The "Sugarbush Thread"

cdskier · Oct 22, 2019

mikec142 said:
I think MC was 449 initially and you got to add a third free day at any one resort. So say I choose SB. That gives me three days at SB for $449 (plus tax). If I add a quad pack for $260 (that includes tax) that would give me 7 days at SB for $709 ($101/day). If I added 2 more quad packs for a total of 15 ski days, it still leaves me at $82/day.

Are those 15 ski days just for you? If so, a season pass at that point is a better value. Right now an SB season pass is $1200 (and we're already at the 2nd price increase for it I think). One benefit of an SB pass is also that you get 50% off prices at all the other Mountain Collective resorts. So in a situation where you're not sure whether you're going west or not, that benefit being there at no extra cost either way could work out. Of course in the east you're locking yourself into SB, but by buying so many quad packs you're doing the same thing anyway.

There is clear value to me if I know I'm going out west, but right now, it doesn't seem to make sense. I looked at the math on Ikon and Epic as well. Unfortunately, it seems to me that if I don't know about going out west, the economics don't make sense.

Yea, if you don't know for sure it makes the decision more challenging. No doubt about it.

mikec142 · Oct 22, 2019

cdskier said:
Are those 15 ski days just for you? If so, a season pass at that point is a better value. Right now an SB season pass is $1200 (and we're already at the 2nd price increase for it I think). One benefit of an SB pass is also that you get 50% off prices at all the other Mountain Collective resorts. So in a situation where you're not sure whether you're going west or not, that benefit being there at no extra cost either way could work out. Of course in the east you're locking yourself into SB, but by buying so many quad packs you're doing the same thing anyway.

Yea, if you don't know for sure it makes the decision more challenging. No doubt about it.

Right now, I buy between 12-20 days via quad pack for SB and split them among me, my wife and two teenage kids. Let's say, at best, that 10 of the days at SB are used by me. Tough to go the season pass route.

I truly love skiing at SB. But living 5.5 hours away and having kids with active social lives and a wife who likes to ski but doesn't love to ski, makes it hard to make a commitment to any of the passes.

I envy your commitment to making the trip on a regular basis. It seems like you have a place up there (super jealous) which makes things easier. Hopefully someday...gotta pay for college first.

FWIW, no matter what I do, it never seems to be right. So last year, I woulda have come out on top if I bought the Ikon pass for me and two quad packs for the family. But I wasn't planning on going to Utah and it happened last minute. Plus, last year, I overbought quad packs and locked myself into SB and didn't get to ski MRG. This year I bought 60% of the quad packs as the previous year and mark my words, we will have used them up by the end of Christmas (assuming good snow) and then I'll be stuck!!

Plowboy · Oct 22, 2019

Not sure if this has been posted?? Bethel Mountain Road(Camp Brook road) is finally open!!!

bdfreetuna · Oct 22, 2019

Plowboy said:
Not sure if this has been posted?? Bethel Mountain Road(Camp Brook road) is finally open!!!

I'm just gonna assume I'll be mud-bogging the Subie just the same as when it was "closed" ...

2 years ago I was up on that road with an Xterra and the X turned around. I made it in the Legacy GT :lol: ... no damage to speak of, a good bit of mud though. Those washboard ruts were killer but even with lowering spring the Subie handled it.

1dog · Oct 22, 2019

Bethel Mt Road - pretty frost-heaved - but not dirt - are we talking about Rox Gap Rd?

East side of that can get rutty in the flats - my Saab does it w snows - as long as one stays on the topf of the rut lines - very challenging - look forward to it - kinda like a little too much speed in Rumble Woods . . . or even top of Grotto

Did they re-pave BMR?

1dog · Oct 22, 2019

miklec142,

you'd fit in nicely at our ski house - most of us - no wait - all of us have sometimes ski-spouses, teens w full social and school schedules, and 2/3 of the 3/4 weekends a month we are spouse-free.

