"The Myth of Sugarbush"

:flame:

"The Myth of Sugarbush" is the nebulous claim that Sugarbush and Sugarbush North are connected by the Slide Brook Express. It is prominently featured in their brochures and they use it as a lure to entice people to come to their mountain. Yet they leave out some essential information about the criteria that they use when deciding whether or not to operate it. The time has come to expose this myth and shine the light of truth upon it.

They hold this information very close to the vest and it was only with great reluctance did they finally admit the truth. My dispute began because of the deceitful ruses I encountered in response to requests for information about the operating status of the Slide Brook Express. There was a pattern of fraudulent misrepresentation that started with the parking lot attendants, continued along to the cashier, then it was spread around the mountain by the lift operators, it was posted on the magnetic board at the Mt. Ellen Lodge and it finally finished with customer service in the front office.

The first email I received even made the claim that "Sugarbush by no means participates in the deceptive practices" regarding this "truly special chairlift ride". My next email to Sugarbush mentioned that the Slide Brook Express was not operating on Wednesday, March 5, 2003. I received a reply that stated "the Slide Brook is not running today due to wind." the lift and trail report I printed that day showed a 3 mph wind and the temperature was 39 degrees Fahrenheit. I am aware that the present management inherited this problem and perhaps this is a recent policy, Yet instead of taking the opportunity to explain this at the outset they chose to try to conceal the truth

Be forewarned... you will hit a stonewall if you need to deal with customer service...expect a thinly veiled apology, long lame justifications, transparent deceptions and hardball nitpicking to top it off. They never did issue me the refund I requested. Nobody should have to go through the process that I went through before I was finally able to extract this tidbit of truth.

I believe that it was only after Sugarbush Resorts realized that they were dealing with someone who wasn't easily brushed aside and two hours after they became aware I was posting this grievance in another venue that what I would describe as a damage control operation occurred after their final refusal to issue me a refund. I was finally able to get a straight answer about the Slide Brook Express. Here are the essentials as supplied by the Guest Services Manager at Sugarbush Resorts:


For safety reasons, Slide Brook Express does not operate when temperatures, combined with wind chill factors, plummet below a certain set value. I understand your confusion with respect to the fact you were still able to ride Castlerock, Super Bravo, Heaven's Gate, and the rest. Reasons specific to a conservative approach to running Slide Brook surround the fact that Slide Brook -- over two miles long -- traverses non-serviced terrain, making it isolated, difficult, and time consuming to evacuate should there be an emergency

The issue of Slide Brook Lift not running M-F during non-holiday periods including Tuesday 3/4, is one of utilization, redundancy of services, and responsible use of energy. At less than 4% utilization of Slide Brook on non-holiday mid-week days, and with a contracted inter mountain shuttle service that averages just 2 minutes longer than riding the lift, it is irresponsible use of energy on the part of Sugarbush to run that lift on non-holiday mid-week days. Shuttles leave Mount Ellen every half hour from 8:45 to 4:45 for Lincoln Peak, and correspondingly leave Lincoln from 8:30 to 4:30 every half hour, headed for Mount Ellen. The inter mountain shuttles ran faithfully twice an hour from both mountains on both 2/17 and 3/4/03.

Though not stated directly I believe it is cold-blooded economics that is behind their limits on the use of what should really be called the No Wind, Warm Weather, Weekend & Holiday Express. They don't seem to run their Magic Carpet out of the parking lot up to the lodge "M-F during non-holiday periods" as well. If they have no intention of running either of these devices most of the time it should be so noted on the daily lift and trail report. To refuse to do so and to continue to try to parcel out this information only under pressure is fraudulent.

What about the expectations of customer's that expect there will be a chair lift that can whisk them between mountains? The reality more often than not is that they must trudge down to the parking lot in their ski boots dragging their equipment along, wait for the twice hourly shuttle being run down German Flats Rd and then repeat the process again for the return trip. Customer's such as myself that are being lured to one of the most expensive resorts in the east by a myth. Customer's who don't know that if they want to try the "truly special chairlift ride" of the Slide Brook Express they shouldn't ski at Sugarbush "M-F during non-holiday periods" or "when temperatures, combined with wind chill factors, plummet below a certain set value" which is unstated.

