The "Sugarbush Thread" - Page 4

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    Quote Originally Posted by awf170
    is that you strat




    i need a snazzy new avatar
    Not exactly digging your kitty there, but to each his own, haha...
    That hurts

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by awf170
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    Quote Originally Posted by awf170
    is that you strat


    i need a snazzy new avatar
    Not exactly digging your kitty there, but to each his own, haha...
    That hurts
    Hah, just kidding austin... do prefer the new one though...

  3. #33

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    heres a cool one i found

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by awf170
    heres a cool one i found
    Tres tres cool.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Strat
    Good questions Tin, though I'm not sure he'll get to them - hopefully, like many AZ Challenge responders, he'll come on here after... a few thoughts of my own:

    1) In my opinion, having a more accessible lift going to that part of the mountain will in my opinion cut down on much of the traffic on the Valley House Traverse, and thus, at least partially solve the ice and traffic problems up there now. Those who want a quick ride to Stein's/Snowball/Eden/what have you are now going to have an easy, fast option to get to those trails, instead of the pain in the @$$ shlep that it is right now to get there. They won't even need to traverse over from bravo. Those who want to access trails on the bravo side will just ride bravo. Because of this, I think that actually will help the problems of the intersection at the top of the current VH, by splitting the traffic to different sides of the mountain. Valley House Traverse will become much less used, though I think that Reverse Traverse will see more use, by people who didn't want to wait in the Bravo lines who still want to get over to that side and access Heaven's Gate/Castlerock. However, seeing as the VHQ will get less traffic than Bravo, and thus, shorter lines pretty much all the time, it seems unlikely that the same principle would work in reverse, that is, people doing the current option of taking Bravo and traversing over. In regards to overloading trail capacity on that side of the mountain: yes, that could be an issue, but I just don't see people flocking to that side of the mountain just because it's easy - it's just as easy to go up Super Bravo, which accesses much more terrain. I think that there will really be the same amount of people coming to the Valley House side of the mountain as there are now, they'll just be able to get there a little easier, and without the traffic problems that currently plague the top of the Valley House. So I think an HSQ for the Valley House is actually a good idea: the problem with congestion at the top of the lift is solved, and people have an easier and more enjoyable time getting there - I just don't see the name as applicable anymore, seeing as there will no longer be a Valley House.

    2) Just pointing out that a trail from the top of Middle Earth to the North Lynx base would be far from a traverse - that would be quite steep in places. However, a much shorter, flatter option would be parallel to the upper portion of Castlerock Connection, just a bit above it; a small bridge would probably be required, as it would cross a stream. Such a trail would involve funneling more people through Castlerock though, where many people don't want to be, and would only solve the problem of only one way existing to Slide Brook/North Lynx for Castlerock skiers.

    3) I agree, Allyn's Lodge could definitely use expansion, though that might require knocking down a portion of it; unfortunately, that's kinda on the back burner at the moment, seeing as what they're busy with now...

    4) I agree about the warming hut too - put that giant trail map and tables inside there, give people a place to chill (er, warm up). Even a yurt would probably suffice. That seems like a much easier point to address than Allyn's.
    I see your point on #1, but I'm not sure I agree. HSQs are sexy marketing beasts for a reason - they draw traffic. Even if the lift-line is so long that an adjacent fixed-grip lift provides a faster ride to the top, people will still pile into the HSQ line b/c of the perceived benefits. I believe that while you'd a decrease in traffic from people coming over on the VH traverse, you'd see a lot more in that area in general, probably taken from the SB, GH, and NL lifts. Most of the people drawn to this lift won't the the experts who already love that pod for its classic New England trails and bump lines, but beginners and intermediates who think the HSQ is sexy and want to access Snowball/Spring Fling more easily. I think those trails will become a disaster while Moonshine, being the only other intermediate trail in the area, will get over run with people in over their head on a trail that skis a lot harder than mot blue squares. Even worse, I could see this leading to the installation of snowmaking on Moonshine, Twist and the Mall, which would really ruin the quality of skiing on those fantastic natural trails. They can be boney at times with their low elevation, but when the snow is decent, there are few better trails on the mountain.

