Best Dog Breed for New England Winters

campgottagopee said:

I really have to dissagree---tempermant is a HUGE factor in a show dog breed--any reputable breeder will tell you that from the get go wether show/field.

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We may have to agree to disagree. Temperament isn't ignored by show breeders, but it isn't priority. A good handler/trainer that works with the dog several hours a day should be able train a dog to show quality behavior, so physical traits are still far more important. My parents and several of their friends found this out through experience. I'm still of the opinion the field types make much better pets overall than the show types do.

Marc said:

We may have to agree to disagree. Temperament isn't ignored by show breeders, but it isn't priority. A good handler/trainer that works with the dog several hours a day should be able train a dog to show quality behavior, so physical traits are still far more important. My parents and several of their friends found this out through experience. I'm still of the opinion the field types make much better pets overall than the show types do.

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Uhm, not really trying to split hairs but this is from the AKC----breed standards for the Labrador Retriever. Please note the last standard.
Information on AKC Labrador Retriever Puppies

AKC MEET THE BREEDS®: Labrador Retriever
The gentle, intelligent and family-friendly Labrador Retriever from Canada continues to be the most popular breed in the United States, according to AKC® registration statistics. This versatile hunting breed comes in three colors – yellow, black and chocolate – and because of his aptitude to please his master they excel as guide dogs for the blind, as part of search-and-rescue teams or in narcotics detection with law enforcement.

A Look Back
Labrador Retrievers, originally from Newfoundland, were initially used in work alongside fisherman, helping to pull in nets and catch fish that escaped from fishing lines. After being crossed with Setters, Spaniels and other Retrievers, the Labrador Retriever honed its skills as a true retriever. From this point in the breed’s history, "Labs," as they are affectionately called, were bred primarily to perform as an efficient retriever of game, with a stable temperament suitable for a variety of activities beyond hunting.

Right Breed for You?
An ideal sporting and family dog, the Labrador Retriever thrives as part of an active family or as a trusted hunting companion. A double-coated breed which sheds seasonally, regular grooming keeps his coat at its water-resistant best. Because of his even temperament and trainability millions of Americans own a Labrador Retriever as a pet.

If you are considering purchasing a Labrador Retriever puppy, learn more here.

Sporting Group; AKC recognized in 1917
Average size: from 55 to 75 pounds
Outgoing and devoted companions; Water dog
© The American Kennel Club, Inc.






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Labrador Retriever Breed Standard
Sporting Group
General Appearance
The Labrador Retriever is a strongly built, medium-sized, short-coupled, dog possessing a sound, athletic, well-balanced conformation that enables it to function as a retrieving gun dog; the substance and soundness to hunt waterfowl or upland game for long hours under difficult conditions; the character and quality to win in the show ring; and the temperament to be a family companion. Physical features and mental characteristics should denote a dog bred to perform as an efficient Retriever of game with a stable temperament suitable for a variety of pursuits beyond the hunting environment.

The most distinguishing characteristics of the Labrador Retriever are its short, dense, weather resistant coat; an "otter" tail; a clean-cut head with broad back skull and moderate stop; powerful jaws; and its "kind," friendly eyes, expressing character, intelligence and good temperament.

Above all, a Labrador Retriever must be well balanced, enabling it to move in the show ring or work in the field with little or no effort. The typical Labrador possesses style and quality without over refinement, and substance without lumber or cloddiness. The Labrador is bred primarily as a working gun dog; structure and soundness are of great importance.

Size, Proportion and Substance
Size--The height at the withers for a dog is 22½ to 24½ inches; for a bitch is 21½ to 23½ inches. Any variance greater than ½ inch above or below these heights is a disqualification. Approximate weight of dogs and bitches in working condition: dogs 65 to 80 pounds; bitches 55 to 70 pounds.

The minimum height ranges set forth in the paragraph above shall not apply to dogs or bitches under twelve months of age.

Proportion--Short-coupled; length from the point of the shoulder to the point of the rump is equal to or slightly longer than the distance from the withers to the ground. Distance from the elbow to the ground should be equal to one half of the height at the withers. The brisket should extend to the elbows, but not perceptibly deeper. The body must be of sufficient length to permit a straight, free and efficient stride; but the dog should never appear low and long or tall and leggy in outline. Substance--Substance and bone proportionate to the overall dog. Light, "weedy" individuals are definitely incorrect; equally objectionable are cloddy lumbering specimens. Labrador Retrievers shall be shown in working condition well-muscled and without excess fat.

