the New England Pass now seems way overpriced as the Gold is almost twice the price of the Epic Local.
As far as future changes, I think the first thing Vail will do to Okemo is replace one of the South Ridge lifts with a detachable. For Sunapee I wonder if this changes the already established plans of moving lifts around on North Peak.
As far as future changes, I think the first thing Vail will do to Okemo is replace one of the South Ridge lifts with a detachable. For Sunapee I wonder if this changes the already established plans of moving lifts around on North Peak.
sull1102
Member
Lmfao dude you ever go to okemo on the weekends or just weekdays? That place is as bad as Stratton for the snob factor, maybe even worse because at least Stratton has to bring in tons of employees that are relaxed locals. Vail buying okemo makes ALL the sense in the world for corporate and will be viewed as a major moment in the business someday when the whole thing falls apart.
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BenedictGomez
Well-known member
This is great news.
I'm all for MTN adding more debt to its' balance sheet by purchasing crappy hills, thus decreasing the likelihood they'll buy Smuggler's Notch.
I'm all for MTN adding more debt to its' balance sheet by purchasing crappy hills, thus decreasing the likelihood they'll buy Smuggler's Notch.
Yes the Epic Pass is low--for now! Not for long though. Once they have complete control it will be whatever they desire.
Monopolies are never a good thing. Just see Comcast.
Also, I like quality over quantity. I'm willing to pay a couple hundred more dollars for a pass if I don't have to put up with such aggressive rich wannabes from New York in Porsche Cayenne's and Chevy Suburbans thatplay loud music from their bluetooth speakers while skiing.
On the flip side their day ticket prices are 2x higher than most day tickets and (at least in my limited experience) the food / lodging price is as well.
We did a day at Park City last year and IIRC a single slice of pizza was $14 in the lodge. No thanks.
sull1102
Member
Grabbing Sunapee suddenly opens Vail to the Boston market in a big way. Day trip to Sunapee with a couple weekend trips to Okemo or maybe a big trip up to Stowe(most of the Boston market does not view Stowe as an option as it is just too far from anywhere south of the pike. Okemo is perfect for them and they will use it to smother Alterra at Stratton as much as possible and maybe beat them out in the long run. Not to bring it up, buttttttt there's an ultra rich playground about an hour south of Okemo.... Just saying. (In all honesty this deal does help show you the market value a place like Hermitage actually has).
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Yes, day tickets are very expensive. But they are that way to force you to buy the Epic. The food and other services are indeed more expensive. That is to help compensate for the cheaper passes.
Yes, the question will be when they increase prices. Their model has worked though--cheap/modest season pass prices and expensive lodging, lessons, food.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
If you're going to have a such a deep animus & jealousy for the rich, you should at least know your target.
Rich people do not drive Chevy Suburbans.
I dont know about "most", perhaps that's true, but Boston is a big town and I can tell you there are tons of Bostonians who ski Stowe each weekend. Loads of them.
abc
Well-known member
Totally agree.
Okemo is as Vail like without Vail actually owning it. It's more like "Why haven't Vail bought it yet?". The only argument was it's too small. But now that Vail is going down the size chart, Okemo is a perfect target.
slatham
Well-known member
Consumer: Cheaper pass costs and increased ski areas to choose from on one pass is a positive. But do other costs increase (food, bev, lessons, etc)? What does this do to weekend/holiday crowds (key worry of my Stowe friends). Does monopoly power eventually result in increase costs?
And what about the non-pass holder? Does this consolidation effectively remove a large selection of areas from consideration because day ticket prices are so high? And I would expect less package deals and other incentives for the non-pass skier, especially if crowding does become an issue.
Operations: How does this change the operations and character of the mountain? Does it become homogenized? Does the ski season get truncated (Stowe closed April 15th at 100%).
Personnel: Do the new owners remove the long time local employees with people from "corporate". I have not heard corroboration but heard rumors Vail fired several long time Stowe employees this spring. How does this change the operations and character of the mountain?
Local business: Assuming Vail doesn't start building lodging (Note that lodging at Stowe was NOT part of the purchase) I would think increased skier visits would help the local business.