    2) I see your point regarding a possible Castlerock/North Lynx connector - my muted route would be way to steep. Regardless, some sort of connector, be it lower down on Middle Earth, or terminating higher up on Birch Run, would have value. I would prefer the latter option b/c if you can start the traverse before ME makes that right turn down the fall line, you are essentially avoiding the toughest parts of that trail. And, as you point out, it would help address the problem I raise. It would probably draw more people to Castlerock at the margin, but that's not going to make a huge impact b/c the lift has so little capacity anyway. Regardless, it would be nice for some who has come over from North to be able to get to and from Castlerock, SB's signature terrain, more easily than at present, before returnign from whence they came.

    3) I don't think you'd necessarily have to knock down portions of the current Allyn's Lodge to expand it. Why not add space downhill of where the ski patrol room is? Modification of the roof would be needed for sure, but I don't know if you'd have to do a great degree of damage to the beautiful existing structure to add space. Make it shaped like a "T" or "L" with the additiona oriented N to S and encomassing the area where the ski racks and back deck are. Also, why not expand the part of the deck that faces South for a grea lunch spot in Feb and March?

  6. #36
    Lostone's Avatar
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    1) I think a HSQ is going to be terrible to that side of the hill. There will be way too many people on Snowball. It will become an ice rink.

    b) I ain't riding Castlerock to ski North Lynx!

    III) There's some room for expansion out back, but my biggest wish for the lodge would be better food service, which is already started, but needs to be improved.

    I think the size of it limiting the crowd is a good thing. It is nice to have a cozy oldge, and when it is too crowded, there are others. I'd rather have to find them at times than hurt the ambience of what we have.
    .
    .
    Look! Up in the sky!


    .

  7. #37
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
    Also, I'm kind of bummed that I missed the opportunity to ask questions in this thread, b/c SB is my home mountain. That's what I get for not looking at AZ for a few days. What the heck - I'll throw some out anyway and see if JJ can get to them.
    Yep, important to keep an eye on things

    Luckily I've been so busy lately that I have yet to send the questions out, so I can add them for you
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  8. #38
    noski's Avatar
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    SB/MRG joint passes

    Quote Originally Posted by skibum1321
    Quote Originally Posted by JimG.
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss
    Good question! I figure they'll tell you what they've said to us all along...'we offer a great product, blah, blah,' and not consider this deal. MRG is not up to their standards and Stowe is their main competition.
    Yes, I would not ever look for SB and MRG to do anything jointly. 2 completely different ski areas regardless of geography, and 2 completely different clienteles that do not see eye to eye on anything.

    Personally, I think it would be a bad thing and would prefer they stay separate.
    Actually, after the Big Pass there was the Huge Pass which included Jay, MRG and the Bush. It was a college deal yet again.
    Actually MRG & SB do offer a joint Ski The Valley pass, that also can be used at Ole's. However it is meant to drive midweek overnight stays, so can only be obtained as part of a lodging package....

  9. #39
    Luckily I've been so busy lately that I have yet to send the questions out, so I can add them for you
    Thanks trailboss. Good show.

    Lostone -

    I wouldn't ride Castlerock to get to North Lynx per se. There are two situations where I'd make an exception. First, if I was skiing in the Castlerock pod already and wanted/needed to get to North Lynx/Slide Brook Express/top of Gate House, why would I want to ski to the bottom of Castlerock and the runout, hoof it over to Gate House and then wait in that line before riding the lift? That's a 20-30 minute trek. Or what if Gate House is closed due to mechanical reasons? Happened once that I recall on a busy weekend this year. I wanted to hit North Lynx area for a few runs (others needed to get back to North) and I was SOL. I could have made it over there via Castlerock. Sure it would have taken a good 30-45 mins by the time I got up Super Bravo and down then up Castlerock, but it's better than sitting around or waiting in line for the shuttle to North.

    Regardless, I'm of the opinion that the more people you can keep on the upper mountain, the better off you'll be in general. The only lifts that see crowds consistently are Gate House and Super Bravo - why not try and alleviate that to the greatest degree possible while improving mountain circulation and convenience?

    And as for Allyn's - yeaa, it's a space issue as much as it's a food service quality issue. That one person up there gets overwhelmed with everyone seeking shelter from the cold on those brutal Jan/Feb days. Then the food runs out fairly quickly and everyone gets upset. My girlfriend waited in line for 30 minutes one Saturday last year. For a wet sandwich and a banana. That isn't acceptable under any circumstances for a busines that is in the hospitality industry and not named Disney.

  10. #40
    Reading over various posts... starting to agree about the valley house HSQ idea... glad that got in the challenge, looking forward to seeing the responses...

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