Utah Trip Last Week

Salt Lake

Did the JET BLUE thing to SLC ($309 round trip for BOTH) with my buddy on Monday (12/6). Got to ALTA around 9:30 AM Tuesday and it was already snowing hard. By about 2:00 PM there was at least 12 inches on the ground and the drifts were about waist deep. Got lost (visibility about 50 feet) and skied into a gully. Caught a tail on a bump, flipped head over heels backward, went head first into the snow. Nearly "drowned" when I started aspirating snow. Luckily I had lost one ski and managed to backstroke back to the surface. Very scary stuff! By Wednesday AM the snow total was 29" inches at SNOWBIRD. We were literally waist deep in the trees! It was an awesome feeling for us "Easterners." Wind was so intense they never opened the Tram. Took the chair (which ends on the same ridge line as the Tram) and got dropped off into a "white hell." The only direction we were sure of was down. Couldn't see the ground, and every so often the wind simply blew me over. About 300 feet lower, the wind started to blow over us, and we actually were able to really ski again. Finished out the day on the lower lifts and areas. Snow kept coming and we got better and better in the powder. It was literally ski fast, or sink! We took Thursday off as planned. We needed the rest, and nursed our wounds. It amazed us that down in Salt Lake, it was in the 40's and simply raining lightly. Since it also kept snowing all day Thursday, we decided we had to get some "Fat Boys" for the next two days. On Friday we went to Brighton. It was GLORIOUS! The sun had come out, the temps were in the 40's, and the three-day fresh snow total was about 49 inches (on top of a mid mountain snow pack that was already at 75 inches). The powder boards I had rented made my day. I felt like I could fly. They have very little side cut, and you just have to go back to a more traditional style of turning with more emphasis on weighting and unweighting. We were giddy, whooping and yelling as we careened down the steeps (If you haven't experienced it, a Utah Double Black is something to behold!) In no time at all, we were in the trees. I now understand why there are tracks through and between anything wide enough for a human body to fit through. Also, some of the locals were jumping off ridiculous heights. From one of the lifts, we saw a local do at least a 60-foot jump and ski right out of his landing. It was like being in the middle of a Warren Miller Movie. You can (and people do) ski anything that is "inbounds." Trails exist, but only for the tourists. Due to the snow totals and the consequent avalanche danger the "back country gates" were closed. Of course, a couple of bozos didn't listen, and got caught in an avalanche in an area between BRIGHTON and SOLITUDE. Even though his buddy found him, and dug him out, one of the guys didn't make it. We watched the rescue chopper from one of the lifts as we rode up. The entire Big and Little Cottonwood Canyon region sounded like a war zone from the guns and charges they were tossing to break loose the dangers cornices and overloaded slopes. In some cases, the patrol guys just rode up the lift chairs and tossed timed charges into the snow pack as they moved. Brighton has night skiing and they even have lights on some of the steepest slopes and bowls, so we skied until about 6:30 PM. On Saturday we made a bad mistake. Unknown to us, SNOWBIRD had apparently had some sort of "fill up at Sinclair 4 times, and get a Two For One Ticket." Add the incredible amount of snow to beautiful weather, and a lot of people show up. We went back to SNOWBIRD because we hadn't skied Mineral Basin due to the closures on Wednesday. We finally found some lifts that had little or no lines, and still managed to exhaust ourselves by 4 PM. We later spoke with some people who had gone to Solitude, and they had never had a line. Oh well, 3 out of 4 ain't bad. We then went back to our hotel in town, soaked in the hot tub for about a half hour, showered, went to dinner, and then took the “Red-eye” home at midnight. Landed back in “reality” at 5:45 AM and found ourselves home. Needless to say, we are plotting furiously on doing it again. It’s easy for me since I am retired, but my buddy works, and has a fiancé to deal with. I guess I’ll have to find a new “Buddy,” because you just don’t ski in locations and conditions like that by yourself. :beer:

damn im jealous

Wasatch and Avalanches

The Weather channel reported another death due to an avalanche in the Little Cottonwood, too. When I was a ski salesman we used to debate a lot about what was the best ski for powder. There was wide disagreement. An interesting fact about powder: Colorado receives less than Utah, but it is lighter. Alta being the highest elevation receives the most and lightest powder in the Wasatch. A long time ago an Avalanche took out one of their chairs so some of their best powder is accessible only through traverses from other chairs. Back 20 or 30 years ago an avalanche in the Tahoe area not only took out lifts but also collapsed a lodge full of people.

