Auto tires for winter driving

I have owned 4 cars, fwd and awd and tried a few various brands of snow tires and my thinking about this topic has evolved to something like this.

AWD brings very little to the safety story. It doesn't help you brake or turn any faster or any sharper when you are trying to avoid an accident, but it does let you accelerate and climb better in reduced traction situations like snow.

So for absolute snow driving safety - not getting into an accident or skidding off a road kind of duty: FWD with snow tires is hands down, no questions asked, safer than an AWD car on non-snow tires. Anyone that will argue that an AWD car with all season tires will brake and generate better lateral traction better than a FWD with snows is either dumb or very uniformed and you should have their head examined.

For dependable snow travel with lots of hills, steeps, deep snow and climbing: AWD with a good set of all-seasons might be better than a snow tire FWD.

So then it becomes a balancing act - do you want basic point a to point b safe transportation in snow on average public roads, or will you need the car to climb a scary drive way or get you to work before the snow plows came out, even if it reduces emergency handling type of safety.

I chose the best of both worlds. A medium size wagon with good ground clearance, a basic 4wd system and solid snow tires. If I had to give AWD or snow tires up, I would give AWD up in a heartbeat. Safety first... so what if I get to the ski hill a bit later. At least I got there.

While my good buddy kore makes a great point, and is the reason often see AWD and 4WD vehicles off the road because the idiot driver is clueless in this regard, don't over look the virtue of being able to accelerate to avoid an accident as well. Perhaps not an overrulling factor, but it is at least a mitigating one...

koreshot said:

I have owned 4 cars, fwd and awd and tried a few various brands of snow tires and my thinking about this topic has evolved to something like this.

AWD brings very little to the safety story. It doesn't help you brake or turn any faster or any sharper when you are trying to avoid an accident, but it does let you accelerate and climb better in reduced traction situations like snow.

So for absolute snow driving safety - not getting into an accident or skidding off a road kind of duty: FWD with snow tires is hands down, no questions asked, safer than an AWD car on non-snow tires. Anyone that will argue that an AWD car with all season tires will brake and generate better lateral traction better than a FWD with snows is either dumb or very uniformed and you should have their head examined.

For dependable snow travel with lots of hills, steeps, deep snow and climbing: AWD with a good set of all-seasons might be better than a snow tire FWD.



So then it becomes a balancing act - do you want basic point a to point b safe transportation in snow on average public roads, or will you need the car to climb a scary drive way or get you to work before the snow plows came out, even if it reduces emergency handling type of safety.

I chose the best of both worlds. A medium size wagon with good ground clearance, a basic 4wd system and solid snow tires. If I had to give AWD or snow tires up, I would give AWD up in a heartbeat. Safety first... so what if I get to the ski hill a bit later. At least I got there.

Click to expand...

Dont snow tires perform horrible on dry pavement?

This is very strange...

Every time I try to open this thread, this window keeps popping up:

Greg said:

Every time I try to open this thread, this window keeps popping up:

Click to expand...

I kinda like talking about this stuff. I learned a few things. Not like when I watch your ski vids.

Greg said:

Every time I try to open this thread, this window keeps popping up:

Click to expand...

Kore gets the same thing whenever he opens a thread about bump skiing.

tjf67 said:

I learned a few things. Not like when I watch your ski vids.

Click to expand...

Not surprising really. After all, you do primarily ski Iceface and we all know there are no bumps there...

Greg said:

Not surprising really. After all, you do primarily ski Iceface and we all know there are no bumps there...

Click to expand...

Speaking of bumps I was out the last couple on nights on wilderness building bumps for the competitions comming to town. I think you call it seeding. You should come up and try them out might be a little steeper than you are used to.

tjf67 said:

Speaking of bumps I was out the last couple on nights on wilderness building bumps for the competitions comming to town. I think you call it seeding. You should come up and try them out might be a little steeper than you are used to.

Click to expand...

I'm sure. I do suck at steep bumps. Working on it though. Are you competing?

Greg said:

I'm sure. I do suck at steep bumps. Working on it though. Are you competing?

Click to expand...

In January, the scene changes to Whiteface and the Olympic Jumping Complex for three freestyle skiing events scheduled for Jan. 18-20. The International Ski Federation as well as the U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association will conduct World Cup moguls on the Wilderness trail at Whiteface Jan. 18 and 20, while aerial skiing will occur on Jan. 19 at the jumping site in Lake Placid.

I think not.

tjf67 said:

I think not.

Click to expand...

Oh. My bad. You speak with such authority on things, I assumed you were a pro. Sorry about that.

Greg said:

Oh. My bad. You speak with such authority on things, I assumed you were a pro. Sorry about that.

Click to expand...

What you take as authority is probably just bad grammer. T
Lighten up francis

tjf67 said:

Dont snow tires perform horrible on dry pavement?

