how often do you wax

Marc said:

Well, the amount of thinking one puts into a certain subject depends on the level of interest and the potential benefits I guess. It's certainly rare that I'm accused of thinking too much. And I agree that what you're doing makes you happy, then by all means continue. I'm trying to educate myself here and also further the discussion so that we all might become more knowledgable. I can't imagine anyone would think ill of that goal.

If you want me to stop asking questions, then I'll respect your request, but if not, I'm curious to find out where you learned what you know about about ski base material and what you've written so far. I'm honestly not trying to be an ass, I'm just curious. I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.

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Marc, I'm not bothered by the questions. Not at all.
Where do I get my knowledge?
Some from the beginnings of trial and error.
Some from a friend who worked in a ski shop.
A lot from asking questions, and really paying attention to the shop pros when I took my skis in for work.
Some, but not much from reading ski mags
TONS, from Alpinord (Terry) on Epicski.
He has really amp'ed up the Ski tuning forum area on Epic and is eager to answer questions gallore. Very knowledgeable. He is one of the owners of Slidewright.

Ask away! If I dont know, I'll try to find out!

Oh well screw taking them for a tune and wax then until someone can post something scientific that it will indeed help the bases in the long run.

This is kinda like debating on when to change the oil in your car....

Marc said:

Oh come on, is curiosity really such a bad thing? We should all strive to become more knowledgeable, which means asking more questions. And not accepting at face value what wax companies and ski shops tell us, since they're not exactly unbiased sources.

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Did you ever spray Pam cooking spray on your sled when you were a kid?
Sometimes fun stuff is just that simple.

Trekchick said:

Severine, its more about the longevity of the bases before it becomes necessary to grind than it is about feel. If you clean your ski bases and keep a good quality coat of wax on them, you'll avoid base burn,which means you will not likely have to do a grind for a looooong time.

I use a stone to touch up burrs on my edges but I dont' tune them thoroughly very often because, IMHO it takes a lot of material off. Once or twice a year at most for tuning(outside of the basic edge clean up)

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At least my tuning frequency isn't in question then. :lol: I'll admit that lack of time and space just make it easier to ignore waxing. Nowhere in our tiny apartment to do it ourselves, and no time to tackle a task like that even if I had space. (Although I'm sure all my time on AZ doesn't help in the time department .)

Marc said:

I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.

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One of the many ways you're like a 3-year-old, Marc.

Trekchick said:

Did you ever spray Pam cooking spray on your sled when you were a kid?
Sometimes fun stuff is just that simple.

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Makes me think of that scene in Christmas Vacation when Clark waxes up that saucer. LOL! :lol:

o3jeff said:

Oh well screw taking them for a tune and wax then until someone can post something scientific that it will indeed help the bases in the long run.

This is kinda like debating on when to change the oil in your car....

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I think Brian does that even less often than he has our skis waxed. :roll: We won't go there....

severine said:

Makes me think of that scene in Christmas Vacation when Clark waxes up that saucer. LOL! :lol:....

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Exactly!!!
Can you imagine if we'd had these high tech waxes back when we had our sleds as kids?
Fun Stuff!

Severine, if you want something simple you can do in a small place, look into the paste wax's.
Like the one on Slighwright here
Or the Swix version, which I've used with some success also.

They just smear on and you rub them out with a plastic brush or a scotch pad, and head for the hill.
Quick and easy way to keep the skis sliding between hard wax applications.
A tub of this paste wax goes a loooong way.

Trekchick said:

Marc, I'm not bothered by the questions. Not at all.
Where do I get my knowledge?
Some from the beginnings of trial and error.
Some from a friend who worked in a ski shop.
A lot from asking questions, and really paying attention to the shop pros when I took my skis in for work.
Some, but not much from reading ski mags
TONS, from Alpinord (Terry) on Epicski.
He has really amp'ed up the Ski tuning forum area on Epic and is eager to answer questions gallore. Very knowledgeable. He is one of the owners of Slidewright.

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That's great if that's enough for you. I just want my information to come with someone who can explain the "why" as well as the "what." Trial and error will give you answers when the results are obvious, like which wax glides best under what conditions....

Answers to questions without immediatley discernable results I'd prefer to be answered by someone formally edjucated in the subject. How do you know polyethylene has pores? If it is an extremely hydrophobic material, such as it is, how could it absorb and solid paritculate like dirt which is much bigger by several orders of magnitude than a molecule of water? If PE is nearly 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel (from wikipedia) why would snow roughen it at all? ...Unless you might think steel would be roughened by snow. I tend to think not.

Can you tell me exactly what happens to the material when it gets "base burn"?

Why is it necesary to "structure" (aka, sand) ones base and how much difference does it make? Can anyone quantify it? Has there been any controlled, neutral testing done to support anyone's opinion on the matter?

I think if people want to wax for better glide, if that matters to them, that's great. Sharpen the edges for better hold on hard snow and ice? Makes perfect sense. Lots of other stuff I read about bases just doesn't make sense. The materials they use (either UHMWPE or HDPE) are not mystery materials. We know a lot about PE and its properties. At least in the case of HDPE, it's the same stuff milk jugs are made from (in case anyone didn't know).

UHMWPE is used to make sails, spectra (dyneema), bullet proof vests, artificial joints, etc. It has a coefficient of friction on par with teflon, 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel, almost twice as abrasion resistant as stainless steel. Extremely non reactive. Self lubricating and wear resistant. Not especially resistant to high temperature. Resistant to stress cracking. It's a thermoplastic meaning it can melt to liquid and return to solid with experiencing a chemical change. Typically sheets like those made for ski bases are sintered.