One more.

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Nearly "drowned" when I started aspirating snow.

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Been There.

Luckily I had lost one ski and managed to backstroke back to the surface. Very scary stuff!

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Done that. Did you recover your ski? My first experience losing a ski, It took me a half hour to find it. I went to a leash after that, but now I own things called powder cords which I haven't used yet.

We were literally waist deep in the trees!

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I don't remember it ever being anything but waist deep in the trees in the Wasatch. I've been out in the little cottonwood on snowshoes because I would sink over my head with skiis.

Wind was so intense they never opened the Tram. Took the chair (which ends on the same ridge line as the Tram) and got dropped off into a "white hell."

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My first experience there was not a pleasant one as I was wearing Jeans and did not have a good knitted wrist on my gloves. The jeans got wet , the snow got into my cuff and I froze on the chair as the wind howled at me in spite. By the way that lodge that was taken out by an avalanche in California was full of people, the chair was operating, I believe, and there were skiers milling around outside. It doesn't compare, however, with the avalanches that took out a village I have visited in Austria a few years ago.

Utah Trip

Yes beswift I did recover my ski. In fact, I had to use my skiis to work my way out of the gully. After I calmed down from the initial "near drowning" I popped off the ski I still had on and "dog paddled" with it to the other one (that fortunately had a tip still exposed) then used them both to make "steps" to get back to the ridge line. I was once in a class at Vail when an instructor who was demonstrating a technique that we were supposed to imitate suddenly veered toward the side of a trail. He had spotted someone down in a ravine wrapped around a tree. We used the skiis from eight people to build a "stairway" for the poor guy, and then passed him up out of the hole. As the instructor came up, he handed up each of our skiis in turn. While the wind at the top of SNOWBIRD was really intense, the temps were in the 20's and I have an excellent powder suit, gloves, and a full helmet that just totally protect me from the elements. I also was using a hood that covered my face. When I first got the hood a couple of years ago I experienced a bit of goggle fogging, but soon figured out that if I cut a "mouth hole" that I could exhale through (looks really gross when I stick out my tongue!) without a problem. Actually, at that altitude I am mouth breathing anyway. Gotta add one more thing. I bought a "Skier"s Edge" machine about seven weeks ago, and hammered it daily until our trip. I have NEVER started a season in better aerobic and or muscular tone than this one. I have always had little quad trouble because I ski well forward. Powder however, does often push you back on your skiis, especially, if you are not using powder boards. The conditioning program on the machine made quad usage a breeze with no "burn" until very late in the day, and four days of skiing without any post trip muscle affect. It also has improved my balance beyond belief. Sorry about the testimonial, but I really am glad I bought that toy. Think snow in New England!!! I will be doing a two-day run to either SNOW or KILLINGTON next week.

Ski Club

Hey salida looked at your scrap book. Do you always let the girls go on top?

I'd respond but I'm not really sure what you are talking about.

-porter

Apology

Sorry salida. I was confused. There was a link to a college ski club in another person's posting, and they had some funny (not obscene) pictures that I was refering to.

Re: Utah Trip

tirolerpeter, interesting report. Making stairs with skiis :idea: A bit O.T. but I once was going through a book or watching a documentary film on avalanche or mtn. climbing or something like that. They had a piece on this group that decided to cross an area at risk by roping themselves together and then crossing at the high end of the risky snow. As it turned out one guy got caught in an avalanche and pulled everyone else down. The last guy was able to cut his rope, dig in, and hold, however. He told the story: a few were saved but some died. My experience losing a ski was on a sunny day after a dump in the very large Honeycomb Canyon behind Solitude. After clearing the avalanche danger they had just opened the area. Three of us went in first from the summit ,and we all wiped out. As for my ski, no tip was showing and I had to estimate the trajectory of the ski and fish around for it. The other guys didn't wait, but it was sunny and warm out. I just can't imagine getting out of that Canyon (6 miles long) on one ski. Now, I pack the cords every trip I take. I haven't used them as the only deep powder skiing I have done since buying them has been with three pin telemark bindings which don't release. Even then, they used to require leashes when taking a lift. (Very stupid rule.)

tirolerpeter said:

I popped off the ski I still had on and "dog paddled" with it to the other one (that fortunately had a tip still exposed) then used them both to make "steps" to get back to the ridge line. .