I would venture that attempts will be made to fudge the lift and trail reports posted at the website and in the absence of specific numbers it is highly likely that the parameters of this "conservative approach" are affected by the attendance at the mountain on those few weekend and holidays left when they actually bother to run the Slide Brook Express. What is most unique about this "truly special chairlift ride" are the limited opportunities available to try it.

If you fully subscribe to their reasoning something that is such an "irresponsible use of energy" should not have been built at all especially since "a contracted inter mountain shuttle service that averages just 2 minutes longer than riding the lift" existed prior to the construction of the Slide Brook Express. Maybe it borders on negligence that something so "isolated difficult, and time consuming to evacuate should there be an emergency" is even being run at all. It would have been better left on the drawing board. A hopeful plan that one day Sugarbush and Sugarbush North would be connected..."The Myth of Sugarbush" certainly as far as any non-holiday non-weekend skier is concerned.

wow, welcome to the forum. what a first post that was! well thought out and well written it was; but i do take issue with some points.

first of all, the slide brook express was not built by the current owners, it was built by ASC. so in response to your question of why it was built in the first place when a shuttle is available... well, look at ASC's stock (oops! what stock?) for your answer.

highlighting the positives and omitting the negatives is a corner stone of profit making in a capitolistic society (for better or for worse, but that's a different subject entirely). they clearly have a most unique and interesting lift, so they most certainly should publicize it as such regardless of the days it runs (without lieing about when it's not running).

with that said, in regards to the sugarbush response, they really should be ashamed of themselves. for them to give any other reason besides "it's not fiscally responsible to run it on a weekday" is bull shit. financial reasons are tops. why run a lift that is only going to be utilized by a few people? i have no problem with them not running that lift M-F. i do have a problem with them making a public relations gold mine out of it and stating safety and ecological awareness, that's crap. i think it's a sound business decision for them not to operate that lift during mid-week... however, they should be sure to make it plane on all reports that this is the case.

i visited the bush last month. i wanted to ski north, cause i've never skied there before... and i also wanted to ski castlerock (at south) for the same reason. i thought my best course of action would be to park at north and take slide brook over for some runs at castlerock. i was there on a monday and found out that slide brook wasn't running despite the magnetic board in the lodge having an "open" sign on it. i didn't realize it wasn't running till i took a run down and saw it not turning. this means that their statement of the bus only taking 2 minutes longer is grossly disceptive: as you also have to take the time to ski down, get your gear together, wait for the half hour bus, then take a lift up the mountain to get to the other side of the slide brook. total time is probably closer to 30-60 minutes each way depending on how you hit the bus. a lot more than just hoping on a lift.

well, i took off my boots, and drove my sorry ass over to south since the conditions at north were the worst i've ever skied. so i make this rebutal to your post with a VERY GOOD understanding of what it feels like to get mis-information and have to make the trek.

so to sum up my thoughts... i do not mind them not running that lift, so long as their lift reports are accurate. i don't need a huge warning in bold letters (that only insults me and my ability to read and comprehend), just accuracy and a standard policy. shame on sugarbush for not establishing a standard policy and making it known to it's workers. and shame on them for having an inaccurate "trail and lift" board when both me and you were there. however; other resorts are just as bad, if not worse, when it comes to reporting conditions... so i don't get to pissed off when a mega-resort lies... i kinda get used to it (sadly). it's kinda why i don't ski at those places usually... i much prefer skiing at places with only two lifts up that always turn and ski patrollers that don't care where you ski on the mountain, open or closed. i enjoy the complete irrelvence of ski areas like that

I see that I am not alone...

Your experience mirrors my own right down to the false posting on the magnetic board. I spent the rest of the day at Mad River Glen. Then two days at Whiteface to try out the new gondola. Six inches of dustlike powder the first day...lots of snow, lots of vertical and no BS. Then one day at Gore to try out the new gondola. Less pushing than I remember the last time since they reconfigured the lifts.

