Should ski patrollers be required to wear helmets???

JD · Dec 15, 2008

Just searching around for ski realted deaths. Any page I found that listed causes of death indicated pretty clearly that head trauma is the main reason. I don't really care if other people wear them, and I don't really care if patrolers wear them, but I find it amazing that this piece of gear is not madatory for patrolers, and even general public. And two, as someone who didn't used to wear one, and now does and has for some time...I recognized they are warmer, when it's cold, and way better in he woods.

catskills · Dec 15, 2008

When I am wearing the ski patrol parka with the white cross, I only wear my helmet on really cold days. Ski Patrol work many times requires hard work that generates lots of body heat. For example, skating a sled on the flats pulling a 280lb patient in the toboggan is hard work and your body builds up heat fast. To get rid of that heat when doing many different ski patrol tasks is very easy to just take the knit hat off and tuck it in my jacket. Helmets impair hearing. Its important to be able to look listen and feel. On a steep slope, if I take my helmet off to do patient care its going to slide down hill. For me, the helmet is one less thing I have to worry about when working on patients. Like I said, when its real cold out, there is nothing like a helmet to keep you warm. BTW I have the Giro helmet with lots of vents.

When I ski on my personal time, I wear a helmet almost everyday except very late spring skiing.

My vote is NO (personal choice).

BTW I think I would be safer if I was required to wear my helmet while driving to the ski area rather than wearing it while skiing. Over 40,000 deaths on the highways in the USA every year. Compared to 30-40 deaths each year on the slopes in the USA. You want to save lives, figure out a way to make cars and trucks safer.

SKIQUATTRO · Dec 15, 2008

its amazing the care people taking in making sure their personal posessions are in safe and working order, but dont think their brain fits into that category....

billski · Dec 15, 2008

RootDKJ said:
It's interesting to note the percentage differences between AZ and PASR on this topic

Yes
PASR - 68.75%
AZ - 52.5%

No
PASR - 31.25%
AZ - 47.5%

Me thinks it has more to do with the resorts frequented and clientele each attracts. I would expect that the areas close to metropolitan areas have the most ill-behaved clientele.

In those areas patrol is forced to act more like a lunch-room monitor, whereas at a place like Sugarbush, Sunday River etc. the patrol attends more to accidents and the like.

It would be interesting to contrast the PASR and AZ in terms of resorts where they most often ski. That may explain a lot of the disparity.

davidhowland14 · Dec 15, 2008

catskills said:
To get rid of that heat when doing many different ski patrol tasks is very easy to just take the knit hat off and tuck it in my jacket.

It's also easy to take off a helmet and clip it to your belt.

Helmets impair hearing. Its important to be able to look listen and feel. On a steep slope, if I take my helmet off to do patient care its going to slide down hill. For me, the helmet is one less thing I have to worry about when working on patients.

When I ski on my personal time, I wear a helmet almost everyday except very late spring skiing.

Scene and rescuer safety. Isn't it more important to keep yourself safe so that you can help patients than to worry about your helmet sliding down hill? Aren't you gonna go down the hill yourself anyways?

My vote is NO (personal choice).

BTW I think I would be safer if I was required to wear my helmet while driving to the ski area rather than wearing it while skiing. Over 40,000 deaths on the highways in the USA every year. Compared to 30-40 deaths each year on the slopes in the USA. You want to save lives, figure out a way to make cars and trucks safer.

Yeah, but that's not the point. You wear your seatbelt, don't you? That's an option. You know, if you car flips over and bursts into flame, you'll be able to get out of the car faster without a seatbelt. But you still wear one, don't you?

danny p · Dec 15, 2008

JD said:
And two, as someone who didn't used to wear one, and now does and has for some time...I recognized they are warmer, when it's cold, and way better in he woods.

+1

I dont care if patrollers wear them or not, but I won't go out without mine, except for super warm soft spring days. Hard to believe 12 out of my 14 seasons I was sooo against them.

Moe Ghoul · Dec 15, 2008

SKIQUATTRO said:
its amazing the care people taking in making sure their personal posessions are in safe and working order, but dont think their brain fits into that category....

I'm not that surprised when I see arguments like "personal choice", which ignores the safety issue altogether, "sweating" or pulling in auto related deaths. Much like any other "personal choice" issues like smoking, MC helmets and seatbelts, unless it is mandated, people will make that "choice". I didn't start wearing a helmet until about 3 years ago. For no other reason than I am getting older, sensing my mortality a bit more, realizing that a brain injury could put us in the poor house and feeling a sense of personal responsibility. Taking a helmet off on a steep slope and placing it on a pole seems to solve the slippage problem while assisting an injured skier. Besides, helmets are replaceable, brain injury could be permanent.

dmc · Dec 15, 2008

Given the chance... . With all the "rules" you guys want to impose on people.... You would suck the very soul out of skiing..

I really pine for the "old days"... When we were a crazy bunch not all filled with rules and straight laced dogma... I bet 75% of this board would want the guys from "Hot Dog" banned from skiing at their area... Instead of celebrating their craziness as a part of the culture.....

There is hardly ever not a thread here that is judging someone or something...

Start the flames...