Head
Skull--The skull should be wide; well developed but without exaggeration. The skull and foreface should be on parallel planes and of approximately equal length. There should be a moderate stop--the brow slightly pronounced so that the skull is not absolutely in a straight line with the nose. The brow ridges aid in defining the stop. The head should be clean-cut and free from fleshy cheeks; the bony structure of the skull chiseled beneath the eye with no prominence in the cheek. The skull may show some median line; the occipital bone is not conspicuous in mature dogs. Lips should not be squared off or pendulous, but fall away in a curve toward the throat. A wedge-shape head, or a head long and narrow in muzzle and back skull is incorrect as are massive, cheeky heads. The jaws are powerful and free from snippiness-- the muzzle neither long and narrow nor short and stubby. Nose-- The nose should be wide and the nostrils well-developed. The nose should be black on black or yellow dogs, and brown on chocolates. Nose color fading to a lighter shade is not a fault. A thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in any pigment is a disqualification. Teeth--The teeth should be strong and regular with a scissors bite; the lower teeth just behind, but touching the inner side of the upper incisors. A level bite is acceptable, but not desirable. Undershot, overshot, or misaligned teeth are serious faults. Full dentition is preferred. Missing molars or pre-molars are serious faults. Ears--The ears should hang moderately close to the head, set rather far back, and somewhat low on the skull; slightly above eye level. Ears should not be large and heavy, but in proportion with the skull and reach to the inside of the eye when pulled forward. Eyes--Kind, friendly eyes imparting good temperament, intelligence and alertness are a hallmark of the breed. They should be of medium size, set well apart, and neither protruding nor deep set. Eye color should be brown in black and yellow Labradors, and brown or hazel in chocolates. Black, or yellow eyes give a harsh expression and are undesirable. Small eyes, set close together or round prominent eyes are not typical of the breed. Eye rims are black in black and yellow Labradors; and brown in chocolates. Eye rims without pigmentation is a disqualification.

Neck, Topline and Body
Neck--The neck should be of proper length to allow the dog to retrieve game easily. It should be muscular and free from throatiness. The neck should rise strongly from the shoulders with a moderate arch. A short, thick neck or a "ewe" neck is incorrect. Topline--The back is strong and the topline is level from the withers to the croup when standing or moving. However, the loin should show evidence of flexibility for athletic endeavor. Body--The Labrador should be short-coupled, with good spring of ribs tapering to a moderately wide chest. The Labrador should not be narrow chested; giving the appearance of hollowness between the front legs, nor should it have a wide spreading, bulldog-like front. Correct chest conformation will result in tapering between the front legs that allows unrestricted forelimb movement. Chest breadth that is either too wide or too narrow for efficient movement and stamina is incorrect. Slab-sided individuals are not typical of the breed; equally objectionable are rotund or barrel chested specimens. The underline is almost straight, with little or no tuck-up in mature animals. Loins should be short, wide and strong; extending to well developed, powerful hindquarters. When viewed from the side, the Labrador Retriever shows a well-developed, but not exaggerated forechest. Tail--The tail is a distinguishing feature of the breed. It should be very thick at the base, gradually tapering toward the tip, of medium length, and extending no longer than to the hock. The tail should be free from feathering and clothed thickly all around with the Labrador’s short, dense coat, thus having that peculiar rounded appearance that has been described as the "otter" tail. The tail should follow the topline in repose or when in motion. It may be carried gaily, but should not curl over the back. Extremely short tails or long thin tails are serious faults. The tail completes the balance of the Labrador by giving it a flowing line from the top of the head to the tip of the tail. Docking or otherwise altering the length or natural carriage of the tail is a disqualification.