If you purchased early season pass your 10 days would be at $85 ( $850, or was it $799?)

1st year my 16 yr old didn't get a pass at $369 - she skied 3 days due to competition in club sports back home.

It's not an ad for the house ( I have one on this forum) but for $2500 or so you get a place to stay Nov-April and a pass, and mid week it;s all empty for those fortunate enough to take time. Maybe next year - 5 hours - we have 3.5 - needs an early start Fri and a very early start Monday morning - coming that far its best to travel with friends to split driving too.

I've had that never gotting it right feeling too - one year - when she got pregant with my 9 yr old - was 1st and only year I purchased season pass for her - they reimbursed us - thats how they treat loyal customers - always have. I ate 4 Quad passes last year after giving some to customers and two more to friends/guests. Happens too often. Still $65 right?

Anyway - come up as guests some weekend - cheap way to go. Got teens and good cooks too.

I purchased MC two yrs ago - got 7 'free' at Revel/Lake Loiuse/Sunshine - record snow year there. My ski house group who came with us - just paid half price w no May outlay of $400 early pass price.

Each place was apprx $100 so I'm going with half price rom now on.

cdskier · Oct 22, 2019

mikec142 said:
Right now, I buy between 12-20 days via quad pack for SB and split them among me, my wife and two teenage kids. Let's say, at best, that 10 of the days at SB are used by me. Tough to go the season pass route.

I truly love skiing at SB. But living 5.5 hours away and having kids with active social lives and a wife who likes to ski but doesn't love to ski, makes it hard to make a commitment to any of the passes.

I envy your commitment to making the trip on a regular basis. It seems like you have a place up there (super jealous) which makes things easier. Hopefully someday...gotta pay for college first.

That scenario does make it tough to go the season pass route. I bought a place up there 8 years ago which does make things easier. I live 5 hours away, but no kids and no wife so that certainly makes things a little simpler in terms of planning. As long as the weather looks good, I can just go. First year I had the condo I only skied 9 days at SB (combination of a terrible winter that ended early along with trying to "plan" too much). I learned from those mistakes and now I've hit 40+ days in 5 of the 7 seasons since then.

Plowboy · Oct 22, 2019

1dog said:
Bethel Mt Road - pretty frost-heaved - but not dirt - are we talking about Rox Gap Rd?

East side of that can get rutty in the flats - my Saab does it w snows - as long as one stays on the topf of the rut lines - very challenging - look forward to it - kinda like a little too much speed in Rumble Woods . . . or even top of Grotto

Did they re-pave BMR?

Parts have been repaved, a big section just above Rochester was totally redone. We went over Friday and Saturday, It's in pretty good shape.

WinS · Oct 23, 2019

tumbler said:
Incorrect. The water for South was pumped from Clay Brook at the Golf Course and there was a small intake at the old gondola building. South had very little snowmaking then. Les built the Mad River intake and pond and put in snowmaking all over the mountain. North was the snowmaking mountain of SB before Les.

Correct

WinS · Oct 23, 2019

I do not look at Alpine Zone during the warmer months that frequently but will start to again as opening day approaches. If anyone wants to reach out directly my email is wsmith@sugarbush.com. Think Snow!

And yes, the Quad Pack is good for those who only visit here a few days each season. There are no blackouts and they are transferable.
It pays to shop. Skiing has become very affordable if you search. The MC is a great deal for those chasing the powder.

jimmywilson69 · Oct 24, 2019

without a doubt others will chime in, but your willingness to chat with us internet ski aficionados is greatly appreciated.

bdfreetuna · Oct 24, 2019

WinS said:
And yes, the Quad Pack is good for those who only visit here a few days each season. There are no blackouts and they are transferable. It pays to shop. Skiing has become very affordable if you search. The MC is a great deal for those chasing the powder.

$70 a day for a $279 quad pack is almost as bad as $129 walk up rate.