Beetlenut · Dec 15, 2008

I'd vote yes, because ski patrol does set an example and does represent the mountain, and are on some type of compensation. For all those people so adamantly
opposed to helmets, I'd bet they havent take a bad fall where they've hit their heads, .... yet! Hell why stop at helmets, why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problems solve thenselves?

dmc · Dec 15, 2008

Moe Ghoul said:
I'm not that surprised when I see arguments like "personal choice", which ignores the safety issue altogether

Beetlenut said:
Hell why stop at helmets, why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problems solve thenselves?

Cool... If you guys had your way - we'd all be bundled up like fake sumo wrestlers...

Spine protectors keep paralysis from occurring..
Wrist protectors will stop a broken wrists...
Bindings that are allowed to be set high can lead to busted knees...
Not wearing goggles can lead to eye injury or loss...
Skis not tuned will make you slip into the woods...

Oh... and skiing is a dangerous sport... fyi....

sledhaulingmedic · Dec 15, 2008

I find the issue of removing the helmet while give care to be an interesting concept. One of my initial reasons for getting a brain bucket was fear of getting hit when working an incident. Afterall, your stopped and in a situation where you are concentrating on something other than situational awareness.

I keep hearing about loosing the bucket in the spring. That's why I have two: A Leedom for winter and a Marker, w/o ear coverage for the spring.

As said before, I'm a proponant of helmets and safety in general. I'm not big on loss of personal choice. In the end, I'll do what management says. If I disagree that strongly, I'll quit. I've been on several patrols over the years, and I choose where I patrol on a number of factors, with the general work environment being a big one.

Beetlenut · Dec 15, 2008

dmc said:
Cool... If you guys had your way - we'd all be bundled up like fake sumo wrestlers......

Nope, just you! We wouldn't want to loose that nostalgic man on the street view you so lovingly cling to! :wink:

Superbman · Dec 15, 2008

I patrol, I wear a helmet..

but I'm against anything mandatory. It's a choice-I think getting more patrollers up to speed with ski-skills would do more for their general safety than forcing every old codger on the hill to don a helmet (that or wrap them in bubble wrap).

dmc · Dec 15, 2008

Beetlenut said:
Nope, just you! We wouldn't want to loose that nostalgic man on the street view you so lovingly cling to! :wink:

We had good times... none of this "you should do this or that" crap....

Speaking of dangerous...
http://forums.alpinezone.com/44307-old-school-2.html#post362847
I hope you "Neo-New School" guys pile on this one..

Moe Ghoul · Dec 15, 2008

Superbman said:
I patrol, I wear a helmet..

but I'm against anything mandatory. It's a choice-I think getting more patrollers up to speed with ski-skills would do more for their general safety than forcing every old codger on the hill to don a helmet (that or wrap them in bubble wrap).

There's a point of diminishing return for safety features. Ideally, wearing a Batman suit should offer ultimate protection against injury but who wants to ski in that? If safety equipment ends up hindering enjoyment, flex, agility, etc. then it isn't worth the trade off. That said, a helmet seems to be the least intrusive, best bang for the buck protectionwise. The choice argument seems to be more about principle and less about safety. I still haven't seen a non-helmet argument that outweighs the safety factor. If somebody argued that the risk of serious head injury is extremely remote (witness all the skiers that are doing just fine without one) and few folks intentionally hit trees or do intentional headers into rockbeds, that's one thing. Simply proffering choice doesn't really address the safety or risk issue. Jeez, this thread could get borderline political....Mods are closely monitoring, lol.

dmc · Dec 15, 2008

Moe Ghoul said:
That said, a helmet seems to be the least intrusive, best bang for the buck protectionwise.

Eye protection too...
And back protection...
And wrist protection...
And ass protection..
And face guards..
And transceivers out west too..

All non-intrusive.. All non-mandatory..

Beetlenut · Dec 15, 2008

dmc said:
We had good times... none of this "you should do this or that" crap......

I hear ya. I remember spending all day on a 200' hill with a rope tow and not wanting to leave. Everything seemed to be better back then, as remembered from today. There have been some worth while improvements during that time though, to make the sport more enjoyable/safe. A helmet IMO is one of them. But I also believe in Darwinism too.

dmc · Dec 15, 2008

Beetlenut said:
But I also believe in Darwinism too.

So you believe that people that don't wear helmets will die and people that wear helmets will be naturally selected to survive as some sort of master race?

Darwinism would be more like... People that develop harder heads will survive... Darwin speaks of natural selection...

For the record... I know 2 guys who died from head injuries with helmets on...
Above higher speeds... they will just insure you leave a good looking corpse...

That being said I do wear a helmet - most of the time...

SkiDork · Dec 15, 2008

just a slightly different angle here, FWIW...

If a safety device (like a helmet) exists and is easily available, and you "personally choose" not to wear it, thats OK with me. However, if you end up getting an injury that would have been prevented by using that safety device. you should forego all medical insurance coverage for that accident and pay out of pocket. Does that sound fair?

dmc · Dec 15, 2008

SkiDork said:
just a slightly different angle here, FWIW...

If a safety device (like a helmet) exists and is easily available, and you "personally choose" not to wear it, thats OK with me. However, if you end up getting an injury that would have been prevented by using that safety device. you should forego all medical insurance coverage for that accident and pay out of pocket. Does that sound fair?

Why stop at helmets? there's a plethora of safety equipment available for skiing and riding...

In fact - the safest thing to do it to not ski...

It's a slippery slope... A Pandora's Box...

Should ski patrollers be required to wear helmets???

Should ski patrollers be required to wear helmets..

Yes

No

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