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I did use the leashes that predated brakes before I found these cords. Now try and imagine getting out of that situation with your loose skiis tied to your leg

tirolerpeter said:

When I first got the hood a couple of years ago I experienced a bit of goggle fogging, but soon figured out that if I cut a "mouth hole" that I could exhale through (looks really gross when I stick out my tongue!) without a problem. [/i]

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I keep a Ski Mask for Bank Holdups and extreme skiing situations. The nose and cheeks are protected which helps in subzero situations. Unfortunately, the eyeholes clash with my lashes. I added silk pieces around the holes which helps, though. Yesterday, I was wearing a >>chill choker<< which covers my mouth, but I did defog the goggle lens with a chemical coating. I use Scott's product. My goggles, also, are PMT lensed. I find that mouth breathing through cloth adds a lot of moisture to it. This in turn will freeze if you don't continue to breath through it.

tirolerpeter said:

Actually, at that altitude I am mouth breathing anyway. Gotta add one more thing. I bought a "Skier"s Edge" machine about seven weeks ago, and hammered it daily until our trip. I have NEVER started a season in better aerobic and or muscular tone than this one.

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I'm a little reluctant about going directly to altitude skiing at my age (I'm 54), however, 5 years ago I drove out to Co. and climbed a 13,000 peak a week after being at sea level. Certainly conditioning is very important. What has helped me the most was spending fall in the mountains (quite beautiful in Co.) before skiing. They say Altitude sickness can strike anyone no matter how well conditioned.

tirolerpeter said:

Powder however, does often push you back on your skiis, especially, if you are not using powder boards.

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That's the way I ski powder. I know that others can not change their technique for it, but I am not that good. I once skied with my Cousin (A native Vermonter who spent his first years in a house outside of Montpelier with a skiable hill behind it.) at Alta. It was amazing watching him (since I had trouble keeping up, I could watch.) cut through waist deep powder making very tight slalom turns leaning over his tips.

tirolerpeter said:

The conditioning program on the machine made quad usage a breeze with no "burn" until very late in the day, and four days of skiing without any post trip muscle affect.

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Smart. I once spent three weeks skiing in Utah, I went out almost every day and was in excellent condition before and after that period. It would take a lot to get back into that form, now. I got so much skiing that when I drove up to Sun Valley I decided not to ski. The other day in the lodge I was chewing the fat with a couple of experienced skiers and the topic of Sun Valley came up. One guy was shocked when I told him I went there and didn't ski. I went there for the change of scenery, not the skiing. :wink:

Hey beswiftwish I were 54 again since I'm on the downhill side of 58. Nevertheless, I was skiing with a 34 year old NYC Firman (who runs up tall buildings carrying fire gear every day) and a 24 year old US Army Infantry LT. They were "huffing" at just about the same rate that I was, although it didn't really restrict our skiing to any degree. As to "mouth breathing:" I have congenitally small nasal passages so I tend to do that even at sea level. The mouth hole works just fine, and I don't mind the frostiness. In fact, when it is really cold it just freezes slightly away from my face and still cuts the wind.

Age.

tirolerpeter Glad to see that there is someone older than I doing this thing!!! I try to keep in mind, however, the adage >>There's no fool, like an old fool.<< as I age. Your conditioning program looks very interesting. I have a hard time sticking with exercise equipment , and alas my waist line shows it. Anyway, your experience nearly drowning in snow may help you if you get caught in an Avalanche. I want to add some comments on that here. First of all once you spend some time at terrestial altitude, you should be learning something about these beasts of nature. The avalanche that took out the lodge and lift line in the Sierra's happened at Alpine Meadows. I saw pictures in Newsweek of a memorial they had on the tenth anniversary of the disaster. Try picturing a group of still youthful snow bunnies and ski bums with missing limbs. :beer: Some party. On another topic, did you find your helmut a hinderance when floundering around in the snow? I wonder what a hood with a mouth hole and helmut might be like in such extreme situations. I'm not comfortable with a helmut. They increase the possiblility of serious neck injuries for one. I will wear a hood if it is raining or snowing out. However, I prefer hats as they have the optimal visibility range. I was rear-ended somewhere in Utah once by some wild-eyed punk coming out of my blind side going into a powder bowl. He took air off of the lip without knowing who was in the area. The deep snow saved me from serious injury, but since them I am always leary about my periferal vision. When I played American football with a helmut, my coach (a very capable Canadian football league vetran) was always instructing me to keep my concentration on my periferal vision.

