The "Sugarbush Thread"

As for the lifts stopping, most of those are not maintainance related. Most have to do with people getting on and off.

You've ridden those lifts and know there is little wrong with them. (I'd like a little more of a hill getting off Gatehouse,... but I digress. :wink: )

The problem is that some of the customers just don't pay attention or make mistakes. I've seen the lift ops do amazing things to get people to and on the lifts, but when things get questionable, they just have to error on the side of caution.

My only real problem with the way they run the lifts is the scanning crap. :roll: Can't tell you how many times they had one or two gates open with people lined onto the trail or to the tent. Why? They didn't have enough people to scan. :blink:

That is just dumb, because they could rearrange how they scan to open all the gates and scan as people turn the corner and head to the lift.

Oh... and as for their taking the trees out making it easier to get to Bravo or Gatehouse, it is still a big hill. You'd have to climb it to get across. Then, as you are heading down that hill toward Bravo, there would be those coming down Gondalier, heading toward the lodge or Gatehouse.

A new place for bad collisions. Luckily, patrol will be abel to get there quickly. :roll:

How to run the mountain..............

All: The concept of ASC as a large company, familiar with ski area management but not wishing to perform that function is right on. They actually did more for the bush than anyone else. Without ASC, the lift system would not be what it is today and although it goes down regularly, it allows you to ski the entire hill very easily and revolutionized SB skiing.

The idea that SV wants to run the hill but doesn't know how I feel is somewhat true. Leadership and basic know how is certainly lacking. There actually is no understanding of how to market SBs niche as a great mt with a quaint town. That appeals to certain skiers and SB needs to understand how to get those skiers to the hill and then keep them. Their marketing efforts have suffered for years and the inconsistency is clearly obvious and not helpful. Additionally, although advertising is extremely expensive, it is the key to getting the skiers they so much need to infuse some cash into the operation.

I have often asked: Can SV actually afford the ski area. They showed they could buy it, but affording it is much different. Basic maintenance is often lacking and I very much doubt I could go in and ask to see the Lift PM (preventative maintenance--a very common theme in most manufacturing facilities and like it or not it is a manufacturing facility with pumps, compressors, piping, motors,etc. A good PM system means a "purring plant" and that does not have unexpected breakdowns) schedule

Obviously, they are choosing minimal investment of their own capital, otherwise Claybrook would be off the ground and rolling. Unfortunately, in the ski business to be a major player, you need to be able to either self finance or be savy enough to get people to invest for you.............otherwise, they might consider going the Silverton way: Good terrain and not a lot of ammenities.

Now, the real question: Scarpa Denalli TT or Garmont Mega ride G-fit ?????????????. AHM

castlerock said:

2.) "ASC is the evil big ski company, but they sure could run a ski area".

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Well, I'm not trying to be that negative... obviously the bush experience 10 years ago was quite poor in lots of ways, I'm just pointing out that ASC had a lot of experience running ski areas before, though yes, they weren't amazing at it... the fact that they neglected the bush completely was the reason it really tanked... but yeah, if they still owned it, it would definitely be a much worse off place than it is today...

Re: How to run the mountain..............

AHM said:

Now, the real question: Scarpa Denalli TT or Garmont Mega ride G-fit ?????????????. AHM

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Try on a pair of the Garmont Adrenalins while you're at it...you won't be sorry.

And welcome aboard!

One of the many positives under Summit has been to put more of a focus on North. Bringing in a top manager, who BTW, worked at the Bush under the ASC regime and offering lower priced products to get skiers to take advantage of the improved Mt Ellen.

Both Win and Adam are always around the resort, they work very hard, are very approachable and open to ideas on how to make the resort better.

I would like to ask AZ members who ever worked at a resort and tell me everything worked perfectly all the time. Even LL Bean has its problems from time to time.

Jim G: Thanks for the tip on the Garmont adrenaline! The adrenaline is an alpine boot with a changable sole. It is not an AT boot by any stretch. Have tried them on, not nuts on them. Have a friend with them--ate his feet up during a week of touring in Rogers last year. Don't want an everyday boot, want an AT specific boot for AT activities when I am actually touring. Want the straight up Vibram sole cus after some tours there be rocks and stuff you have to walk on. Comes down really to fit and we'll find that out pretty soon. AHM

AHM said:

Jim G: Thanks for the tip on the Garmont adrenaline! The adrenaline is an alpine boot with a changable sole. It is not an AT boot by any stretch. Have tried them on, not nuts on them. Have a friend with them--ate his feet up during a week of touring in Rogers last year. Don't want an everyday boot, want an AT specific boot for AT activities when I am actually touring. Want the straight up Vibram sole cus after some tours there be rocks and stuff you have to walk on. Comes down really to fit and we'll find that out pretty soon. AHM

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Hey, welcome to the boards, AHM! Great to have you here.

AHM said:

Jim G: Thanks for the tip on the Garmont adrenaline! The adrenaline is an alpine boot with a changable sole. It is not an AT boot by any stretch. Have tried them on, not nuts on them. Have a friend with them--ate his feet up during a week of touring in Rogers last year. Don't want an everyday boot, want an AT specific boot for AT activities when I am actually touring. Want the straight up Vibram sole cus after some tours there be rocks and stuff you have to walk on. Comes down really to fit and we'll find that out pretty soon. AHM

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For me, it's the perfect AT boot. Yes, it is stiff like an alpine boot, especially laterally. But other than that, it's AT all the way. Hinged cuff, Vibram soles. Easy to hike in. The changeable soles are an added bonus.