Forequarters
Forequarters should be muscular, well coordinated and balanced with the hindquarters. Shoulders--The shoulders are well laid-back, long and sloping, forming an angle with the upper arm of approximately 90 degrees that permits the dog to move his forelegs in an easy manner with strong forward reach. Ideally, the length of the shoulder blade should equal the length of the upper arm. Straight shoulder blades, short upper arms or heavily muscled or loaded shoulders, all restricting free movement, are incorrect. Front Legs--When viewed from the front, the legs should be straight with good strong bone. Too much bone is as undesirable as too little bone, and short legged, heavy boned individuals are not typical of the breed. Viewed from the side, the elbows should be directly under the withers, and the front legs should be perpendicular to the ground and well under the body. The elbows should be close to the ribs without looseness. Tied-in elbows or being "out at the elbows" interfere with free movement and are serious faults. Pasterns should be strong and short and should slope slightly from the perpendicular line of the leg. Feet are strong and compact, with well-arched toes and well-developed pads. Dew claws may be removed. Splayed feet, hare feet, knuckling over, or feet turning in or out are serious faults.

Hindquarters
The Labrador’s hindquarters are broad, muscular and well-developed from the hip to the hock with well-turned stifles and strong short hocks. Viewed from the rear, the hind legs are straight and parallel. Viewed from the side, the angulation of the rear legs is in balance with the front. The hind legs are strongly boned, muscled with moderate angulation at the stifle, and powerful, clearly defined thighs. The stifle is strong and there is no slippage of the patellae while in motion or when standing. The hock joints are strong, well let down and do not slip or hyper-extend while in motion or when standing. Angulation of both stifle and hock joint is such as to achieve the optimal balance of drive and traction. When standing the rear toes are only slightly behind the point of the rump. Over angulation produces a sloping topline not typical of the breed. Feet are strong and compact, with well-arched toes and well-developed pads. Cow-hocks, spread hocks, sickle hocks and over-angulation are serious structural defects and are to be faulted.

Coat
The coat is a distinctive feature of the Labrador Retriever. It should be short, straight and very dense, giving a fairly hard feeling to the hand. The Labrador should have a soft, weather-resistant undercoat that provides protection from water, cold and all types of ground cover. A slight wave down the back is permissible. Woolly coats, soft silky coats, and sparse slick coats are not typical of the breed, and should be severely penalized.

Color
The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but not desirable. White hairs from aging or scarring are not to be misinterpreted as brindling. Black--Blacks are all black. A black with brindle markings or a black with tan markings is a disqualification. Yellow--Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog. Chocolate--Chocolates can vary in shade from light to dark chocolate. Chocolate with brindle or tan markings is a disqualification.

Movement
Movement of the Labrador Retriever should be free and effortless. When watching a dog move toward oneself, there should be no sign of elbows out. Rather, the elbows should be held neatly to the body with the legs not too close together. Moving straight forward without pacing or weaving, the legs should form straight lines, with all parts moving in the same plane. Upon viewing the dog from the rear, one should have the impression that the hind legs move as nearly as possible in a parallel line with the front legs. The hocks should do their full share of the work, flexing well, giving the appearance of power and strength. When viewed from the side, the shoulders should move freely and effortlessly, and the foreleg should reach forward close to the ground with extension. A short, choppy movement or high knee action indicates a straight shoulder; paddling indicates long, weak pasterns; and a short, stilted rear gait indicates a straight rear assembly; all are serious faults. Movement faults interfering with performance including weaving; side-winding; crossing over; high knee action; paddling; and short, choppy movement, should be severely penalized.

Temperament
True Labrador Retriever temperament is as much a hallmark of the breed as the "otter" tail. The ideal disposition is one of a kindly, outgoing, tractable nature; eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal. The Labrador has much that appeals to people; his gentle ways, intelligence and adaptability make him an ideal dog. Aggressiveness towards humans or other animals, or any evidence of shyness in an adult should be severely penalized.

Disqualifications

Any deviation from the height prescribed in the Standard.
A thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in any pigment.
Eye rims without pigment.
Docking or otherwise altering the length or natural carriage of the tail.
Any other color or a combination of colors other than black, yellow or chocolate as described in the Standard.
Approved February 12, 1994
Effective March 31, 1994

Labrador Retriever Links
Colors and Markings | Did You Know? | History | Photos

Isn't that pretty much the temperment standard for most dogs? I mean, aside for Crazy Borneo Man Eaters or something.