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....

Marc said:

At least in the case of HDPE, it's the same stuff milk jugs are made from (in case anyone didn't know).

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Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases? :-o

wa-loaf said:

Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases? :-o

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You could if your bases were HDPE, absolutely. Most skis that are not extemely cheap use UHMWPE, for which P-tex is just a trade name. I don't know if HDPE would bond to UHMWPE or not... it might actually. From what I gather, the difference between the two is a result of the lenght of the polyethylene chains, and the chains are held to each other by the Van der Walls forces (weak, molecule to molecule bonds, the reason water has surface tension and aligns as a crystal when a solid). It probably just wouldn't be as strong as using UHMWPE.

Marc said:

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....

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It gives me something to do in the basement.... you know get away from the love ones


I agree with Mark on this one, I've been keeping my rock skis in the car all season long...up to the warmest days in spring, no waxing just keeping the edges sharp, no problems yet. My hidden motive is to ruin those skis and start another for the rocks but those suckers are tuff.

Marc said:

That's great if that's enough for you. I just want my information to come with someone who can explain the "why" as well as the "what." Trial and error will give you answers when the results are obvious, like which wax glides best under what conditions.............................

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....

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Well, alrighty then!
If that floats your boat, then you just go right ahead and study the quantum physics of ski materials and the infinite possibilities of things that can effect the bases. While you're getting a crease in your forehead, I'll be getting some slope time.

Trekchick said:

....study the quantum physics of ski materials and the infinite possibilities of things that can effect the bases.

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Aw come on.... its the study of quantum mechanics in the discipline of material science. Without this knowledge we would not be talking to each other on cheap pcs.

BTW, gotta to do something while I'm scanning snow reports.

jack97 said:

Aw come on.... its the study of quantum mechanics in the discipline of material science. Without this knowledge we would not be talking to each other on cheap pcs.

BTW, gotta to do something while I'm scanning snow reports.

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Okay.
Meanwhile, I'll be putting pam cooking spray on my flying saucer and see you at the bottom. Well maybe not because I'm not waiting for you!

Marc said:

I've still yet any explain to me exactly what "base burn" is.

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It's like rug burn but without a lover.

Trekchick said:

While you're getting a crease in your forehead, I'll be getting some slope time.

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Actually you will tuning your skis.

wa-loaf said:

Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases? :-o

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Okay here's what I found out!!!
Its not Milk Jugs at all............Its recycled sewer pipe.

Trekchick said:

Okay here's what I found out!!!
Its not Milk Jugs at all............Its recycled sewer pipe.

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Well that puts a whole new perspective on it!

Thinking I may need to pick up some of that wax after all... Skis were a bit sluggish last time I was out. Then again, I have no idea where I can do this... Dropping them off for a tune and wax is just so much easier.

Trekchick said:

Okay here's what I found out!!!
Its not Milk Jugs at all............Its recycled sewer pipe.

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severine said:

Well that puts a whole new perspective on it!

Thinking I may need to pick up some of that wax after all... Skis were a bit sluggish last time I was out. Then again, I have no idea where I can do this... Dropping them off for a tune and wax is just so much easier.

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Makes perfect sense, No?
That's why I ski like sh*#!!!:lol:

As for waxing your own skis. Its fairly easy, once you do it, you'll wonder why you didn't do it yourself long ago.
IF you pick up paste wax, you can just put it on, let it dry and use a scotch pad to buff it out. takes minimal time and space.
If you use hard wax, use and old iron, melt wax dripping on your bases, run an iron over the bases until its spread evenly. Make sure the iron is hot enough to melt the wax but not so hot that you feel heat through the ski.
when the wax is fairly cool, scrape with a plastic scraper and buff out with a scotch pad.
It will cost you $2. instead of $25 to wax your own.

Trekchick said:

Makes perfect sense, No?
That's why I ski like sh*#!!!:lol:

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Yeah, that's my excuse and I'm sticking by it! :lol:

Not that I mind slowing down too much since speed is my nemesis right now... but it's time. I'll probably pick up a rub on wax since that's more likely to actually get done.

This does explain why Brian was trying to steal my iron one time, though...

I wax at the beginnig of the season, sometime in the middle, before big trips, and at the end for storage. really, it's more for teh Zen aspect than anything else, also a good time to just check all the bits and make sure a binding's not hanging on by a single screw or something. Recently learned the joys of P-tex. Much easier than I feared, and after last season's conditions and pine cone bashing in Italy, my bases needed some help.

Even if HDPE bonds to UMHPEWQHASNMAKS or whatever, I don't think burning milk jugs will give the desired effect. In my experience, burning the plastic from milk jugs or soda bottles is a lot sootier than a P-tex candle, and soot is not your friend when trying to get things to stick.

severine said:

I'll probably pick up a rub on wax since that's more likely to actually get done.

This does explain why Brian was trying to steal my iron one time, though...

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What's going on? My wife trained me years ago to tune all the skis....


If you're (or the sig other) going to tune skis, get the right type of iron, it should have no wholes, a basic flat surface. Some have adjustable heat so that you can figure out the right temp to melt the wax without overheating the base. You can get this stuff on the net as well as other supplies. Best time to get it is at the end of the season.

I only wax at the of the season and I will slop over the edges to prevent rust.