One little point of nitpicking...I did mention that that "I am aware that the present management inherited this problem and perhaps this is a recent policy."

I do get to pissed off when a mega-resort lies...I never get used to it and refuse to go back. I will not reward them for their lies. There are so many other fine resorts available. Ultimately I agree with you that Sugarbush has a right to make decisions based on their best economic interest. My biggest problem from the start was the deception.

I am sharing this experience both to vent and to inform. I would be lying if I said I was not searching for allies as well. It is a struggle being waged on many fronts. First was to confront Sugarbush directly. Next I am disputing this charge on my credit card. Third were contacts to skiing publications carbon-copied back to Sugarbush. Fourth were contacts made to Mad River Valley business groups. Fifth was joining a few skier forums. And last will be government agencies.

The feedback I have received thus far has been valuable both from people who agree and disagree with me. The clumsy lies followed by the belated admission from Sugarbush changed my focus from mere compensation to a determination not to stop until the information about the status of the Slide Brook Express is easily available and not just being parceled out under protest.

The complete correspondence of this dispute as well as my contacts with other entities regarding this matter has been ordered chronologically, labeled and color-coded. It is available upon request as an email or a wordpad file. It has grown to be 87K in size to date. The nature of these things is that it is very repetitive but it does show how this process evolved. I was considering attaching a composite of my ninth and tenth messages to Sugarbush to this posting and will do so if requested.

At that point I sent Sugarbush two cold-blooded statements of fact that made quite clear my quiet determination to continue the process laid out in great detail so there could be no possible misunderstanding about my intentions and abilities or the consequences of their shortsightedness.

As long as they think a am just one lone nut they will continue to try to ride this out. A corporation after all is an entity that exists for the purpose of making money. They probably think they have lost my business anyway. If more people contact them about this "myth" expressing outrage and the intention to take their business elsewhere, perhaps even mentioning the source of their enlightenment, it would help dispel the notion that they can continue this charade. We have here two victims of that policy! Are there any others out there who feel cheated?

Glenn Stephens

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive...

:beer:

stowe

:beer:

The Front Four are a rush. A little trouble with Goaton my 205cm Volants

:beer:

glenn,

thanks for your correction. i didn't connect that earlier disclaimer after reading your last paragraph which reads to suggest that the current ownership was reasponsible for it's installation, not just it's disposition in the current state of affairs.

i commend your efforts to bring change to the "hype" (a.k.a. lies) involved with reporting. it's a problem everywhere, not just at large resorts. although some areas are quite reputable, most put "spin" on their reports. i was at sunday river for their dollar day and no less than half a dozen trails were roped that they listed as open (mostly glades).

your an inspiration to skiers everywhere that have grown apathetic to lies and spin in ski reports. as i clearly stated in my previous post, i've come to expect these lies at most resorts (those are the one's i usually avoid, which is probably why i don't care... cause i only ski at those resorts when there is a super bargain - see above sunday river reference). it's great to see a skier holding a resort accountable for their reporting. however, it's not a lead that i'd follow as it doesn't bother me since i'm almost never effected by it... and when i am, it's the last thing about a resort that concerns me (see crowds, high lift ticket prices, hassles, and other ASC type concerns).

in any case, good luck with effecting some change... not only at sugarbush but in the skiing industry in general.

btw, is sugarbush really incorporated? i thought that ASC sold it to private investors?

The last paragraph was a rhetorical flourish attached to my opinions because I was looking for an ending. I have a bad habit of droning on and on and offer this posting as further proof. I have mostly moved on myself to cheaper pastures than Vermont. Live Free Or Die! Follow the license plates to New Hampshire. I really find Wildcat more my speed now that they have a detachable quad. Six runs an hour at 2000+ vertical per without the ski patrol chasing you on deserted cruising trails telling you to slow down. Can't beat the view across Pinkham Notch to Mt. Washington with Tuckerman's Ravive beckoning:

Check out the World's Highest WiFi Web Cam at www.mountwashington.org/cam/ravines
Also the background story at www.zakongroup.com/technology/highest_wireless_network

The picture and the concept are great but seeing it for real if you catch a good clear day at Wildcat is awesome! I do my day trips at Windham in the Catskills. Less than three hour trip and a frequent mid-week skier card for $50 that gives you half-price non-holiday non-weekend. Really don't want to deal with holiday and weekend crowds that close to NYC. Even got them to give me half-price on the half-price tickets at the end of the season a couple of years back. I was getting a lift ticket for less than $9. Never paid that little even when I started over 30 years ago.