And don't get me started on AKC breed standards and their effect on dog breeding. "Perfect" AKC German Shepherds are almost cruelty to animals.

ctenidae said:

Isn't that pretty much the temperment standard for most dogs? I mean, aside for Crazy Borneo Man Eaters or something.

And don't get me started on AKC breed standards and their effect on dog breeding. "Perfect" AKC German Shepherds are almost cruelty to animals.

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Don't know---I only know (very little) about Labs---Those standards are what a Labrador would be "graded" on during a show.

I get flack from breeder types all the time when I assert that the distinction between "field type" and "bench type" is nothing more than personal preference. The same applies to the personal preference one may have for black vs. yellow vs. chocolate. Let me first state that I have never hunted anything more than a vacant parking spot. Conversations I've had over the years with Lab owners and breeders, as well as my own experience as a Lab owner for the last 23 years lead me to believe that the dog becomes what it's trained and encouraged to become. Actually, that statement applies to any dog of any breed or mixture thereof.

The selection made over hundreds of years has lead to Labs having a higher percentage body fat than most other breeds of dogs. With that knowledge, it's easy to understand why Labs will appear obese readily when caloric intake is in excess of caloric expenditure. The big jump in caloric intake that accompanies the inappropriate feeding of "people food" amplifies the problem.

Labs are great dogs. I can't see myself ever not having one for a pet. That's a personal preference that works for my lifestyle and family situation. The original poster for this thread should consider his/her living and family situation in narrowing down the choices for the dog he/she may get. Do yourself and whatever dog you decide to get a favor and do a lot more research on various breeds before you make your decision.
The idea of rescue from a shelter is a great one, but be sure you're aware of some of the hazards one could encounter with a dog that's been surrendered. And....be sure to get the dog spayed/neutered!!!

Dr Skimeister said:

I get flack from breeder types all the time when I assert that the distinction between "field type" and "bench type" is nothing more than personal preference. The same applies to the personal preference one may have for black vs. yellow vs. chocolate. Let me first state that I have never hunted anything more than a vacant parking spot. Conversations I've had over the years with Lab owners and breeders, as well as my own experience as a Lab owner for the last 23 years lead me to believe that the dog becomes what it's trained and encouraged to become. Actually, that statement applies to any dog of any breed or mixture thereof.

The selection made over hundreds of years has lead to Labs having a higher percentage body fat than most other breeds of dogs. With that knowledge, it's easy to understand why Labs will appear obese readily when caloric intake is in excess of caloric expenditure. The big jump in caloric intake that accompanies the inappropriate feeding of "people food" amplifies the problem.

Labs are great dogs. I can't see myself ever not having one for a pet. That's a personal preference that works for my lifestyle and family situation. The original poster for this thread should consider his/her living and family situation in narrowing down the choices for the dog he/she may get. Do yourself and whatever dog you decide to get a favor and do a lot more research on various breeds before you make your decision.The idea of rescue from a shelter is a great one, but be sure you're aware of some of the hazards one could encounter with a dog that's been surrendered. And....be sure to get the dog spayed/neutered!!!

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That is VERY good advise Doc---if more people did that then maybe we wouoldn't have all these pets up for adoption. My cousins breed Labs so I knew what I was in for.

campgottagopee said:

Uhm, not really trying to split hairs but this is from the AKC----breed standards for the Labrador Retriever. Please note the last standard.
Information on AKC Labrador Retriever Puppies
s

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It's cool. I'm enjoying have a back and forth with you. I don't get to do that often without it degenerating into name calling (I always seem to be the one getting called the name too...)

What I say to the AKC guidelines, which I am familiar with, is that breeders going for show quality know there's only so much a judge can discern about the disposition of a particular animal in a show setting. So it's less of a concern for a dog bred solely to win in shows. My parents first lab came from a very well known breeder and had very good lineage, with picture and AKC documents and ribbons from the shows the parents won, etc etc.

The dog, for a lab, could be miserable. Now often a lab on its worse day is better than a lot of breeds on their best days, but regardless... it had an insatiable chewing habit. Eventually had to be relegated to the garage where it ate the rubber door molding off my mom's Oldsmobile.... and when I say ate, I mean consumed it in its entirety in one night.

She was nippy too. Nothing malicious, but lacked judgment. And my parents probably share some blame, as they had two young children plus a puppy. The puppy probably didn't get the training it should have.

