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For and aft balance - a boot fitting report.

wa-loaf

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I went to Concord on Saturday and had a fitting Jeff for my new boots. Jeff is a great guy and I learned a lot from him. He even spotted that I had sprained my ankle 20 years ago.

I found out that my left leg is 1/2 inch shorter than the right and I need a little lifter put in my boot and about 1/2 degree of canting. He initially thought I was looking at 3 degrees, but once he figured out the leg was short that solved most of the problem.

He also worked with a pair of footbeds I got last year for my old boots. Trimed them to fit and we also widened the forefoot (of the boot) a bit.

The part that suprised me the most, and something I hadn't really put much thought into, was my for/aft balance. I've always liked to put a lot of forward lean into my boots. Anytime I could adjust a spoiler or the cuff to push me forward I would. Turns out that was completely wrong. Jeff had me stand in my boots and he took a plum-bob to my shoulder and checked my balance and I'm too far forward. What happens is all that forward lean also forces your hips out in front of you and you start to exaggerate your motions. It also makes it easier for you to get in the back seat and ride your tails (a little counterintutive).

So we started by taking the spoilers off the back. Still forward. He puts some pads in front of the tongue, still forward. We've done all we can to the cuff, so the next thing is to put some shims under the toes of the boot and this does the trick. I'm standing there flexing my boots and it's gotten much easier, before I would twist a little to get the flex going. Who knew you need to get back to stay out of the back seat. I can't wait to go out and try this all on the slopes.

I learned a few things about bindings too. It turns out that a lot of bindings have some rise built into them as much as 4-5 degrees on some of them. For recreational skiing you only want 0-2 degrees and many racers run 0 - (-2) degrees. It remains to be seen how all of this will really effect my skiing, I'm under doctors (boot doctor :-D) orders to get a few days skiing in on the new boots before we finalize all of the changes.

Anyway I definitely recommend you guys get out and visit with Jeff or someone like him and get your balance checked out.
 
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yeah..."forward lean" is a bit of a misnoner...it also reduces your range of motion, sort of locking you into one spot, limits your ability to stay in balance and move dynamically. First thing I do with a new boot is rip out the cuff spoiler and make sure any fwd lean adjustment is set at the min. A boot that's too stiff will have a similar affect...it limits your ability to flex at the ankle and stay in balance...forcing you to break at the waist and drop your hips back over your heels. Too much ramp angle in a boot...or extra heel lifts can also put you on the backseat.
 

wa-loaf

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I've read a fair amount about bootfitting and hadn't ever come across much info about balance and ramp angle. So it was cool to learn about it. It seems odd, that if being more upright is important, that all the boots come with adjustable spoilers and cuffs that increase forward lean.
 

Skiiboot

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To update a little on fore and aft, Everybody is different some people the spoilers stay in, and some don't. The purpose isn't to stand a person up, but the purpose is to put the body in the strongest possible position in the boots. The purpose is to balance the muscular system in the boots. As for as boots go stiffness is very important, not only does stiffness change with advancement in the sport, but more importantly stiffness can and should change, depending on the range of motion of the ankle. Stiffer isn't always better.

Jeff
 

wa-loaf

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The purpose isn't to stand a person up, but the purpose is to put the body in the strongest possible position in the boots. The purpose is to balance the muscular system in the boots.

Thanks Jeff, I guess I was just talking more about my own personal experience. And that the old forward lean is more aggressive theory is basically false. Naturally, one size doesn't fit all. ;)
 

JimG.

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The ankle is the KEY balancing joint in skiing.

Restrict its' movement too much and you restrict your ability to maintain balance.

I never understood recreational skiers who buy very stiff racing boots or who crank the forward lean to max and then bolt the cuffs.
 
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How much does Dr. Jeff charge for the boot fitting? There's a guy near Philly that I was recommended by a racer friend..but with the boots it could run about a grand...in the past I just wore boots out of the box but I'm thinking about getting a steezier boot..for optimal comfort and performance..
 