I come from the Heart Of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) here on Long Island. I am constantly reading in the local papers about how local community groups have successfully stopped what they deem to be an intrusion into their neighborhood by commercial, government and even private citizen initiatives that they opposed. Remember the Shoreham Nuclear Plant. We paid to build it. We paid to shut it down. We paid to dismantle it.

The problem in trying to confront any injustice and to effect change is apathy. I guess coming out of the Woodstock generation and watching how the Vietnam War protests went from the fringe to the mainstream in the late 1960's and early 1970's at a time when the civil rights movement and the environmental movement came of age as well left an impression on me. Some of the protest songs from that period still move me. I saw John Fogerty when he played at the Jones Beach Theater year before last. I'm glad he started playing the old CCR songs again. "Fortunate Son" is as relevant today as it was 30 years ago. Maybe even more so. Ever see the commercial where they sing the first two lines of "Fortunate Son": "Some folks are born made to wave the flag, Ooh, they're red, white and blue". The commercial is over and the next two lines are left out: "And when the band plays "Hail to the chief", Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord," Changes the whole meaning of the concept when you leave out the last two lines.

People can make a difference. It was dedicated people with causes that they believed in that made a lasting change on our lives. Quite a few people paid for it with their lives. It is still debated in some circles as to whether or not this ultimately was a good thing or a bad thing. My opinion is that when people have more respect for the rights of their fellow travelers on this planet - animal, mineral and vegetable alike - it is progress. But that is another subject entirely and I don't mean to compare my present situation to those momentous events that transformed our way of life in so many ways both positive and negative.

I joined the one of the www.dcski.com - Message Forums - Local Resort Discussions. This apathy is very evident down there in the Capitol Beltway Area. No outrage expressed whatsoever but lots of suggestions that I should let it go and try to relax.. A cheap shot comparing New York/New Jersey Skiers to New York/New Jersey drivers. I didn't know skiers had license plates. I may ask them yet: Where does healthy detachment cross the line to complacent apathy?

At the University of Vermont Ski Vermont Forum at www.uvm.edu/skivt-l there were at least a few expressions of outrage almost everybody who responded to this posting agreed that the behavior of Sugarbush Resorts was inexcusable. It was there that I was able to get a little history lesson about the ASC period at Sugarbush as well as some background about the Slide Brook Express and the Slide Brook Wilderness. There were plans on the drawing boards for years after Sugarbush acquired Glen Ellen in the late 1970's to turn it into one giant resort. Mad River Glen is a short hike away as well. But local opposition and a couple of hibernating bears stopped it. The grudgingly approved Slide Brook Express was a compromise choice by ASC that created in the end the "myth" that Sugarbush and Sugarbush North were one. Though a very unique concept - a chair that travels laterally through the wilderness and loads at both ends - it was a failure from a ridership point of view. Few people use it even on weekends and holidays.

Courtesy of Benjamin Kulas:

"And having carpooled with lifties who have worked the Slidebrook lift, I can assure you that even in holiday periods, the number of passengers of the Slide Brook Express can be negligible (certainly less than 100 in a day, perhaps even fewer than 50 - my memory is foggy, but I remember being flabbergasted at the low number. And they count every passenger, a source of much complaint from the lifties). While the result is less than ideal, it is the financial reality of trying to operate a ski resort."