My parents' friends went through a similar breeder with similar results.

My parents second lab came from another well know, reputable breeder. This one was well known in the area for breeding hunting dogs. Came highly recommended by a state trooper we know who is an avid hunter and lab owner. All his dogs had none of the typical lab issues (skin problems, bad hips, etc).

They bought a yellow puppy from this breeder. The bitch's tail came to below its hocks when relaxed... it curled like a candy cane when alert. She has a slender head, a slender body... dark markings around the ears, light on the shoulders. She has a "dudley" nose and eyes. All undesirable show characteristics but turned out to be the best pet they'd ever owned. Anecdotal, yes, but telling at the same time, I think.

And don't take that like I'm trying to say all show dogs will have a worse demeanor, all I'm saying is there is more variation for the reasons I've listed.

Does anyone here like smaller dogs? Seems like they aren't too popular with many AZers...

FWIW, my neighborhood is full of Labs and Golden Retrievers...my guess is that they are perceived as being easier to take care of.

Marc said:

It's cool. I'm enjoying have a back and forth with you. I don't get to do that often without it degenerating into name calling (I always seem to be the one getting called the name too...)

What I say to the AKC guidelines, which I am familiar with, is that breeders going for show quality know there's only so much a judge can discern about the disposition of a particular animal in a show setting. So it's less of a concern for a dog bred solely to win in shows. My parents first lab came from a very well known breeder and had very good lineage, with picture and AKC documents and ribbons from the shows the parents won, etc etc.

The dog, for a lab, could be miserable. Now often a lab on its worse day is better than a lot of breeds on their best days, but regardless... it had an insatiable chewing habit. Eventually had to be relegated to the garage where it ate the rubber door molding off my mom's Oldsmobile.... and when I say ate, I mean consumed it in its entirety in one night.

She was nippy too. Nothing malicious, but lacked judgment. And my parents probably share some blame, as they had two young children plus a puppy. The puppy probably didn't get the training it should have.

My parents' friends went through a similar breeder with similar results.

My parents second lab came from another well know, reputable breeder. This one was well known in the area for breeding hunting dogs. Came highly recommended by a state trooper we know who is an avid hunter and lab owner. All his dogs had none of the typical lab issues (skin problems, bad hips, etc).

They bought a yellow puppy from this breeder. The bitch's tail came to below its hocks when relaxed... it curled like a candy cane when alert. She has a slender head, a slender body... dark markings around the ears, light on the shoulders. She has a "dudley" nose and eyes. All undesirable show characteristics but turned out to be the best pet they'd ever owned. Anecdotal, yes, but telling at the same time, I think.

And don't take that like I'm trying to say all show dogs will have a worse demeanor, all I'm saying is there is more variation for the reasons I've listed.

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No name calling here----Honestly I think you could find any lab have those same issues you described in your first lab, afterall they are dogs--right??? It's like the good Doc said, "It's a personal choice", and that's why we have 2. My cousins breed bench/english dogs that are incredible hunters. That's the look I like so that's why we have Bode---the dude's a bull in a china shop until he's in the field. Then there's Pica (short for Picaboo Street), she's my wifes---field/american, that's the look she likes, also a good hunter. Don't EVER tell my wife this, but truth be told Pica is a better hunter than Bode. Oh, and she's a Dudley too----in part that's why we got her. My wife fell in love w/ her in about 2 seconds, and obviously the $$$$ was better due to the Dudley....still don't get that other than it can't be shown, whatever, she hunts her little ass off. Guess it all boils down to whatever trips your trigger.

hammer said:

Does anyone here like smaller dogs?

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NO :razz:

campgottagopee said:

NO :razz:

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Serial. We can agree on that. :dunce:

Marc said:

Serial. We can agree on that. :dunce:

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Now you're talkin---plus we know tractors are cool!!!!!

