"Deep Throat's" Legacy?

dmc · Jun 2, 2005

Stephen said:
I don't understand this idea that one should fill his/her cabinet with people that disagree with them.

Are there examples of other administrations that have done this?

-Stephen

So why even have a cabinet if your not going to let them give you advice? Does he have ALL the answers?
He surrounds himself with "yes men"

This total power thing really bugs me...

Jaytrek57 · Jun 2, 2005

Are there examples of other administrations that have done this?

Yes. My house.

Although my wife disagrees with me. :wink:

JimG. · Jun 2, 2005

dmc said:
So why even have a cabinet if your not going to let them give you advice? Does he have ALL the answers?
He surrounds himself with "yes men"

This total power thing really bugs me...

Hmmmmm...I think you give Bush too much credit. What bugs me about this administration is that GWB appears to be the "yes man" and sociopaths like Rumsfeld and Cheney are actually the ones making policy. Those guys spook me big time.

That, and I have this weird feeling his father George Herbert is pulling all the strings in the background. I think all this cloak and dagger stuff is what makes Barbara Bush's eyes bug out (bless her soul).

ctenidae · Jun 2, 2005

Maybe Hero is too strong a word, but I think Felt did the right thing (if it actually was Felt- Woodward still refuses to confirm- I wonder if that's a sense of honor, keeping his word, or trying to maintain a spot in the market for the book he's sure to put out after Deepthroat dies). Felt may have been a disgruntled employee, but what personal gain did he get from exposing Nixon? He kept it a secret for 30 years. It's not like he cashed in on it.

The comparison of Felt to Ashcroft and the arguments on their respective actions is ridiculous. Felt used information, perhaps illegally, to expose criminal activity at the very highest level of government. Ashcroft tried to use government to get information, formerly illegally, on the general public. There's no way you can even begin to paint them with the same brush.

JimG. · Jun 2, 2005

ctenidae said:
Felt may have been a disgruntled employee, but what personal gain did he get from exposing Nixon? He kept it a secret for 30 years. It's not like he cashed in on it.

Felt didn't leak the info for personal gain, he leaked it to screw Nixon and he did a fine job of it.

You sound like his family today..."stupid old man, you didn't make any money out of this. Now get out there and say you're a hero so we can at least cash in".

I guess it always boils down to the money nowadays.

ctenidae · Jun 2, 2005

I wasn't making any comment on whether he should (or could) have cashed in. Instead, I'm saying he didn't do it for personal gain. That mitigates, I suppose, the revenge aspect, though not by much.

I kind of doubt Bush I is pulling too many strings. At least, if he is, I doubt he's doing it for the reasons he thinks he is. Bush Sr's time at the CIA probably taught him a few tricks, but I think his strings are being pulled, too. Not by any one person, or even a few people, but by this collective idea of "right" that seems to have taken hold. It's a Republican idea because they're the best at controlling the message. To bring this back on topic, Nixon invented the game, and it's been perfected since then. One of his top press aides went on to work for Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II- all people (with the possible exception of Ford) who were very good at controllong public perception.

Charlie Schuessler · Jun 2, 2005

I'm not a fan of considering Felt a hero...I believe he did the right thing only because there was no other way to get to the real crooks, the White House Gang...I will admit that reading the articles and listening to the reports the past few days brought back memories...what a truly sad time it was during those years...

riverc0il · Jun 2, 2005

wow... hardly...
I would consider Colin Powell a hero cause he stood up to GWB probably knowing that he'd get crap for it.. I'd consider Cristy Whitman a hero cause she stood up to GWB too...

Funny how they both don't work for him anymore... hmmmmm..... Do I sense a trend here???

colin powell is no hero, but he certainly could have been. i would have voted for him had he ran for pres and he's a repub. powell got played, he should have known better than signing up under bush. he got played bad and likely knew he was getting played while it was happening. wasn't surprising seeing him leave the administration. he's damaged goods politically now, smooth move on the current admin playing someone that raises questions and doubts the way powell did. but certainly no hero.

riverc0il · Jun 2, 2005

Stephen said:
I don't understand this idea that one should fill his/her cabinet with people that disagree with them.