In answer to your question: I really don't know the status of how Sugarbush is organized as a business entity. I assume corporate. What person in their right mind would leave themselves personally liable to all of the risks of operating a skiing resort? The behavior I am encountering is decidedly corporate. I learned from a close friend of mine how to deal with these matters. You must make clear that you are not going to stop until you have exhausted all possible avenues of seeking redress and that you are willing to share your grievance as publicly as possible. As impassioned as I may appear at the written level I find that the process is therapeutic. I don't let it get under my skin but I do let it get under my fingers while I am typing. I am a ski bum and computer geek at heart. I have learned how to multitask as well as compartmentalize.

As this dispute continued a couple of paragraphs were added to "The Myth of Sugarbush" because of continued requests for clarification and as new information became available. I made it clear to Sugarbush Resorts that I would be responsive to requests to correct inaccuracies that were pointed out though at this point they have dropped all pretensions about how "we appreciate feedback" as well as how "we do appreciate the opportunity to respond personally" and they refuse to respond to me at all.

All traces of the ranting idiot have been expunged from the "The Myth of Sugarbush" Fourth Edition" - which is essentially what you see above - and what is left is a cold-blooded statement of fact. I made quite clear to Sugarbush Resorts my quiet determination to continue the process laid out in great detail so there could be no possible misunderstanding about my intentions and abilities or the consequences of their shortsightedness.

I will be filing a complaint with the Consumer Assistance Program of Vermont in which I request their help and refer the relevant statute provisions of Vermont law that I believe have been violated. Next step will the State of Vermont Office of the Attorney General to insist that these laws be upheld and to offer an opportunity to the State of Vermont to deal with this matter before I seek help from whichever appropriate federal agencies that have regulations that may have been violated. All of this I was able to do with a broadband connection to the Internet. Search Open Cut Paste Send...

Quoted from my complaint to Consumer Assistance Program of Vermont...

The redress I seek:

1. The settlement of my outstanding customer service grievance with Sugarbush Resorts. I am seeking a refund for a $59 lift ticket purchased on February 17. 2003. I did not want a voucher and the one I possess I am willing to return to Sugarbush Resorts.

2. The modification of the existing policy at Sugarbush regarding activities & marketing specific to the operation of the Slide Brook Express as well as all other matters dealing with fraudulent activities & marketing. I recognize that Sugarbush Resorts has the discretion to make decisions & policies based on what they believe to be their best economic interest but they have a responsibility to inform both their employees and their customers about such decisions & policies. Persons employed at Sugarbush Resorts should be dispensing accurate & timely information or be trained to direct customers to the proper sources of such accurate & timely information. Their customers are entitled to accurate & timely information regarding these decisions & policies because they impact the expectation of said customers regarding the anticipation of which services are being offered. The information should be noted as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" included on their printed brochures, as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" on the printed daily lift & trails report, as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" during telephone solicitations, as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" included in their mailed solicitations, as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" during email solicitations, as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" posted at their website www.sugarbush.com, and as a clearly stated disclaimer specifically referring to the operation of the Slide Brook Express and any other operations or services that are not to be available "M-F during non-holiday periods" on the posted daily lift & trails report available at their website www.sugarbush.com.

I tried not to leave them any wiggle room but the repetition makes it sound like I am beating a dead horse. Did I miss anything? I will endeavor to personally answer the responses I see posted here as well as adding progress reports if this matter is resolved be it through a change of heart at Sugarbush Resorts or because an outside agency compels Sugarbush Resorts to end this charade.

Glenn Stephens

regarding people being able to make a difference, you are 100% correct. and you are also correct in regard to apathy being the evil that it is. but people have to choose their battles. if everyone of us battled every injustice in our neighborhoods alone (let alone the state or region), we would do nothing but battle 24-7. for myself, i have picked (what i believe to be) much bigger fights that are more important to me than snow reports. i simply don't have the efforts or time to wage war on a snow report, although i highly commend your efforts as regardless of the outcome, i bet it already has effected some change.

i am amazed at your choice in wildcat. i've found their online trail reports to be the amongst the worst offenders of false reporting. it is an excellent area with excellent views though; despite the outragous single day ticket price on the weekend. it's nice if you can get the discounts and deals they offer though. it used to be my favorite area before i couldn't afford it and didn't like how management was running the place.

i am fairly certain that sugarbush was bought by private interests and is not incorporated. i may be wrong on that point, but that's how i understood the transaction of the resort. lots of privately owned companies have established "corporate" styled operations, i work for one.