Then again, I don't tour for a week at a time and I could see how a more traditional AT boot would be better for that. I've also got a pair of Scarpa Lasers but those are like ballet slippers; great for touring, not great on the downhill.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on what you want. As you've said, fit is the key. Both the Denali and the Mega-ride are great boots. I'm biased towards the Garmonts because they have the thermoformable liners.

Post Office Recycle Bin

See what I found in the Post Office Recycle Bin? Go to http://www.jpeterman.com click on Men's Shirts- notably, Mad River Plaid. (Maybe Mr. Moderator can post a proper link)

EDIT: Direct link - Mod.

thetrailboss said:

BTW...aren't we still waiting for SB's answers to the AZ challenge?

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We are. JJ did update me last week and said he is working on it...

Liftlines

I'd forced that nightmare out of my mind until just now. Comical! How about the separate gates for doubles, triples and quads at the SB and GH bases???? Besides me (I'm a lawyer and inclined to obey rules), who abides by those directions? Instead, a threesome will just scoot up the doubles line. The lift ops need to be much more aggressive forming up quads at both SB and GH base and holding back those that cut in. They do a good job elsewhere, I think.

Sorry about that...for some odd reason the URL function was not working...so I'm trying it again...

http://www.jpeterman.com/cgi-bin/sg...1085184&HTNAME=\html\jp-products/OM\1406.html

is the link to the Mad River plaid as described above.

Cut and paste it into your browser 'cause the address code is throwing off my linking capability.

thetrailboss said:

Sorry about that...for some odd reason the URL function was not working...so I'm trying it again...

http://www.jpeterman.com/cgi-bin/sg...1085184&HTNAME=\html\jp-products/OM\1406.html

is the link to the Mad River plaid as described above.

Cut and paste it into your browser 'cause the address code is throwing off my linking capability.

Click to expand...

I tried and had the same problem...glad it's not just me.

Re: Liftlines

Rustyfan said:

I'd forced that nightmare out of my mind until just now. Comical! How about the separate gates for doubles, triples and quads at the SB and GH bases???? Besides me (I'm a lawyer and inclined to obey rules), who abides by those directions? Instead, a threesome will just scoot up the doubles line. The lift ops need to be much more aggressive forming up quads at both SB and GH base and holding back those that cut in. They do a good job elsewhere, I think.

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This is an entirely useless "innovation" for them last year. No one followed the rules b/c it becomes this cluster f*ck where groups are trying to get past each other into the right lane (if they've even bothered to look) in the midst of a big crowd. It should be scrapped. The scanning should definitely occur AFTER each group is formed and have made the turn for the chair.

If it's true that they're not putting any money into preventative maintenance, that's a bad sign for sure. Wasn't Ackland's role in SV supposed to be Mr. Ops guy with years of experience running a ski are in the Valley? Has he alienated so many people in his short tenure that he had to bemoved to resort ops to keep him away from employees? Is the reorg over the summer with Hardy Merrill taking over day-to-day running of the mtn going to be a positive? Looks like he did a great job at North last year.

Ackland

I'm not an Ackland basher, but I really don't think he's the guy for that position. He can be brusque and off-putting, which aren't characteristics you generally find in a manager of a big operation. I think he's a valuable asset to the mountain, but not in that role.

JimG. said:

thetrailboss said:

Sorry about that...for some odd reason the URL function was not working...so I'm trying it again...

http://www.jpeterman.com/cgi-bin/sg...1085184&HTNAME=\html\jp-products/OM\1406.html

is the link to the Mad River plaid as described above.

Cut and paste it into your browser 'cause the address code is throwing off my linking capability.

Click to expand...

I tried and had the same problem...glad it's not just me.

Click to expand...

Try THIS

http://www.jpeterman.com/cgi-bin/sg...1085184&HTNAME=/html/jp-products/OM/1406.html

Hey Noski... I have both of those shirts!

For a whole lot less than $78, tho. :wink: :lol:

Running a resort profitably is very tough. It's a business similar to an airline: high ongoing need for capital re-investment, yet no ability to raise prices much without losing your crowd. I think Win and Adam are doing a fine job considering the challenge. It's great to see them both out there every day, working the grounds and riding lifts with guests. Their hearts are in it. The gripes most of us have are a lot of old stories that, frankly, can't practically be fixed without a big capital infusion. The returns on that infusion would be limited, given the difficulty of developing anything in the valley. They're just trying to raise skier numbers while spending the least possible. I don't blame them at all. A problem is that given that situation, they should NEVER allow their customers to think they're being cheap. Customers are very smart at detecting any slight change in the direction of a weaker experience.

castlerock said:

daevious said:

Ha! This is now EXACTLY like the old RSN thread

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3.) The Bush is mismanaged by the "Bob Newhart" of the ski business!
This is the most frustrating as it is really meanspirited in its ignorance. What do you want, Donald Trump?

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They lost Rob after what? six months? They lost Bruce who had been there for ages and did a miraculous job providing pretty good on mountain dining with the poorest facilities imaginable. Both of these important managers left within the past yar and a half.

The saying goes (and I believe it to be true) employees don't leave companies - they leave managers. That's why I made the Newheart comment. It wasn't meanspirited, it was based upon what I see, which is two very bright executive level operations guys walking away from Sugarbush because of their frustration with the new ownership. The grumbling I've heard from the line level associates only solidifies why I made that statement.