Are there examples of other administrations that have done this?

-Stephen

descent breeds discussion and alternative points of view. if everyone agrees with you and "yes's" you, you miss out on valuable feed back. besides, it's boring when everyone agrees. just like these forums. what would be the sense if everyone agreed about everything all the time.

i do not think you want to fill a cabinet with people that disagree fundamentally with the person in charge. everyone must share the same vision which is why you rarely see politicians from a different party getting into the cabinet let alone top positions. but i believe it's important to have strong minded persons that couter balance each other and can play devil's advocate and suggest alternative means. if other options are not laid on the table, we run the risk of not carefully considering our actions...

riverc0il · Jun 2, 2005

hero is indeed too strong a word. it's a word that gets tossed out there whenever someone does anything admirable. it's even tossed out there for people doing their job.

for those critisizing the felt, i can agree slightly that he's cashing in his chips. he's an old man now and really should have taken this to his grave. if delivering the truth to the american people was his goal (admirable, i respect truth being revealed), he should have made a will to announce the details upon his death. what good is done by making the announcement now besides attention, prestiege, and money?

that said, the man did the right thing at the time. can any one imagine the whistle not having been blown? we desperately need people blowing the whistle on people that retain high power and abuse it. the situation of the presidency since nixon has been one of shadow. bush's team decided they would not be caught, so they clamped down on leaks and press. is this the result of administrations being fearful of being caught? repub or demo, we ALL know there is behind the scene schananegans going on. why else the need for secracy unless it is a matter of national security and/or intelligence? unfortunate times, are these, when trust in government is so low because of such dealings.

bigbog · Jun 2, 2005

enough of my love of G. Gordon Liddy :lol: Crooks in an Administration will attempt to spin virtually anything into being good for national security....tricky Dick loved to play that game, just as both Bushes have loved to play Sadam Hussein into some evil guy whom Washington has always hated.
I don't really think Deep Throat was a hero, just an honest staff member of the FBI doing his job. Corrupt Corporate America loves to paint employees that try to just do good honest work...as disgruntled employees. I was a part of Digital's canning, so I guess I am little biased.

madman · Jun 3, 2005

Every whistle blower in modern times has been labeled as disgruntled. I have never heard one described as honest or the best employee we ever had.Now there are safe guards to protect whistleblowers but it still takes big balls,and a good chance your career will be over. I think he should have taken this to the grave but this also gives the chance for questions to be addressed

thetrailboss · Jun 3, 2005

Well, the consensus here, 8-2, feel Mr. Felt did the right thing....interesting!

thetrailboss · Jun 3, 2005

riverc0il said:
hero is indeed too strong a word. it's a word that gets tossed out there whenever someone does anything admirable. it's even tossed out there for people doing their job.

for those critisizing the felt, i can agree slightly that he's cashing in his chips. he's an old man now and really should have taken this to his grave. if delivering the truth to the american people was his goal (admirable, i respect truth being revealed), he should have made a will to announce the details upon his death. what good is done by making the announcement now besides attention, prestiege, and money?

that said, the man did the right thing at the time. can any one imagine the whistle not having been blown? we desperately need people blowing the whistle on people that retain high power and abuse it. the situation of the presidency since nixon has been one of shadow. bush's team decided they would not be caught, so they clamped down on leaks and press. is this the result of administrations being fearful of being caught? repub or demo, we ALL know there is behind the scene schananegans going on. why else the need for secracy unless it is a matter of national security and/or intelligence? unfortunate times, are these, when trust in government is so low because of such dealings.

Congrats on breaking 1000, riverc0il! :beer:

ChileMass · Jun 3, 2005

I am amazed - some people actually feel that G. Gordon Liddy was a good guy during Watergate?? And Bush Sr is pulling the strings in the background on Dubya? C'mon.....you don't really believe either of those things, do you......?