One of the realtors I know in Boston rates neighborhoods by the dogs that are there.
The ranking goes from pit bulls (not the nicest places to buy a home) to small fluffy dogs (up and coming, revitalizing) to golden retrievers (couples, 2.4 kids,etc)

ctenidae said:

One of the realtors I know in Boston rates neighborhoods by the dogs that are there.
The ranking goes from pit bulls (not the nicest places to buy a home) to small fluffy dogs (up and coming, revitalizing) to golden retrievers (couples, 2.4 kids,etc)

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That's crap---Pits get a bad rap and fluffy dogs are for people who don't ski :argue:

campgottagopee said:

That's crap---Pits get a bad rap and fluffy dogs are for people who don't ski :argue:

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I think it relates more to the socioeconomic status of the neighborhood, then the overall sexual orientation, then the socioeconomic status and overall sexual orientation.

But yes, pits get a bad rap (owner's fault), and fluffy dog owners don't ski.

Marc said:

It's cool. I'm enjoying have a back and forth with you. I don't get to do that often without it degenerating into name calling (I always seem to be the one getting called the name too...)

What I say to the AKC guidelines, which I am familiar with, is that breeders going for show quality know there's only so much a judge can discern about the disposition of a particular animal in a show setting. So it's less of a concern for a dog bred solely to win in shows. My parents first lab came from a very well known breeder and had very good lineage, with picture and AKC documents and ribbons from the shows the parents won, etc etc.

The dog, for a lab, could be miserable. Now often a lab on its worse day is better than a lot of breeds on their best days, but regardless... it had an insatiable chewing habit. Eventually had to be relegated to the garage where it ate the rubber door molding off my mom's Oldsmobile.... and when I say ate, I mean consumed it in its entirety in one night.

She was nippy too. Nothing malicious, but lacked judgment. And my parents probably share some blame, as they had two young children plus a puppy. The puppy probably didn't get the training it should have.

My parents' friends went through a similar breeder with similar results.

My parents second lab came from another well know, reputable breeder. This one was well known in the area for breeding hunting dogs. Came highly recommended by a state trooper we know who is an avid hunter and lab owner. All his dogs had none of the typical lab issues (skin problems, bad hips, etc).

They bought a yellow puppy from this breeder. The bitch's tail came to below its hocks when relaxed... it curled like a candy cane when alert. She has a slender head, a slender body... dark markings around the ears, light on the shoulders. She has a "dudley" nose and eyes. All undesirable show characteristics but turned out to be the best pet they'd ever owned. Anecdotal, yes, but telling at the same time, I think.

And don't take that like I'm trying to say all show dogs will have a worse demeanor, all I'm saying is there is more variation for the reasons I've listed.

Click to expand...

yeah OK

Dr Skimeister said:

I get flack from breeder types all the time when I assert that the distinction between "field type" and "bench type" is nothing more than personal preference. The same applies to the personal preference one may have for black vs. yellow vs. chocolate. Let me first state that I have never hunted anything more than a vacant parking spot. Conversations I've had over the years with Lab owners and breeders, as well as my own experience as a Lab owner for the last 23 years lead me to believe that the dog becomes what it's trained and encouraged to become. Actually, that statement applies to any dog of any breed or mixture thereof.

The selection made over hundreds of years has lead to Labs having a higher percentage body fat than most other breeds of dogs. With that knowledge, it's easy to understand why Labs will appear obese readily when caloric intake is in excess of caloric expenditure. The big jump in caloric intake that accompanies the inappropriate feeding of "people food" amplifies the problem.

Labs are great dogs. I can't see myself ever not having one for a pet. That's a personal preference that works for my lifestyle and family situation. The original poster for this thread should consider his/her living and family situation in narrowing down the choices for the dog he/she may get. Do yourself and whatever dog you decide to get a favor and do a lot more research on various breeds before you make your decision.
The idea of rescue from a shelter is a great one, but be sure you're aware of some of the hazards one could encounter with a dog that's been surrendered. And....be sure to get the dog spayed/neutered!!!

Click to expand...

But doc some dogs are just retarded and you have to recognize it and deal with it. You can train and encourage your dog as good as anyone, If there is something wrong uptstairs you have to do something different

hammer said:

Does anyone here like smaller dogs? Seems like they aren't too popular with many AZers...

FWIW, my neighborhood is full of Labs and Golden Retrievers...my guess is that they are perceived as being easier to take care of.

Click to expand...

In addition to my 6+ year old chocolate Lab, I have an 18+ year old Toy Fox Terrier.

this is my girl.

and a couple more obligatory puppy shots.