Currently there's a few affordable options for Sugarbush that are 50% off (Ride and Ski Card, hopefully again this year), BOGO (Mountain Sports Club) or about $45 (Ski Vermont). Maybe some ski club deals too.

How about making one or two of the weekdays a "cheap ticket day" when the crowds are low?

Edit: I realize after posting this $30 Thursday at Mt Ellen. That's exactly what I'm talking about -- beautiful. I hope to work that into my plans this season. How about a $60 Tuesday for the whole place?

cdskier · Oct 24, 2019

bdfreetuna said:
$70 a day for a $279 quad pack is almost as bad as $129 walk up rate.

Currently there's a few affordable options for Sugarbush that are 50% off (Ride and Ski Card, hopefully again this year), BOGO (Mountain Sports Club) or about $45 (Ski Vermont). Maybe some ski club deals too.

You're ok with 50% off from the Ride and Ski card, but 46% off from a quad pack isn't good? There was a cheaper "Quad Pass" earlier as well either the end of the summer or early Fall (difference from the Quad Pack being the "Pass" is non-transferable and can only be used by 1 person).

mikec142 · Oct 24, 2019

cdskier said:
You're ok with 50% off from the Ride and Ski card, but 46% off from a quad pack isn't good? There was a cheaper "Quad Pass" earlier as well either the end of the summer or early Fall (difference from the Quad Pack being the "Pass" is non-transferable and can only be used by 1 person).

Yeah...I thought Tuna's post was odd..."$70 is almost as bad as walk up of $129". That's some pretty funky new math there.

Earlier in the season there was the four pass for $239. Kicker being non-transferable and need to be used by the same person. Which for me is perfect. Then there was the loyalty quad pack for previous buyers for $259 (fully transferable) and now we are at the normal quad pack at $279.

Also, the Ski and Ride card...does it have blackout dates? I'm assuming it does (could be wrong).

Bottom line is the quad packs from Sugarbush in any of the iterations is a pretty good deal for non-blackout tickets.

bdfreetuna · Oct 24, 2019

mikec142 said:
Yeah...I thought Tuna's post was odd

Comes naturally

Ride and Ski Card 50% off is only good for weekdays. So it's half off a lower rate, probably around $50 or so. Sugarbush is on my no-no list on weekends due to lift lines and crowds.

If someone who owns a ski resort wants to come on the forum that's fine, it's ultimately his job to passively defend having a $129 window rate and point out there are less expensive options.

46% off $129 is still 46% off $129. Just raise the price to $200 and call it 70% off, sounds better right.

I have no problem being the biggest cheapskate if that's how it is

crazy · Oct 24, 2019

bdfreetuna said:
Comes naturally

Ride and Ski Card 50% off is only good for weekdays. So it's half off a lower rate, probably around $50 or so. Sugarbush is on my no-no list on weekends due to lift lines and crowds.

If someone who owns a ski resort wants to come on the forum that's fine, it's ultimately his job to passively defend having a $129 window rate and point out there are less expensive options.

46% off $129 is still 46% off $129. Just raise the price to $200 and call it 70% off, sounds better right.

I have no problem being the biggest cheapskate if that's how it is

If you bought the 4-pack over the summer it was just under $60/ticket. That feels very reasonable to me for a large, multimillion dollar operation like Sugarbush that has tons of terrain, one of the biggest vertical drops in the east, a quality snowmaking system, fancy lodges (at least at Lincoln), etc. There are plenty of smaller, struggling ski resorts who lack some of the things that I just mentioned, but who have plenty to offer, who would love your business. For a lot less. You are the one choosing to go to one of the big resorts!

Look, if you can commit to one resort for the season, you can get an incredible per day rate. If you can't commit to one resort, it costs more. I don't see a problem with that. For example, if you're a 40 year old skier who visits Sugarbush 25 times in a season, your per day rate is $34. That's stupid cheap. If you're younger than 40 or older than 65, your per day rate is already going to be a lot lower.