:angry:

It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it. Ain't got nothing better to do. The consensus over at www.dcski.com was that I should "Get A Life" though not actually phrased as such. What' inspired it was the deception. What kept it going was the bald-faced lying and stubbornness in the front office. It's a small meaningless little battle but it's more than a fudged trail report it's the attempt to propagate a myth supported by a phalanx of lies and that is why I may prevail in the end. The biggest fights and the most important fights...guess I'm one of the chickenhawks. Cheering the whole process on from my living room but would I want to be standing in the mountains of Afghanistan or the deserts of Iraq. Guess it depends on you level of personal outrage. If my brother died in one of those WTC towers it would certainly be more personal.

:lol:

Back to skiing ...that's what this forum is supposed to be about. By the time I get to Wildcat I have passed. the far more expensive pastures of New York and Vermont. It's a little austere and few amenities but a $30 motel room in Gorhan or North Conway is enough for me. I don't read the trail report beyond "Is the quad running?" Last year I settled in and bought a three day pass...very reasonable. Had just come from Stowe...one night of lodging and one day of skiing cost almost as much as three nights & days at Gorham & Wildcat. The second day the closed the quad because of the wind at about 12:00. Added an extra day to my lift ticket...no questions asked after I made it quite clear that I came there for the quad. That day I drove around Mt. Washington. Stopped in the AMC facility in Pinkham Notch...nice model of the mountain in gift shop. In North Conway tried to get a two broken boot buckles on a pair of 14 year old Dachsteins fixed. First shop I stopped in said they couldn't do it but they directed me to someplace that did that kind of work. At Stan & Dans Ski Shop I had two black Lange boot buckles put on those boots. Even offered to paint them orange to match the existing...told him not to bother. Cost me $30 with an extra buckle thrown in for good measure. I had tried to have these boots fixed in more than ten other shops in NY & VT and everybody was trying to sell me boots. Wasn't going to give up the most comfortable responsive ski boots I ever owned.

:x

Ultimately I don't care who owns a ski area but I recognize when genuine customer service in English has been replaced by phony glossed over corporatese. The hot knife through butter to cut through this nonsense is to always focus on the truth when confronted by lies. I will venture a guess that I will never get my refund but the cat is out of the bag as far as the myth is concerned. Just no way Sugarbush can ignore that festering wound if there is somebody who is picking at the scab.

Glenn Stephens

:beer:

Trying To Make A Liar Out Of Me...

Latest...

Maybe making progress...

First it was the wind...

Next came "utilization, redundancy of services, and responsible use of energy"

Morphed again today into "It had to do with operating the Resort in an efficient and fiscally responsible manner"

Yet on the other hand...

They are going to "resume daily operations, beginning on March 17" of the Slide Brook Express

Fiscal Responsibility goes right out the window like a thief in the night when bad publicity starts banging on the front door like the Sheriff...

:dunce:

I owe an apology to Benjamin Kulas for quoting him and using his name without his permission. It was insensitive of me and I will take care in the future before naming anyone without prior consultation.

Glenn Stephens

Wow. This is certainly an entertaining thread and I'd be interested on getting the reaction of the recent SB RSN transplants here. While I'm a big believer in "picking your battles", Northbay does have some interesting points here; not that I would have ever gone to his extent though...

So does the Slidebrook run any more frequently these days?

Holy crap, thats a lot of reading! And I thought TB wrote long TRs And this uses colors too, I think it was TB in disguise... 8)

I worked at the Bush during the ASC regime 97-2001 after millions were invested to upgrade the lift system including the construction of Slidebrook. I also worked this past winter under Summit Ventures.

This problem IMHO was caused by poor customer service. Many resorts do not operate some lifts/services during midweek non-holiday as a cost saving measure. Anyone coming to the Bush should be told or made aware of this before they put down their money, most consider it an inconvenience but if they thought Slidebrook would be open and it was not they should be offered the option of a voucher with incentives or in this case a full refund.

