FBGM
Well-known member
Those praising the good deeds of Vail and are excited about Fail takeovers are the same morons who voted for Trump
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Vail Purchases Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass
- Thread starter Zand
- Start date
crystalmountainskier
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2006
- Messages
- 250
- Points
- 28
There is really only one website for all the resorts. Other than Stowe, which has yet to be switched over to the corporate site design. I read they launched the new WB site with the default measurement units in feet and Fahrenheit and Canadians weren't too pleased.
benski
Active member
amen!
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Who are different from the same morons that ignore the "no political discussion" rule here.
This thread had been going well...
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I fail to see how this is a bad thing for consumers. Vail is simply giving another option, which nobody is forced to partake in. They do not have anything close to a monopoly in the northeast. Claims that they do are absurd. We already have anti-trust laws in place. Most people who criticize big corporations love government. So why aren't you trusting your government to enforce the laws already on the books? Could it be that it really isn't a monopoly? Or do you just love government when they are taking money from big corporations and not yourself?
My one concern is that Vail's downward pressure on prices results in a couple of ski areas closing. Burke, for example, could be hurt by this. A $600 season pass that is good only at Burke all of the sudden seems like a rip-off. And if I was going to purchase a condo, I would be very tempted to purchase a condo at a Vail ski area since my pass would include options out west.
For all of those who are criticizing Vail just because they are a big corporation, a couple of comments:
1) How do you think that they got so big? They are providing a product that consumers are eager to pay for.
2) Vail is far from the first big corporation to get into the ski business. Why pick on just Vail?
3) Don't you WANT companies to spread their risk by owning ski areas in several markets? Or do you actually prefer a company that could go bankrupt if we have a couple of back-to-back bad snow years in the northeast?
My one concern is that Vail's downward pressure on prices results in a couple of ski areas closing. Burke, for example, could be hurt by this. A $600 season pass that is good only at Burke all of the sudden seems like a rip-off. And if I was going to purchase a condo, I would be very tempted to purchase a condo at a Vail ski area since my pass would include options out west.
For all of those who are criticizing Vail just because they are a big corporation, a couple of comments:
1) How do you think that they got so big? They are providing a product that consumers are eager to pay for.
2) Vail is far from the first big corporation to get into the ski business. Why pick on just Vail?
3) Don't you WANT companies to spread their risk by owning ski areas in several markets? Or do you actually prefer a company that could go bankrupt if we have a couple of back-to-back bad snow years in the northeast?
+1 - Great Post.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Agree with this also.
But that's what I'm saying, rich people aren't buying Suburbans for the same reason rich people arent buying Ford Mustangs. Not that there's anything wrong with a Suburban or a Mustang, there isnt, but if you have the means, my point is your price level is considerably higher than those.
It's more nuanced than that; they lack the financial education to understand that when government takes money from big corporations, government is actually taking money from "yourself", simply in a lagging fashion.
We get it. You don't like Vail. It is America and you have other choices.
:lol:
slatham
Well-known member
We've focused on the "consumer" as being a pass holder, which most us are. But most skiers are not pass holders (I would be interested to know the industry breakdown of skier visits between pass holders and ticket buyers). For ticket buyers, the question is how do day tickets prices change? For this segment of the consumer such corporate consolidation may not be beneficial. I am not sure how prices have changed at Stowe, but $124 walk up and $98 advanced online is steep.
sull1102
Member
Seriously? You don't see how this is bad for the consumer BUT you see a possibility of a couple ski areas closing because of this. Sorry that makes no sense at all and just comes off as a selfish "doesn't bother me" attitude. How is it good for the consumer for any business to close? Your profile says you live in the NEK, you think it is good for that region to lose another business? And just cause you like the idea of buying a Vail pass to go out west does not mean that is what everyone thinks. Personally, the West means SQUAT to mean, great I have tickets at mountains I am never going to because I would much rather save money and head back over to the Alps(it is cheaper to fly across the Atlantic than the Mississippi if you know where to look i.e. Norwegian. and then hop on Easyjet or RyanAir).
If Vail was saving Okemo and Sunapee from certain death or both mountains were in a downward trend I would be all for. That is not the case here or at Stowe.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Uh... you do realize that Burke is my home mountain, do you not?
It boils down to this. I am thinking about the average consumer - not just me. You should try thinking of others every now and then. Simply put, Vail is making skiing (more than just a couple of days a year) more affordable to more people - even if they don't go out west. The people who do go out west are subsidizing your pass, and yet you seem to think that you are the victim here.
And the people who only ski a couple of days a year still have a LOT of choices other than Vail. If Burke closes, I will be very sad. But it's not as if Vail will be the only remaining option out there.
As for being cheaper to fly to the Alps, that may be true (although I doubt it) if you have no bags to bring with you. I'm not a fan of going on a ski vacation without bringing a bag or two.
The conversion of a consumer from a day ticket skier to a passholder is EXACTLY what Vail is trying to do. They have pushed the pricepoint on the Epic Pass to the point where it only makes sense for a fair weather skier/rider to buy that pass. Vail wants to get more $$$ and more commitment from this market.
No one ever said anything about them currently having a monopoly on the East Coast. As of right now, 2018, they do not have a monopoly in the east.
However, people who live out in Colorado are (and should be) more concerned. Because there they currently own a lot of mountains.
Right now in colorado they own or run: Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Arapahoe Basin, Crested Butte.
While thats certainly not all the ski areas in Colorado, those are definitely the big ones. It would be like Vail owning, Loon, Killington, Mount Snow, Stratton, Stowe and Okemo on the east coast.
These aren't Whaleback sized hills. Perhaps the best way to compare would be by terrain acreage and not number of resorts--then we could get a better deal of whether it really is a monopoly or not.
And no, I don't "Trust my government to regulate the businesses" Right now the national government is failing in literally every way.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Well at least we aren't resorting to hyperbole. /sarcasm
I am pretty sure that we established that A-Basin is NOT owned or operated by Vail. They DO have a relationship with the Epic Pass like some other areas. That is all.
Smellytele
Well-known member
Still a few big ones out there not owned by Vail. Copper, Aspen , Winter Park and Steamboat
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Until their internal financial modeling suggests they have attained sufficient market share; THEN the Epic Pass price increases are coming.
Oh, the price increases will come......
As it always does; such is the nature of government.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Also Loveland, which was my favorite of the 4 (Arapahoe Basin, Copper Mountain, Loveland, Vail) I visited last year.
Right. When the market becomes saturated, they will have to think of something else.
