2004 Presidential Election Issues

Why?

Hi Uphill Climber:

Here's what the government needs to do in regards to environmental law and regulation: stop gutting it. anyone who's been paying even a small amount of attention has realized that major environmental laws(clean air, water, nepa) are being stripped and declawed. this is troubling in that i suspect it has something to do with that ultra secret energy policy meeting cheney had a couple years ago. this is troubling. since the inception of NEPA under Nixon, a Republican(!), several landmark environmental laws have been created: clean air, water, superfund, etc. what these do is protect the natural resources--air, water, food, animals, trees, minerals, oils, trails, forests--we humans, as animals depend on. what i see is the subversion of these laws by special interests(i.e. energy producers: oil, coal, timber, etc.). what am i asking the government to do? stop gutting landmark environmental regulations. let me give a specific example. under nepa regulations, any proposed development within a publicly held land--be it state, local, or federal--is subject to a public comment period of 180 days. in this comment period, the public--that evil word to republicans-- submit feedback and these are taken into account in the decision to grant such development. under this administration(no other administration has done this) many of these public comment periods have been stripped. they're non-existent, meaning the use of decision as of to the use of public lands is being stripped of the public and being handed to......well, you connect the dots. please connect the dots. so many people fail to do so.

why? because environmental regualtions, though to republicans an impediment to the economy, are a requirement. we need regulations. ever hear of the "tragedy of the commons"? without regulation, individuals or concerned parties, by nature, will seek to maximize their benefits regardless of the impacts on others and, intrinsically, him or herself. this was common in feudal england. natural resources--crops, water ways, trees--were often plundered because there were no enforced regulations or a means of simply stopping people from using everything they possibly could. as a result, feudalism collapsed. resources were plundered, livestock died. trees were cut down willy nilly for timber. look at england now: i challenge you to find a sizeable stand of trees. so they import their timber and paper products at great environmental and economic cost.

also, we have made and are, under the reigning ideology in d.c., making the mistake of believing that that thing called the economy is independet of and seperate from that thing called the environment. it's not. it's interconnected and interdependent. our economy--jobs, products, services--are reliant on our ability to harness and transform natural resources into useable and valueable products. don't you realize that? that steel came from the ground. that starbucks cup came from some tree. that coffee came from some tree. oxygen comes from some tree. i'm not a tree hugger. environmental laws and regulations are meant to provide the means to preserve and conserve the very things on which this thing called and economy is based. let's hope our politicians teach our citizens that.

that's all. have a good day.

I believe the Enviroment and Energy issues are the most important issues, they are the CRITICAL PATH ISSUES over the long haul and which will effect the other topics listed. Due to the continuing loss of manufacturing jobs, and retiring boomers, the next administration must take Healthcare into consideration as well.

My previous tirades on healthcare costs aside, I'd say that the two most important issues to me are the economy and the war on terrorism.

As a parent and (I believe) a responsible citizen, however, I'd say that all of the issues listed are important.

mryan said:

greg, how do we have better health care than any other country on the planet when 40 million americans are uninsured. 100% of swedes are fully insured. but that takes the willlingness to pay taxes and selflessness, two things wholly unattributable to conservatives.

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You live in Mass? If you do I'm assuming you check off the box where you can pay taxes at the higher rate. If not, how much additional do you donate to taxes in order to support the government?

Myself, I think I can spend my money better than the govt.

Oh, and Sweden has a tax burden of 52% of their GNP (as opposed to 29% in the U.S.). You may be willing to double your tax rate for free government health care (do Blood Transfusions come in a generic variety?), but not me.

Oh, and a quick lesson on percentages. I pay a small amount of the tax burden, so I get a small tax break. Billionaires pay a large amount of the tax burden, so they get a larger tax break.

I know I've quoted these IRS numbers before, but let me state them again:

80% of all taxes are paid by the top 20% of all wage earners.
96.03% of all taxes are paid by the top 50% of wage earners.

Do you realize what this means? Half of the nation pays (statistically speaking) all of the taxes. I'm guessing you and I fall into the half that pays 3.97% of the tax burden. Is there any surpise our breaks are small and that the "wealthy" get larger breaks? THEY are the ones who really PAY taxes.

Some graphical representations of the above:




-Stephen

thanks for the percentages lesson, stephen. what your math is off base is here: proportionality. the rich, of course, get more absolute money back in tax breaks, but they get a greater proportion of their taxable income back than do the lower and middle classes. this is a regressive policy. there are tax brackets. the upper classes have had larger cuts, percentage-wise, than have any other tax brackets. also, corporate taxation has fallen drastically. you say yin, i say yang. there is no absolute truth, only multiple truths achieved through a multitude of methods of analysis and perspective. also, i know that the swedes pay 50 something percent of their income to taxes. this does not bother me. it's another way of looking at things. what's more beneficial: recieving more dollar bills from you paycheck or providing for universal health(and therefore the lowest rates of disease, both mental and physical, in the world), a healthy environment and a healthy economy through higher taxes. it's a question of rampant individualism and socialism. do you work only for yourself of for that and the good of society as a whole. i'd like to apsire to greater things than simply dollars on a pay check. call me an idealist. but thans for the lesson and accompanying graphics.

i'd also like to respond to uphill climbers remarks. you are basing your argument in regards to the public comment period on an assumption: that the average person is passionate enough to keep abreast of all local development. the 180 day period is arbitrary, but i think it is useful in that it allows the average american(the average american reads and writes on the 7th grade level, mind you) to recieve the information and to make a comment. yes, there are people who are activists who reply right away, but the majority of people, i would argue, are not activists and actively keeping abreast of local environmental issues. that said, i think that the lesser the amount of comment period, the lesser chance that the average citizen(perhaps the majority of those to be affected) will be able to comment. i could be wrong. and my argument, like yours, may be based on another assumption, but such is the nature of arguing about societal behavior.