Ironically, back in the ASC days for the first hour if for any reason you did not like the skiing/riding you got a voucher for another day.

About marketing. Unless your Rip Van Winkler I think everyone knows that the marketing departments of any business is to convince and sometimes deceive people into coming to their business.

In 1998/99(?) the Bush produced and used in their brochure a composite photo making it look like the trails on Mt. Ellen and Lincoln Peak were next to each other. As a professional photographer and Sugarbush employee I raised a royal stink about it. They did stop using it but I did see it being used somewhere last year.

I have made this suggestion many times to Sugarbush upper management and I will repeat it here cause I know at least one person in that group does post here. Offer a lower midweek all mountain day use ticket, no Slidebrook is just one of the reasons for doing this. Since midweek day ticket sales are such a small number, people who have midweek ski/stay packages get hefty discounts, it would not cost the resort much in light of the theory that a happy customer is a good thing.

Lastly, your myth is really not a myth. We are all treated badly at one time or another by our bank, utility company, whatever. It's part of the world we live in. If you want to take it to the "supreme court" ...that's cool. Me, I got better things to do with my time. Good luck.

Greg said:

Wow. This is certainly an entertaining thread and I'd be interested on getting the reaction of the recent SB RSN transplants here. While I'm a big believer in "picking your battles", Northbay does have some interesting points here; not that I would have ever gone to his extent though...

So does the Slidebrook run any more frequently these days?

Click to expand...

The policy was pretty much the same all year. They only run it during weekenda dn holidays. Given the low ridership numbers, I don't think anyone can blame them. But even as a loyal SB skier, I have to admit the deception rankles me somewhat. Just come out and speak the truth, and any potential issue would be defused! That said, I take issue with the ridership numbers stated by Ben Kulas. Whenever I ride that lift, or traverse under it, I always see people on it. Not a lot mind you, but it's certainly more than 100/day on weekends and holidays.

The only time I ever went to Sugarbush I spent the whole time at Ellen, partly because I was expecting the Slide Brook Express to be open. I didn't feel like taking a shuttle... I was pretty dissapointed to find out they only ran it on the weekends.. :roll:

Yep....good old Slide Brook closings :roll: Not a new concept.

ski_resort_observer said:

In 1998/99(?) the Bush produced and used in their brochure a composite photo making it look like the trails on Mt. Ellen and Lincoln Peak were next to each other. As a professional photographer and Sugarbush employee I raised a royal stink about it. They did stop using it but I did see it being used somewhere last year.

Click to expand...

I remember that... first saw it in the Waitsfield Telecom phonebook, and was rather annoyed and amazed that they would do such a thing... saw it last year on skivermont.com, had it favorited for a while but I think I got rid of it...

From the beginning, last year it was said that they would operate Slidebrook weekends and holidays, only.

I thought it was on the map, but I just checked and it is not. I think that is wrong, as it was part of the plan. It should also be in their brochures as such.

People rightly get upset when they come to a place following advertised items and find them not to be. When that happens, it leaves them with a bad taste for that place and they may not return.

hmmmmmmmm

well now....

that is a lot of reading (ranting) but worth the time...

I first skied here in 1982 and became a pretty regular SBush skier in 1986 (first ski house here)....

and ummmmm well not sure I have seen an accurate snow/lift report in that time

let me think....

not sure I have seen one from pretty much any mountain I have skied in the east or the west except maybe MRG...

Let's face it folks, business is about marketing and marketing is about getting you here. That said (and being an ex-marketing person) there are both good ways and bad ways to spin the truth....

In some ways I have grown insensitive to what SBush tells us and ski it for what it is...

awesome terrain. as to the shuttle bus, very handy when needing a ride on GFlats road but can't claim to have wasted the 1/2 hour or so to switch sides on it because it is NOT "as quick as the lift" no matter how you count it...

It has been over a year since we have had SBrook lift running 7 days and I have learned to deal with that. As to being told the truth versus the marketing spin, I have learned to deal with that as well.....