Oh, and where did you find that >>Skier's Edge<< machine? I want to look at it.

Age & Fools

Beswift being an old fool doesn't mean you have to be "foolish." I don't jump, but do catch some air at times. I avoid doing it until I have skied the trail at least once and can see the landing conditions and/or have a companion spotting, and never on a trail with traffic. I also will not put myself into any type of "out of bounds" situation if there is the slightest danger of unstable snow conditions that might lead to an avalanche. I really like wearing a helmet and I cannot say that it was an issue one way or another in my "near drowning" situation. Also, I do not think that I would try anything "adventurous" in extreme cold or wind conditions that would require a facemask. As to peripheral vision, my helmet does not change what I see through my goggles or when I just ski in sunglasses and, I always keep "scanning" around me. Ironically, the worst injury I have suffered while skiing in Utah was on a lift line. I was nearly stopped and just turning right (and looking that way) onto a lift line at Alta when some asshole came flying out of the woods and through the line. He mistakenly thought he could get between the last person and me. I was totally blind-sided. He scooped both my feet out from under me and dropped me right onto my tailbone! I am still unable to sit comfortably in certain positions nine months later. I should have taken his name and sued him!
While exercise just for the sake of it is difficult to get motivated for, I am really pleased with the results, and that fuels my determination to stick with it. In the past year I decided to reduce my weight from around 175lbs for the last 35 years to around 162 - 164lbs; and, my waist size from a snug 34" to a loose 33." (I am 5'6 1/2" tall and have a rather solid frame.) I did it following the "Weight Watchers" program (although I did not attend the meetings since my wife is a very successful and knowledgeable practitioner thereof) but it did not "tone" me the way I liked. Adding the exercise did the trick. The goal of improving my skiing form and stamina is what drove me initially, and now I just like feeling good. I also am getting nice comments from others about me appearance! Go to: skiersedge.com to see the ski machine. I have the Classic Carver model because I was concerned about headroom in my basement family room/gym. I could actually have gone to one of the taller models but didn't know that when I was trying out the machine. It really didn't matter, because this model works just great for me. I also added the RPM platform, and the Slope Simulator. I definitely feel these are essential accessories that move the machine from just pure exercise to skiing specific muscle training. Click on the picture of the guy on the machine to see it animated. I did not bother with the "assistant coach" or "buddy bar" attachment since I use the poles. I find that I can knock of 100 "turns" (a complete left to right to left cycle) without the poles, but it is much more physically challenging then with the use of the poles. Repetitions are more important in exercise than absolute skill. In a 45 minute to 1 hour session I do 1000 to 1200 "turns" in 200 - 300 turn increments alternating with about a total of about 100 crunches, 100 pushups, and upper body weight reps. I try to keep my heart rate at around 135 - 140 during the entire session. Beyond stamina, I have found great improvement in balance. I believe the slope simulator is the key here. Don't laugh, I can now easily stand on either foot and put on a pair of socks without holding on. Gotta run. More later if you are interested.

tirolerpeter - what happened to SnowBasin? I thought you were gonna try to go there, and I was looking forward to a trip report.......!

Your trip sounds like a lot of fun. Haven't been to UT since '98, so I gotta get back out there again in the next couple winters.....

Utah Trip Report

Yo ChileMass as I said in my report, on day three we rested and took a ride to scope out some real estate investment possibilities up near Snow Basin. While we were in the area we drove up to the base lodge at around 11:00AM. To our horror, it was raining! We intercepted a young man just walking toward the parking lot obviously leaving and asked about conditions. "It s.......ks, the snow is heavy, wet, and sticky nearly all the way to the top." The big storm was centered to the south and the areas at Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons are at higher altitudes. In fact, instead of going back toward Ogden, we headed east toward Park City, and it was sort of rain/sleet there too. That settled the issue for us for the next two days. That was when we decided to stick to Cottonwood Canyon and had our awesome day at Brighton on day four. I will plan to get out there again this season and I'm sure conditions will improve as the winter really gets going.

A little O.T.