The media will make you believe anything.....

JimG. · Jun 3, 2005

ChileMass said:
I am amazed - some people actually feel that G. Gordon Liddy was a good guy during Watergate?? And Bush Sr is pulling the strings in the background on Dubya? C'mon.....you don't really believe either of those things, do you......?

The media will make you believe anything.....

I don't believe the media ever portrayed Liddy as a "good guy"; in fact, they portrayed him as a crook (which he was) and a bit of a psycho (somewhat true, but also part of his act). I have no idea if he is a "good guy".

What I do know is that he stood behind his boss and went to jail rather than tell what he knew; you know, if he was a reporter he would have been hailed as a champion of freedom of the press for not divulging what he knew!

I know he was misguided, but he was loyal to a fault and he took a bullet and went to a federal prison for several years rather than spill his guts. I don't know about you, but that's the type of person I'd want in a foxhole with me.

As for Bush senior, many who oppose Bush junior point to his apparent lack of intelligence. He certainly isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. It isn't odd that the same people who were in Bush senior's administration suddenly show up again 10 years later in Bush junior's administration?

Listen, I'm neither a donkey nor an elephant; I call it the way I see it, right or wrong.

Jaytrek57 · Jun 4, 2005

I know he was misguided, but he was loyal to a fault and he took a bullet and went to a federal prison for several years rather than spill his guts. I don't know about you, but that's the type of person I'd want in a foxhole with me.

I deal with this glorification all the time.

"Snitches get Stiches".

I don't know how others on this board believe...but if my "boss" is breaking the law, and it directly or indirectly affects me, I am first in line to report it.

If my buddy in the "foxhole" is doing things that put me at risk, I change "buddies" or "foxholes". And that is from someone that has been in foxholes (Army 88-96).

Say I'm not loyal, not a friend? Well, who are those people to do what they do.

Rant over.

ctenidae · Jun 6, 2005

There's a difference between someone doing something illegal not talking, and a reporter not revealing his osurces. Kind of tough to compare Liddy clamming up to Woodward and Bernstein not revealing their sources. For starters, Liddy was protecting crooks, W&B were outing them.

JimG. · Jun 6, 2005

Jaytrek57 said:
I deal with this glorification all the time.

"Snitches get Stiches".

I don't know how others on this board believe...but if my "boss" is breaking the law, and it directly or indirectly affects me, I am first in line to report it.

If my buddy in the "foxhole" is doing things that put me at risk, I change "buddies" or "foxholes". And that is from someone that has been in foxholes (Army 88-96).

Say I'm not loyal, not a friend? Well, who are those people to do what they do.

Rant over.

I said none of that, just that I'd rather deal with a Liddy type than a Felt type. Liddy broke the law, admitted what he did, but refused to say any more; spent time in jail for it. Felt chose to "speak out" in disguise and couldn't own up to it for 30 years. If he was so committed to the truth, why didn't he stand up and let himself be seen?

Sorry to get you so incensed, but it's just my opinion, and please don't imply it belongs to anyone else here but me.

JimG. · Jun 6, 2005

ctenidae said:
There's a difference between someone doing something illegal not talking, and a reporter not revealing his osurces. Kind of tough to compare Liddy clamming up to Woodward and Bernstein not revealing their sources. For starters, Liddy was protecting crooks, W&B were outing them.

Wasn't referring to W or B, 2 cub reporters who made themselves a big name on this story, just the media in general.

Interestingly, W and B never had to worry about revealing any sources since they didn't know who it was either.

"Deep Throat's" Legacy?

Now that we know that Mark Felt was "Deep Throat," who leaked information about Watergate,

He's a hero. He revealed corruption and helped bring people to justice.

He's a snitch. He should not have revealed that confidential information. Worse, he has led people

I'm undecided.

Trailboss, I don't watch Porn.

What was Watergate? Who's Deep Throat?

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