Right on uphill. Many people choose a profession based on a number of different variables. If we where not in a capitalist environment I would not work nearly as hard as I do know. Actually I would probably pick an entirely different job. After all where is the incentive.

As far as for the greater good of society, The US is among the most charitable in the world. If you would like to make an impact fine, do it yourself. I donate my time and money to worthy causes and am happy to do so.

However, I NEVER want to give more money to a government that is notorious for waste and in no means can handle any more than it does now. I am sympathetic for all those who need assistance and for whom hard times have fallen upon. Sure, Lets help them out. But the government spooning out more money is not the answer.

The diet this country needs is on Lawyers, Lobbyists and Accountants who cause all these problems.

Thats why I guess I find the whole election process amusing. Both sides are FULL OF CRAP and it is all to obvious.

My Ideal candidate would address the following issues first:
1) designate English as the National Languauge
2) Not give drivers liscences to ILLEGAL aliens
3) finally define ILLEGAL as I seem to be missing something over the last many years altogether
4) Cut down the political process to make it simpler so that everyone can understand it.
5) Create a new law that a Bill is just that a Bill (not a bunch of Bills put together that you could never even guess what is in it by its name. 1 Bill, 1 Idea, Thats it, not all these other add ins which get burried.
6) Introduce accountability to Gov Departments.
7) Enforce the laws we have know before adding any others.
8) Protect the country
9) Educate our children.
10) Hmmm. maybe I take that back. That might be better run by anyone better than the government does. "Leave no child behind" We are going to leave them all behind if we teach them that everyone is a winner and everyone should get an A on the test. Good thinking, maybe we should take away dodgeball too while we are at it. Lets take away EVERYTHING that can motivate them to do great things.

Wow, way off base here and all over the road. Glad I got that one out. Gotta go watch some more of these great campaign adds that probably will just say what the other guy does not do and how he is our saviour.

LiveFreeorDie NH said:

The diet this country needs is on Lawyers, Lobbyists and Accountants who cause all these problems.

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Agree, but aren't most politicians Lawyers or Lobbyists? How do you get them out of the way if they are the ones in office?

Kinda leaves one cynical about the whole process...

Nevertheless, the one thing that I will make sure I do is VOTE, even though I live in MA which makes my vote Democrat regardless of what I put in the ballot box. IMO, anyone who doesn't should not feel like they can complain about who's in office.

The main thing that I hope for this time around is that we don't have to have the Supreme Court pick our next President.

My Ideal candidate would address the following issues first:
1) designate English as the National Languauge
2) Not give drivers liscences to ILLEGAL aliens

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First, I find it ironic that two words are mispelled, but perhaps that is just me. :wink:

If we where not in a capitalist environment I would not work nearly as hard as I do know. Actually I would probably pick an entirely different job. After all where is the incentive.

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Incentive is not always monetary. I realize it is for some, but for others it is physical, emotional, helping others and at times spiritual.

Don't get me wrong...I know/have seen the people for which the comments about "goverment handing out MY money" are directed. At times my ire is directed that way as well. However, I always ask myself, do I want to live that way? The answer is of course no.

Life and time have a funny way of dealing with the people who take advantage of others generosity (both individual/government)...been my
experience anyways.

Anyways, interesting thread and no ill will intended nor percieved.

Peace.

This is for the Republicans...

On a tour of Texas, the Pope took a couple of days off to visit the coastal area for some sightseeing. He was cruising along the sea wall on Galveston Isle in his Pope-mobile when suddenly he notices a frantic commotion just off shore.

There was John Kerry struggling frantically to free himself from the jaws of a 25-foot shark. As the Pope watched, horrified, a speedboat came racing up with two men aboard. One of the men, President George W. Bush quickly fired a harpoon into the shark's side while Dick Cheney reached out and pulled the bleeding, semi-conscious John Kerry from the water. Then using (autographed Round Rock Express) baseball bats, the two heroes beat the shark to death and hauled it into the boat.

Immediately the Pope shouted and summoned them to the beach. "I give you my blessings for your brave actions," he told them. "I heard that there was some bitter hatred between President Bush and John Kerry, but now I have seen with my own eyes that this is not true."

As the Pope drove off, President Bush asked Dick "Who was that?"

"It was the Pope," Dick replied. "He is in direct contact with God and has all of God's wisdom."

"Well," President Bush said, "he may have access to God's wisdom, but he doesn't know anything about shark fishing. How's the bait holding up?"

No ill will intended, I thought the thread needed a laugh...

i, too, do not want to work for my money simply to have it taken away and given to those who refuse to work. this, however, is quite an oversimplification. and communism is anything but taxes. communism entails government ownership of the means of production. this, i do not advocate. what i do advocate is paying taxes: these are essential to a civilized and healthy society.

anyway, who really cares. kerry's going to win anyway. and when he does, i'm going to have a huge going-away party for W.

later

mryan said:

kerry's going to win anyway. and when he does, i'm going to have a huge going-away party for W.

later

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Are A-Z Forum Members invited? :wink:

Loved the shark fishing story.

A great laugh.

Thanks for posting it Charlie!


I call it good natured fun!!