For a short time I worked at the Blue Hills Ski area in Milton (actually a part of greater Boston). It can get very crouded with kids and has a surprisingly steep slope for a Southern N.E. area. The guy who ran the place at the time told me that he kept his binding settings very low because he had been hit so many times in front of the lodge at the bottom of the hill. Funny, but I avoid lift lines like the plague, I try and keep moving at all times around the lodge and never stop and chat there. However, the most dangerous place for me has been exiting the lift. I won't bore you with some of the incidents, but one of my worse injuries started by getting a pole caught in a chair and having a shoulder ligament torn. Most people think that most fatal collisions for skiers would be with trees. That is no where near the truth. Man-made objects are behind the vast majority of deaths on Ski slopes. I don't jump on skiis like I used to, either. A couple of years ago I broke both wrists and bruised a rib when I fell from the trees while working. That radically changed my feelings about heights.I never have been tempted much to go out of bounds, especially after some of the horrendous experiences I have had with snow and cold. It's been five years since I have been in the Rockies, but every year I read about someone who dies in an area that I know which is either out-of-bounds or a wilderness. One must take risks, however, but setting realistic goals and understanding the rewards would be very important in taking them. :wink:

A little O.T.

Beswift, I hope your "tree" jumping accident didn't sap your confidence to take on steeps too much. I too have taken a number of pretty tough hits (a couple on the slopes) over time. Maturity tends to instill a bit of extra caution in us, but when we get our timing and rhythm nicely tuned up, we can still make some terrific runs on challenging terrain. An occasional "out of bounds" foray is fun when there is not much untracked in-bounds snow around, but I don't do anything stupid and always err on the side of caution. I once had a windbreaker catch on a mid-station get-off at Vail that took me about ten feet up in the air before I managed to wriggle out of it and drop. I wasn't hurt that time, but a few more seconds would have lifted me out over a serious drop. The attendant was doubtlessly focused on the "snow bunnies" in the chair behind me and never saw anything! I also had a woman skier, who was stopped at the edge of a trail, suddenly slide right into my path just as I caught an edge and was sort of dancing for control. I hit her squarely, spun around, and went into a backward snowplow. I thought I had it under control when my right heel binding let go and dropped my forehead down on ice. After I regained consciousness, I refused help but as I skied down to the base realized that I was going into shock. I skied right to the front of the aid station and dropped to the ground and announced my problem. They took me to the local hospital, and held me for observation. I didn't know which way was up for about ten days! I now tend to announce my presence to stopped skiers rather loudly these days. Of course, since I rarely ever ski week-ends, this is much less of an issue. Ain't retirement great.

Entertaining thread.

Actually, it is the accidents that

instill a bit of extra caution in us

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IMHO. Possibly we could match story for story, here. However, I would like to offer one anecdote. I spent a year living at the Shussbush an A-frame in the Sugarbush South Basin. Since I worked that season at a local ski shop, I had free access to skiing all three areas there. One day in January I believe, I spent a very tough day in large icy bumps which had a little fresh powder on them. I had priviledges at the Sport's Center and went into the Steam Room after skiing to help my bruises and sore muscles. It was crouded with silent burly men, and the visiblilty was fully obscurred by the steam. Usually once you spend some time in a steam room, your eyes become accustomed to the poor lighting and you can discern your fellow bathers' faces. Anyway, someone asked me if I had skied and what it was like that day. It was a Friday as I remember and many had not arrived in time for skiing. Somewhat proud of surviving the day's challenges I said that I finally knew what the expression Seeing Stars meant as I had seen stars while skiing from slamming into these solid moguls. The guy next to me replied after a pause,

Stars, ya, I know what that is like.

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and shook his head in a resigned gesture nearing despair. I looked closely then at him and my other companions. Suddenly the steam cleared for me, and I realized that I was in a group of New England Patriot football players.

entertaining thread

Beswift we could keep swapping stories ad nauseum, but its clear to me that you have much more "outdoor" life experience than I. Funny coincidence here. I once got on an elevator with my (then) small sons at the Crystal City Marriot in VA and found myself among the largest humans I had ever shared an elevator with. It turns out it was a group of Patriot players heading up to their reserved floor in the hotel. I no longer feel the need to defy icey moguls. It is no fun recovering from bruises (much less potential breaks) just to stoke my ego. I do enjoy challenging runs, but not to the degree that a mistake could be catastrophic.

Elevators

Certainly I have some elevator experience, too. Funny, how many famous people with which I have rode elevators. I once went to a Superbowl game in New Orleans, Steelers and Minn. in '73 or '74. I didn't know there were so many big people in the world. The French Quarter was wall to wall with HUGE fans and supporters. I'm 6 feet and 200 lbs, but I felt dwarfed. It's unfortunate, though, but no matter how careful you may be, some accidents are unavoidable. That doesn't stop me. :dunce: