Auto tires for winter driving

billski · Jan 3, 2008

I picked up a used AWD sedan which now needs tires. I can only buy one set of four tires at this time, so I'm thinking about some 4-season tires that can last until next winter, then get a set of winter tires at that time, to spread out the expense.

Any comments on ski-adventure-driving on 4-season tires on an AWD sedan? My daily commute is 50 miles round trip on the highway. I will be doing trips to the Green (Stowe, Bush, Mt. Snow, Middlebury, MRG) and White mountains, and usually drive only on plowed, but occasionally snow-packed roads. Sometimes find myself in a storm for a few hours, though I usually wait it out or get there early, so it's only a few miles.

My bud has an AWD subie and for five years has driven weekly to Stowe, up the steep Notchbrook road (where I got stuck in my FWD) with only 4-season tires. He's NEVER bought snows.

Having said that, I just splurged for a set of Blizzaks for my wife's car and just love it. It's just not in the cards for two more sets and I don't want to drive winter tires all summer.

Tire brand/model suggestions also appreciated.

Thanks!

bigbog · Jan 3, 2008

...$.01

My $.01 is that I think marketing labels can be thrown out the window... I'm on a ProComp All-Terrain 4wd tire that's great for snow & ice. Other than these I avoid anything labeled "All-Terrain" like the plague, but these are terrific...the design is there!...that's all that matters in winter...along with some added weight over the axles/wheels. Deep mud (Spring/Summer in the woods) is another matter...

riverc0il · Jan 4, 2008

Snow tires are the way to go if you drive into ski country often, especially if you like to drive during or following a storm. More important than AWD, IMO. Studs are unnecessary for your needs, so don't bother with them. If you put the tires on as late as possible and take them off ASAP once winter is done and switch over to regular tires for the non-snowy months, a solid three years of life is a good bet for the winter tread and then you have yourself a pair of all seasons for a while longer.

I think the upper end snow tires such as the Blizzaks are over kill for most drivers that do not drive on snow frequently. This season, I splurged for Michelin X-Ice which have been phenomenal, but I have a light weight FWD vehicle and drive in snow a lot, especially chasing storms. Last season I had Copper Weathermasters which worked well but were not top of the line. My Significant Other has whatever Dunlop's snows are and they don't seem very impressive but certainly waaay better than all seasons in the snow. The lower to mid price range tires would probably be fine for your needs.

WWF-VT · Jan 4, 2008

I have a 2001 Audi A6 Quattro wagon that has done well in VT on Michelin all season tires. For extra capability this winter have put on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport 3D's which are good on dry pavement, highway driving but give the extra capability in the snow.

mlctvt · Jan 4, 2008

I agree with Riv on this one. Do yourself a favor and get a second set of rims with snow tires mounted. Check out sites like Tirerack.com or discounttiredirect.com, they sell low cost rims for most cars. Their prices berat all local sources. Both my wife and I drive AWD Subarus and we both run snow tires in winter and summer only tires in the other seasons. The extra traction is really needed when driving in storms on the way to skkiing. Either Car and Driver or Road & Track ran a story a while back that showed tires are much more important than AWD. They tested cars that were available in both 2WD and AWD formats and in every instance the 2WD cars with snow tires mounted outperformed the AWD with all season tires in snow or ice covered roads. Even rear wheel drive cars with snow tires beat the AWD with all season tires!

tjf67 · Jan 4, 2008

I use goodrich long trail AT tire. They are not bad on the high way and they are fine in the snow and ice. I have a territory in the adirondacks and travel 400 miles around the high peaks each week and never have problems. Any new tire will be fine its when the treads get down to about 5k miles left when you have the problems. Snow tires are a nice luxury but not necessary now a days with the amount of plowing that is done. Plus they ride like crap in anything other than snow and the highways eat them up

tjf67 · Jan 4, 2008

mlctvt said:
I agree with Riv on this one. Do yourself a favor and get a second set of rims with snow tires mounted. Check out sites like Tirerack.com or discounttiredirect.com, they sell low cost rims for most cars. Their prices berat all local sources. Both my wife and I drive AWD Subarus and we both run snow tires in winter and summer only tires in the other seasons. The extra traction is really needed when driving in storms on the way to skkiing. Either Car and Driver or Road & Track ran a story a while back that showed tires are much more important than AWD. They tested cars that were available in both 2WD and AWD formats and in every instance the 2WD cars with snow tires mounted outperformed the AWD with all season tires in snow or ice covered roads. Even rear wheel drive cars with snow tires beat the AWD with all season tires!

I will take my awd with at tires and run circles around any car with 2wd with snow tires. They probaly had my mom in the awd vehicle and tony stewart with 2wd snow tires.

Marc · Jan 4, 2008

Yeah, traction depends on SO many variables, it really is meaningless to make a blanket statement like "tires are more important than AWD."

It is also imprudent to claim that any 2WD vehicle with any snow tire is better than any AWD vehicle with any all season. I can think of many combinations where'd I'd bet a lot (and I'm not a betting man) on the AWD vehicle.

This is coming from a big winter tire proponent as well, but the smartest thing to do is to fingure out what time of conditions you drive in most often, and then determine what capability suits your cost and performance requirements best. The biggest problem is most people tend not to thoroughly educate themselves before pidgeon holing themselves in an expensive solution that was either overkill, or worse, completely lacking.

I was skeptical of the all season's that came on the Outback I just bought, but so far I haven't been able to get it stuck on a hill, stopped, in snow slightly deeper than the ground clearance of the car.

Really the best thing to do to educate yourself is to drive a little in conditions that are less then extreme and determine what you need based on that. Unfortunately a lot of people are very blunt and unreceptive to their car's feedback or are poor drivers to begin with.

riverc0il · Jan 4, 2008

tjf67 said:
I will take my awd with at tires and run circles around any car with 2wd with snow tires. They probaly had my mom in the awd vehicle and tony stewart with 2wd snow tires.

I will take that challenge. It isn't about "running circles" around other cars, it is about getting to the mountain safely. Make no doubt about it, AWD with snow tires trumps all and 2WD with snow tires still gets a little squirrely in the back end. But you couldn't talk me into AWD without snow tires over 2WD with snow tires in the winter.

riverc0il · Jan 4, 2008

I agree with the suggestions, such as Marc's that not all conditions are the same and in some conditions AWD could easily trump 2WD with snows. But overall, for those doing a lot of snow travel, I think the snows are more important overall.For types that didn't drive during snow storms constantly during the winter, AWD without snows probably are fine, pending there is no over confidence in the AWD. I actually need reality checks with over confidence in my snows.

TC · Jan 4, 2008

you can always try and buy a used pair of winter snows for cheep money. Get them mounted at a reasonable garage and there you go. I just bought a used set of 4 (one season) for $120.00. I thought it was a deal. Tires can be expensive, you have to watch ou that you dont over pay. Snow tires work great they give you that lateral traction and friction that you need if you get cought in a storm. Just keep your eye out. What size are you looking for?

deadheadskier · Jan 7, 2008

riverc0il said:
I will take that challenge. It isn't about "running circles" around other cars, it is about getting to the mountain safely. Make no doubt about it, AWD with snow tires trumps all and 2WD with snow tires still gets a little squirrely in the back end. But you couldn't talk me into AWD without snow tires over 2WD with snow tires in the winter.

Agreed. I drove a 2000 Audi A6 last winter with all seasons and while it wasn't horrible in the snow, it did not perform as well as front wheel drive cars I have had in the past with decent snow tires.

snoseek · Jan 7, 2008

riverc0il said:
I will take that challenge. It isn't about "running circles" around other cars, it is about getting to the mountain safely. Make no doubt about it, AWD with snow tires trumps all and 2WD with snow tires still gets a little squirrely in the back end. But you couldn't talk me into AWD without snow tires over 2WD with snow tires in the winter.

You are sooo right. I drive a little civic with snows into the mountains almost every day, especially when its snowing, and have yet to have any problems. I used to have 4wd, but got rid of it because of the crappy mileage. I spent a grand total of 160$ for cheap snows at sam's and they get me through the most horrific driving conditions, as long as the road is open I'm good. I get well over 40 mpg, I will never own awd or 4wd again.

ALLSKIING · Jan 7, 2008

Marc said:
I was skeptical of the all season's that came on the Outback I just bought

Did you sell the Audi S4?

SKIQUATTRO · Jan 8, 2008

i just picked up the Volvo XC70 (2008) and its got all season Conti 4x4 contacts.....I think i'm going to put some Conti Extremes on it...i have those on my Audi and they are a great tire! (not a dedicated snow--dont need it here on LI)

billski · Jan 8, 2008

mlctvt said:
I agree with Riv on this one. Do yourself a favor and get a second set of rims with snow tires mounted.

I already did that last month for my wife's car. I'm just not in the position to buy three sets of tires and two sets of rims all at once, as I originally described.

My plan is to get some good all-weather tires right now for my all wheel drive and make it through this winter (I have done that for 25 years on front-wheel), then by winter tires next fall. Spread out the cost.

tjf67 · Jan 8, 2008

riverc0il said:
I will take that challenge. It isn't about "running circles" around other cars, it is about getting to the mountain safely. Make no doubt about it, AWD with snow tires trumps all and 2WD with snow tires still gets a little squirrely in the back end. But you couldn't talk me into AWD without snow tires over 2WD with snow tires in the winter.

Thanks dad.

billski · Jan 8, 2008

riverc0il said:
I agree with the suggestions, such as Marc's that not all conditions are the same and in some conditions AWD could easily trump 2WD with snows. But overall, for those doing a lot of snow travel, I think the snows are more important overall.For types that didn't drive during snow storms constantly during the winter, AWD without snows probably are fine, pending there is no over confidence in the AWD. I actually need reality checks with over confidence in my snows.

I have driven frontwheel drive for 25 years on all-seasons and always gotten to/fro the mountain safely. My new wheels are all wheel drive with all-season tires and I noticed a marked improvement in handling on snow. I am not much of a "car person" but even pedestrian-me could notice the grip.

The "squirlliness in back" that riverc describes is not there. I suspect it's because the new car has stability control, which is purported to eliminate fish-tailing amongst other ailments. It also has traction control, (another new feature for me) but I've not been in a wheel-stuck-spinning situation yet, so I've not experienced the downside (sometimes you need a little slip to "dig" for traction.) These new features can be disabled from the dashboard.

There is one very long, very steep hill at Stowe that a front wheel drive on 4-seasons cannot get up when snow-covered. My friend says he's never bought snows for his subie in Stowe (he's has his priorities, ski pass first, tires and food second..) In fact, the time my frontwheel got stuck, he walked back, got his subie and rescued us. At that point, his tires were nearly bald, kid you not....
I'm really enjoying it so far. Especially having back the heated seats which I had 10 years go and gave up last car.

X-Linked · Jan 8, 2008

billski said:
I picked up a used AWD sedan which now needs tires. I can only buy one set of four tires at this time, so I'm thinking about some 4-season tires that can last until next winter, then get a set of winter tires at that time, to spread out the expense.

Any comments on ski-adventure-driving on 4-season tires on an AWD sedan? My daily commute is 50 miles round trip on the highway. I will be doing trips to the Green (Stowe, Bush, Mt. Snow, Middlebury, MRG) and White mountains, and usually drive only on plowed, but occasionally snow-packed roads. Sometimes find myself in a storm for a few hours, though I usually wait it out or get there early, so it's only a few miles.

My bud has an AWD subie and for five years has driven weekly to Stowe, up the steep Notchbrook road (where I got stuck in my FWD) with only 4-season tires. He's NEVER bought snows.

Having said that, I just splurged for a set of Blizzaks for my wife's car and just love it. It's just not in the cards for two more sets and I don't want to drive winter tires all summer.

Tire brand/model suggestions also appreciated.

Thanks!

I highly recommend Yokohama's All weather/4 season line of tires. I have used many different tires and really liked them the best for all year. I am sure continentals make good all season tires as well. I would personally stay away from the racier tires (firestone, bridgestone, sumitomos) If you don't mind waiting a couple days for delivery to have them bought a bit cheaper, you can always by Yokos, Conts, and Khumos (look at the ecstas) off of Tirerack.com rather cheaply. Good luck.

riverc0il · Jan 8, 2008

tjf67 said:
Thanks dad.

Impressive argumentative and debating skills. Not a dad and only 29 years old but that is really beside the point of your ad hominem retort. I got a few amen's from other "dads" on the forum. :roll:

Auto tires for winter driving

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