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Vail Purchases Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass

gregnye

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http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/vailresorts/tpsp.htm#.WxU4tR-mnp0.facebook

Not really a surprise considering the move to the epic pass. Wonder what this means for the sale of Burke and Jay.

Just what I feared. Skiing is basically an monopoly now. Vail resorts really is the worst thing to happen to this sport.

Colorado locals must be pissed. The list of vail owned resorts there must be longer than non-vail resorts now


And it's not like Vail resorts is adding anything to the industry. They are not reviving abandoned ski areas like Saddleback. No, they are taking areas that already do pretty well and buying them out, overrunning the local communities with increased crowds and people from out of state and the super-rich.
 
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ironhippy

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Just what I feared. Skiing is basically an monopoly now. Vail resorts really is the worst thing to happen to this sport.

It is interesting, the Walmartification of skiing.

At first skiers were pumped, a 500$ pass to how many resorts??
Now it's the exact opposite.

Can Vail keep it going? What happens in X amount of years if Vail fails?
The entire north america ski industry seems to depend on Vail now.
 

gregnye

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It is interesting, the Walmartification of skiing.

At first skiers were pumped, a 500$ pass to how many resorts??
Now it's the exact opposite.

Can Vail keep it going? What happens in X amount of years if Vail fails?
The entire north america ski industry seems to depend on Vail now.

We know that Vail will never fail. If they do they'll just plead innocent to the government for money, kinda like the phone carriers. And I suspect the $500 passes will soon be gone. Once they control enough of the market you'll be forced to pay whatever Robert Katz and the Vail Executives want.

To summarize: The rich get richer, skiing continues to become a more expensive sport, the smaller areas continue to suffer.
 

Vaughn

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No, they are taking areas that already do pretty well and buying them out, overrunning the local communities with increased crowds and people from out of state and the super-rich.

I don't get this take. The local communities economies are largely based on tourism - the folks who own restaurants, inns, etc.. in Ludlow are going to be hurt by more business due to Vail buying Okemo? I've never been to Okemo but I have a hard time believing a mountain that size right off of 91 isn't pulling in a ton of business from people in MA, CT and NY. You make is sound like Vail bought out Magic or something.

I can't see the 'super-rich' turning Ludlow VT into Zermatt or Aspen anytime soon.
 

gregnye

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I don't get this take. The local communities economies are largely based on tourism - the folks who own restaurants, inns, etc.. in Ludlow are going to be hurt by more business due to Vail buying Okemo? I've never been to Okemo but I have a hard time believing a mountain that size right off of 91 isn't pulling in a ton of business from people in MA, CT and NY. You make is sound like Vail bought out Magic or something.

I can't see the 'super-rich' turning Ludlow VT into Zermatt or Aspen anytime soon.

I agree with you that these towns already receive tourism and people from out of state. However the ownership of a resort attracts a certain type of people to it. For example MRG gets hardcore visitors, while Killington might get "party-skiers' and Stowe might attract wealthy people from New York.

A change to Vail resorts might change the demographic in Ludlow. I've been to Vail (the actual mountain) a few times, and the people it attracts are obnoxious "powder-hounds" in porsche cayenne's and not the usual vermont "subuaru local" crowds
 

djd66

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Not sure why people are up in arms about this. I don't ski either area - so not much personal effect on me. But if i did - I would be very happy, as now I can ski multiple resorts on 1 pass. What's wrong with that?
 

FBGM

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Vail likes the nice upscale doin’ good resorts to buy. So peak resorts has nothing to worry about
 

speden

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I wonder if this will trigger Alterra to buy some northeast resorts. I wouldn't mind having a few more northeast areas with unlimited access on the Ikon pass.
 

GregoryIsaacs

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If only Peaks bought one western mountain.... looks like they are all accounted for now!

Where does someone with a Peak Pass ski out west if they want to avoid the mega-conglomerates??!!
 

Zand

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If only Peaks bought one western mountain.... looks like they are all accounted for now!

Where does someone with a Peak Pass ski out west if they want to avoid the mega-conglomerates??!!

Loveland? I think that's it for CO now lol
 

thetrailboss

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Just what I feared. Skiing is basically an monopoly now. Vail resorts really is the worst thing to happen to this sport.