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How much does Dr. Jeff charge for the boot fitting? There's a guy near Philly that I was recommended by a racer friend..but with the boots it could run about a grand...in the past I just wore boots out of the box but I'm thinking about getting a steezier boot..for optimal comfort and performance..

Not sure how far DC is for you...but Brian (Erhart I think) at the Ski Center in DC also knows his stuff...he's a C.Ped like Jeff...we took a pedorthics class together in 96.
 

wa-loaf

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On top of whatever you pay for boots you're looking at $100 -150 for footbeds and then another $50 - $200 for balance, stretching and canting depending on what you need. Jeff offers a 10% discount for AZers.
 
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You can find certified fitters here:
http://bootfitters.com/FIND_SHOP.htm

One caveat...just because a shop isn't on that list, doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. The "America's Best Bootfitters" isn't an independant agency that goes around and tests/evaluates expertise and then awards a certification...its a bit of a marketing creation from the guys who run Masterfit Enterprises. The shops listed have sent at least one employee to a Masterfit U "Master" training session and they've also paid to be a part of the ABB promotions. Don't get me wrong, the shops that are on there deserve to be on there and have knowledgeable fitters on staff...but just because a shop isn't on there doesn't mean they can't fit a boot. Stan and Dan's in NConway, NH, Jack Frost at Sunday River, Basin at Killington, are just a few examples of shops with great boot-fitting knowledge and reputations that have not opted to pay to join ABB.
 

wa-loaf

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One caveat...just because a shop isn't on that list, doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. The "America's Best Bootfitters" isn't an independant agency that goes around and tests/evaluates expertise and then awards a certification...its a bit of a marketing creation from the guys who run Masterfit Enterprises. The shops listed have sent at least one employee to a Masterfit U "Master" training session and they've also paid to be a part of the ABB promotions. Don't get me wrong, the shops that are on there deserve to be on there and have knowledgeable fitters on staff...but just because a shop isn't on there doesn't mean they can't fit a boot. Stan and Dan's in NConway, NH, Jack Frost at Sunday River, Basin at Killington, are just a few examples of shops with great boot-fitting knowledge and reputations that have not opted to pay to join ABB.

I just put it up there because I don't know any shops in PA. I figure it's a good starting point and I don't think he really wants to drive up VT or NH for bootfitting. He can probably find better recommends on the PA ski board anyway.
 
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I just put it up there because I don't know any shops in PA. I figure it's a good starting point and I don't think he really wants to drive up VT or NH for bootfitting. He can probably find better recommends on the PA ski board anyway.
I just wanted to point out that simply because a shop isn't on there doesn't mean they can't fit a boot. Like I said, the guy Brian at the Ski Center in DC is a C.Ped like Jeff, but his shop doesn't participate in the ABB program so they're not listed.
 

Skiiboot

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I agree with the fact than there are other very good bootfitters that aren't on the ABB list. Getting on the ABB list isn't all about money, making the list isn't that easy. The store must send a member to masterfit at least every two years. Also in the last year or so stores are starting to be held accountable for the work that is done, it has gone as far as stores have been dropped from the program. The reasoning behind attending masterfit isn't to suck money out of shops, but to keep the shops up to date with new things going with companies, and new products. For the amount of work that is done and the places that we travel to for masterfit, the company doesn't make all that much money. The program that is put on is very reasonable. If fitters can find ways of staying current, I don't care how they do it or where. Things are always changing, and you as the consumer should want fitters to got to some sort CEU's. Also Masterfit is CEU's for C-Peds for the price it's cheap points.

Jeff
 

JimG.

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Boots are the only piece of ski equipment..I don't plan on buying online..

I shopped mine online, but I bought them through my shop. He's a Garmont dealer and it allowed me to test fit because he could buy a few pair (which he sells anyway). Then he made footbeds and fitted them for me.

Keith Holmquist at The Pro in Hunter.

Boots are the key to a good skiing life. Skis can be made to function properly with physical or athletic adjustments, but boots have to fit.
 
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