We're moving to a system where you can get fantastic deals by assuming some risk. If you don't assume any risk, you pay more. For people that ski a lot, this system generally works out pretty well. Resort season passes, multi-resort passes (Epic, Ikon), deals like the Ski VT 4 pack and the MyChamplainValley card, and Liftopia deals represent very reasonable ways to ski affordably.

Plus, let's talk about the elephant in the room: skiing requires a lot more expense than just the lift tickets! Gear is expensive, especially if we're talking about people who are new to the sport. Transportation is very expensive. Not just gas, but depreciation is a hidden expense that few consider. Also opportunity cost: if skiing affects your decisions around where to live, what job to take, that all has a cost.

I don't feel any special compulsion to defend Sugarbush, I just feel like these ticket price arguments get blown way out of proportion.

bdfreetuna · Oct 24, 2019

I mainly do go where I can go affordably. Bolton Valley and Burke get a lot of visits from me on that exact point.

I go to S-bush on average 1x a year, I'll probably do so again on a Ski VT pass this spring.

Stand by the point that $129 tickets in Vermont is laughable. It seems like Stowe gets more heat for jacking prices than Sugarbush, I think it's mainly a loyal base of season pass holders here who like to defend S-Bush.

Anyway, I'm gonna back out of this thread -- as a 1x a year S-bush skier I have very little stake in this. Also I intend to avoid pointless arguments if I'm back on AlpineZone for a while. I like the threads about glades and woods a lot better. Seeya!

mikec142 · Oct 24, 2019

crazy said:
If you bought the 4-pack over the summer it was just under $60/ticket. That feels very reasonable to me for a large, multimillion dollar operation like Sugarbush that has tons of terrain, one of the biggest vertical drops in the east, a quality snowmaking system, fancy lodges (at least at Lincoln), etc. There are plenty of smaller, struggling ski resorts who lack some of the things that I just mentioned, but who have plenty to offer, who would love your business. For a lot less. You are the one choosing to go to one of the big resorts!

Look, if you can commit to one resort for the season, you can get an incredible per day rate. If you can't commit to one resort, it costs more. I don't see a problem with that. For example, if you're a 40 year old skier who visits Sugarbush 25 times in a season, your per day rate is $34. That's stupid cheap. If you're younger than 40 or older than 65, your per day rate is already going to be a lot lower.

We're moving to a system where you can get fantastic deals by assuming some risk. If you don't assume any risk, you pay more. For people that ski a lot, this system generally works out pretty well. Resort season passes, multi-resort passes (Epic, Ikon), deals like the Ski VT 4 pack and the MyChamplainValley card, and Liftopia deals represent very reasonable ways to ski affordably.

Plus, let's talk about the elephant in the room: skiing requires a lot more expense than just the lift tickets! Gear is expensive, especially if we're talking about people who are new to the sport. Transportation is very expensive. Not just gas, but depreciation is a hidden expense that few consider. Also opportunity cost: if skiing affects your decisions around where to live, what job to take, that all has a cost.

I don't feel any special compulsion to defend Sugarbush, I just feel like these ticket price arguments get blown way out of proportion.

Agree completely. Well said.

cdskier · Oct 24, 2019

bdfreetuna said:
Ride and Ski Card 50% off is only good for weekdays. So it's half off a lower rate, probably around $50 or so. Sugarbush is on my no-no list on weekends due to lift lines and crowds.

Actually the weekday rate is the same as the weekend rate now. Holidays are the only time there's a different rate (last year it was 119 non-holiday vs 129 holiday). So no, you won't be paying around $50 or so for a mid-week day even with a 50% off Ski and Ride card. Other than the Ski VT deal (which sells out in minutes), you're really not going to find a better deal at SB for day tickets than one of the "Quad" products. And everyone I personally know that purchases/uses them finds them pretty reasonable for a resort the size of SB.

bdfreetuna · Oct 24, 2019

cdskier said:
Actually the weekday rate is the same as the weekend rate now.

okie doke y'all enjoy!

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