Colorado locals must be pissed. The list of vail owned resorts there must be longer than non-vail resorts now


And it's not like Vail resorts is adding anything to the industry. They are not reviving abandoned ski areas like Saddleback. No, they are taking areas that already do pretty well and buying them out, overrunning the local communities with increased crowds and people from out of state and the super-rich.

Super Rich? The Epic Pass is actually LOWER than most pass products. What they are doing is getting city skiers and riders to subsidize their operations while only skiing maybe 10 days a year.
 

abc

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Colorado locals must be pissed. The list of vail owned resorts there must be longer than non-vail resorts now
Why should Colorado locals care about Vail buying up northeast resorts?

And your rant about the rich getting richer is even harder to deride...

Actually, I know quite a few Colorado locals. They're not pissed in any way. Maybe a few raised eyebrows. That's it. They've been enjoying RMSP or Vail for years. Some have both. Telluride and Crested Butte locals may feel differently, I don't know. But for the Front Rangers, the coming season means they get to take a couple weekender to either Aspen or Crested Butte/Telluride. Not a bad addition.
 
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thetrailboss

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http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/vailresorts/tpsp.htm#.WxU4tR-mnp0.facebook

Not really a surprise considering the move to the epic pass. Wonder what this means for the sale of Burke and Jay.

As much as I am a Burke Homer, I will be the first to admit that a Vail purchase was a huge long shot. When Vail bought Stowe last year they made it clear that they are NOT looking for bargains but instead established brands. Look at their history--they buy resorts that are established big names and good businesses. The idea that they are going to buy a relatively remote and obscure resort that is struggling is just not their MO. Someone mentioned Saddleback. Would you as a Vail advisor even consider that? No. Is it sad? Sure. It is what it is.

I was surprised to hear the announcement. In my mind Vail had gotten pretty big. But then again, the Muellers are probably ready to retire. They had their kid(s) running Crested Butte but the whole operation was a lease-back proposition if I understand it correctly with CNL's successor owning the land.

They are also getting three resorts for the price of two. Sunapee is a lease. Okemo and Sunapee are established brands in the Boston market. Now a Bostonian can have a pass that is good for Okemo, Sunapee, and Stowe. That is a good option.

Will the resorts get more crowded? Yes. I think that they can handle it though. Sunapee only logged 186k skier days last season as opposed to their 250k average.

Some may think this is like ASC. I think it is better. If a New Englander wants a multi-resort pass, one can choose the Sunday River/Sugarloaf/Loon option, the Mount Snow/Crotched/Wildcat/Attitash Option, the Killington/Pico option, or the Okemo/Sunapee/Stowe Option. Pretty good choices.
 

mbedle

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Not sure if I am getting this right, but it looks like not only did they purchase the resorts from Triple Peaks for 82 million, but they are also buying out the underlying leases with Oz Real Estate for 155 million.
 

thetrailboss

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Not sure if I am getting this right, but it looks like not only did they purchase the resorts from Triple Peaks for 82 million, but they are also buying out the underlying leases with Oz Real Estate for 155 million.

Makes sense. They want to have complete control.
 

Zand

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I don't see this meaning much for Okemo as far as sweeping changes. It's already full of huge condos and weekenders from New York. It's certainly a step below Stowe and Stratton in the snob factor but it's not some typical small family run place either.

Sunapee on the other hand is interesting. No condos there. Mainly a daytripper crowd and half the city of Boston is there on holidays (the other half is at Loon). Not much they can do to change it there either.

Well also have to see how season pass sales do now that Killington is on an island in southern VT with no pass connections to anywhere while everyone else except Stratton is hooked into large pass (not including Ikon). We'll see if the majority of people go for the multi mountain pass or if Killington succeeds on its own.
 

thetrailboss

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I don't see this meaning much for Okemo as far as sweeping changes. It's already full of huge condos and weekenders from New York. It's certainly a step below Stowe and Stratton in the snob factor but it's not some typical small family run place either.

Sunapee on the other hand is interesting. No condos there. Mainly a daytripper crowd and half the city of Boston is there on holidays (the other half is at Loon). Not much they can do to change it there either.

Well, IIRC their expansion plan was approved after years of fighting. So Vail might be interested in doing that.
 

benski

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This is screwed up. They are accumulating too much market power and are going to screw skiers. Especially anyone who which will hurt all the newcomers to the sport the most, but also independent ski areas like Magic who need to sell tickets to people who also ski at these mountains.
 
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