Click to expand...

Not al of them. I recently installed a set of performance Dunlop wintersport M3 snow tires on my Legacy GT and they handle better than the crappy Bridgestone RE92s all-seasons that the car came with. This wasn't due to age either, the Bridgestones only had 6000 miles on them. Granted with the "performance" snows you give up a little in the deep snow but they're much better on dry roads.

tjf67 said:

Dont snow tires perform horrible on dry pavement?

Click to expand...

Most snow tires do suck on dry pavement. This particularly the case for the heavy duty deep snow ones. The blizzaks I have on right now certainly suck in the dry, livable but not very good. But I have tried the Dunlop M3 and been really impressed with its dry pavement performance while still being very sure footed in snow. Performance winter tires as pretty solid in the dry generally speaking.

Been hearing excellent things about the snow performance for the Conti Extreme contact. A good compromise all season. Will never be as good as a dedicate snow tire, but good middle ground.

Marc said:

Kore gets the same thing whenever he opens a thread about bump skiing.

Click to expand...

Amen. Although I do appreciate the skill involved.

Its like watching knitting... takes mad skill but boring as hell to watch.

What?!?

koreshot said:

Its like watching knitting... takes mad skill but boring as hell to watch.

Click to expand...

Okay. Now you crossed the line. :???:

Boring as hell to watch?



Of course, that's not, nor ever will be representative of anyone that would ever appear in any of my cheesy little vids... :lol:



Back to your boring tire discussion...

Greg said:

Okay. Now you crossed the line. :???:

Boring as hell to watch?



Of course, that's not, nor ever will be representative of anyone that would ever appear in any of my cheesy little vids... :lol:



Back to your boring tire discussion...

Click to expand...

Ok, that was pretty cool and probably is more fun than knitting. I think those awesome airs were a big reason for that though... especially the second one. Is it me or was that guy not spending a whole lot of time with his ski touching the snow? I thought the basic principle of proper bump skiing is good ski to snow contact at all times.


Edit: nevermind. I watched it a few more times and actually there seems to be a lot of contact.

I have the ContiExtremes on my Audi and they are fantastic...keep em on all year..next best thing to a dedicated snow tire...great dry traction (sucks to corners like glue) great in the rain....very happy with them .... this is my 2nd pair on the Audi

WJenness said:

I'm not going to get into the tires debate other than to say this is my first winter with AWD (bought an 2004 A4 3.0Q M6 in May) and thus far, I love it...

But I am going to observe... From an A6 to a Hyundai Sonata? Ouch... I'm sorry man.

I can't see myself buying a non-Audi at this point.

I'm a fanboy... I admit it.

-w

Click to expand...

No ouch at all. There are luxories in the Audi I certainly miss, but overall, I'll take the 2007 Sonata over the 2000 A6 anyday. I'll give the Audi the edge in handling, but the Hyundai absolutely SMOKES the Audi in terms of off the line acceleration or passing speed, gets a solid 8 mpg better and is more spacious.

Now, I'd certainly take a 2007 Audi over the 2007 Sonata, perhaps even a 2004 Audi as well. That all said, I can't afford a fifty thousand dollar car, which is what a new A6 runs. Hell a 2004 A6 with 50K miles on it probably would've cost more than the Sonata new.

The big thing for me was value. I wanted a new car with a solid reputation that I wasn't going to have to worry about for a long time. The 10 year, 100K warranty did it for me. I tested a Camry, Accord, Altima and the Sonata. The Hyundai easily performed as well as the others and was four grand cheaper for the same features.

Audi's horrendous reputation for service issues after 100K miles lead me away from the brand. Last October, I had 92,000 miles on it when ding, air bag light goes on and I hit a curb with a tire all in the same week. I take it in and after the Audi dealership charges me $150 to diagnose the problem, I'm not it will be $1400 to replace the air bag computer, $650 for new tires AND I needed the control arms replaced, which was another $400. $2450

Any of that crap (aside from tires) happens now, it's covered.

Audi is a great car, don't get me wrong, but they along with all other German vehicles are for rich people, which isn't me.

I'm sure I'll get an AWD car again, but it will be a Subaru when I do.

Marc said:

Kore gets the same thing whenever he opens a thread about bump skiing.

Click to expand...

Win.

koreshot said:

So for absolute snow driving safety - not getting into an accident or skidding off a road kind of duty: FWD with snow tires is hands down, no questions asked, safer than an AWD car on non-snow tires. Anyone that will argue that an AWD car with all season tires will brake and generate better lateral traction better than a FWD with snows is either dumb or very uniformed and you should have their head examined.

Click to expand...

The only arguement that could be made, is that most AWD cars have VDC which would play a HUGE part in someone avoiding and accident or skidding off the road. Just sayin';-)