Smaller areas. They could be the losers. Why ski an independent mountain, even if reasonably priced, if you can ski several areas effectively for free (or no incremental cost). Sure, many Epic/Ikon pass holders will surely not stick 100% to the pass areas, but its the trend away from independent areas and toward the "pass" areas that at the margin will hurt.
Personally I could see this fracturing my guys ski group, where a handful of guys are Stowe regulars and hence always want to head out West to a Vail resort. Not sure I am up to staying "Epic" when I don't have the pass.
Time will tell. All I know is I'm staying with the iconic Magic mountain and their epic skiing........
And what about the non-pass holder? Does this consolidation effectively remove a large selection of areas from consideration because day ticket prices are so high? And I would expect less package deals and other incentives for the non-pass skier, especially if crowding does become an issue.
Operations: How does this change the operations and character of the mountain? Does it become homogenized? Does the ski season get truncated (Stowe closed April 15th at 100%).
Personnel: Do the new owners remove the long time local employees with people from "corporate". I have not heard corroboration but heard rumors Vail fired several long time Stowe employees this spring. How does this change the operations and character of the mountain?
Local business: Assuming Vail doesn't start building lodging (Note that lodging at Stowe was NOT part of the purchase) I would think increased skier visits would help the local business.
Smaller areas. They could be the losers. Why ski an independent mountain, even if reasonably priced, if you can ski several areas effectively for free (or no incremental cost). Sure, many Epic/Ikon pass holders will surely not stick 100% to the pass areas, but its the trend away from independent areas and toward the "pass" areas that at the margin will hurt.
Personally I could see this fracturing my guys ski group, where a handful of guys are Stowe regulars and hence always want to head out West to a Vail resort. Not sure I am up to staying "Epic" when I don't have the pass.
Time will tell. All I know is I'm staying with the iconic Magic mountain and their epic skiing........
Don't forget about parking.
FBGM
Well-known member
$14 pizza is a must. They have to pay the high wages of the staff. 1 pizza pie sold must cover all staff for the day. The rest needs to go into Rob kitty Katz pocket.
Killingtime
Active member
Vail stock price is up 6.5% today. Its been ripping the past few years. All those $14 slices of pizza and overpriced parking spots are adding up.
I thought it was odd to put Suburbans and Porsches in the same category too (although Suburbans have become pretty crazy in terms of price, but still not something I'd equate with "rich" people driving...if "rich" people are driving them, those are the ones that don't want to show off driving a fancy foreign luxury car and prefer to just get something that fits their needs)
Thought that was odd too...Stowe is under 4 hours from Boston itself. I would be thrilled with a 4 hour drive to a ski resort like Stowe.
abc
Well-known member
It's summer. It's called the "silly season" for a reason.
Heat gets to people's head. Thinking becomes too difficult. Just shout what comes to the top of head.
I don't take summer posts too seriously. (but then, I don't take any post seriously these days)
Other costs could increase, but a smart consumer can still work around those (eat off mountain, bring your own food, stay at non-mountain-owned lodging, etc). Eventually if the monopoly becomes big enough and competition weakens enough, it could result in further increased costs to the skiing itself though. Will be interesting to keep an eye on that part.
I think this is a valid concern. Although I think the industry in general has been making it more difficult/expensive for non-passholders to participate in the resort. Mega-mergers are one contributing factor, but I think this is an industry "concern" overall.
Good question...I think we need to see if the Stowe earlier than normal closing was an aberration or a trend. Always possible it was just a weird one off timing issue with the way the dates/weekends/calendar fell this year.
Agreed. Even if the resorts themselves offer lodging, if they price it higher that could still drive people to other local businesses instead.
I think there continues to be a demand for "independent" mountains like Magic, Smuggs, Sugarbush, etc. As long as they carve out a niche and offer a quality product and focus on why they're unique and different, I think they will be fine. Sugarbush reported their season pass sales this spring are up over sales last spring. So I think that shows independents still have a place. And based what I read on here about Magic, there certainly seems to be a big demand for the product they are offering as well.
