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Helmet Law?
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
J
jlangdale
Guest
Helmet law should be a mandate. I was at Sugarbush last season doing photography, swung by the little kiddie terrain park and some kid had just went flying off a jump. New skier, no helmet and went uncon. His mother and father, sister were there. Mother freaking out. She's about to do CPR because he isn't breathing, the mother turned out to be a Doctor herself.
I called in to the emergency med guys over the 911 channel on handheld. Finally kids wakes up and is screaming his head off in fear.
I have a 7 year old daughter and she's skied the last two seasons always with a helmet. Afterward I see the parents in the lodge and they see my daughter with the helmet on. They said there would be no doubt they would be making their kids were helmets.
I don't always wear a helmet, although I should. I don't go crazy down the mountain. Different story with kids, especially young boys in terrain parks.
I called in to the emergency med guys over the 911 channel on handheld. Finally kids wakes up and is screaming his head off in fear.
I have a 7 year old daughter and she's skied the last two seasons always with a helmet. Afterward I see the parents in the lodge and they see my daughter with the helmet on. They said there would be no doubt they would be making their kids were helmets.
I don't always wear a helmet, although I should. I don't go crazy down the mountain. Different story with kids, especially young boys in terrain parks.
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Hi Jon - I tend to agree with you. But with any other topic like this, there will be those that feel our civil liberties are being violated. Many will say to leave it up to the parents, but we all know how that goes. You need a license to drive a car, but any jackass can be a parent.
I think many of the arguments in the article against it are pretty weak. "Fairbank said the helmet mandate would see groups heading to adjacent New York, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine to avoid the $100 to $200 cost of helmets."? Come on, look at the prices of lift tickets and equipment these days. Skiing is a privledge not known to many folks without money. Consider the cost of travel, lodging, dining, and lift tickets for a family of four, and the cost of helmets which will last for many seasons is certainly negligible. Perhaps the only argument in the ariticle that holds any water is the hockey helmet analogy. I suppose there is a possibility that a helmet will provide a false sense of security and young skiers and riders will try trails and tricks they are not ready for.
If you had asked me this question a year ago before my daughter was born, you may have gotten a different answer. Funny how parenthood changes your perspective on some thing. Regardless, when my daughter is ready to attempt skiing, she will do so with a helmet. I don't think helmets should be required by adults. If an adult decides to ski without a helmet (I don't), it's their prerogative.
I think many of the arguments in the article against it are pretty weak. "Fairbank said the helmet mandate would see groups heading to adjacent New York, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine to avoid the $100 to $200 cost of helmets."? Come on, look at the prices of lift tickets and equipment these days. Skiing is a privledge not known to many folks without money. Consider the cost of travel, lodging, dining, and lift tickets for a family of four, and the cost of helmets which will last for many seasons is certainly negligible. Perhaps the only argument in the ariticle that holds any water is the hockey helmet analogy. I suppose there is a possibility that a helmet will provide a false sense of security and young skiers and riders will try trails and tricks they are not ready for.
If you had asked me this question a year ago before my daughter was born, you may have gotten a different answer. Funny how parenthood changes your perspective on some thing. Regardless, when my daughter is ready to attempt skiing, she will do so with a helmet. I don't think helmets should be required by adults. If an adult decides to ski without a helmet (I don't), it's their prerogative.
J
jlangdale
Guest
Civil liberties is a good point. Same deal with seat belts really. I don't see how child ski helment would be enforced. Ski cops now? Ski helment companies probably love the idea and I'm sure politicians do as well. Seems like libertarian types usually have a harder go against these kind of things. The argument that people will ski elsewhere is very weak. This issue also seems very similar to life jackets on boats.
I think big bold SKI HELMETS MUST BE WORN BY CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 12 would simply be a good thing to scare parents or at least get them thinking if not for anything else. I think there are some parents that just don't want to spend the money or just don't think about it and the kid suffers. Nothing about civil liberties. Sure you want to have a choice in the matter, but when it comes down to it the parents are not opting now to use it because they want to have a free choice. And enforcement of such thing is pretty stupid. What, fine them after they are hurt and in the hospital? Like that will do any good. Parents are likely to have them wear a helmet anyway. What is the motivational factor here, you're child is hurt and in hospital or you have to pay a fine. So prevention would only work to scare them or notify them with more signs.
But then what happens when your kid forgets their helmet or something and you know you're kid isn't a crazy hill bomber. As with most things, these issues go both ways. Going to ticket a parent for a child skiing without a helmet and not getting hurt?
Argument could be that they might get hurt by someone else. But then you're making someone pay for protection against someone that can't control their skiing/boarding when you should be enforcing rules of the road on the reckless skier/boarder.
Hell... with seat belts, I was in TN with my daughter visiting Grandma. We went fishing in my truck with a few other people. Not alot of room, so my daughter was sitting on Grandma's lap for a 5 minute trip to the boat launch. I got pulled over for child restraint with even though my home state doesn't have such a law. Not to mention my daughter always wears her seatbelt. End up being legal for two adults sit in the back of the truck, oh yea much more safe.
I end up getting a $30 ticket (I thought was a warning). Then a few months later I get my license suspended for an unpaid $30 ticket, I was not informed of this. I get pulled over for a broken headlight in my truck and find my license is suspended. I get arrested and pay $30 bail, $100 for my truck our of storage and for towing, then $30 to TN for the stupid ticket that caused it all, then $100 to reinstate my license, then at court a few months later I get fined $250 dollars. All over a $30 ticket that was unnecessary.
So the enforcement of this type of thing doesn't seem to be all that effective, but simply having it there as a strong reason to think about prevention is a good idea. Of course, I know the argument against that would be nobody would care without the threat of enforcement. Doesn't make sense either way. Why make people care more about the threat of enforcement to force them into something. It would be better to just get them to truely care about the reason for doing something or at least think about it.
Then if there are those parents that truely disregard their child's safety and neglect them, don't watch them and let them run around with no helments, maybe you have good cause and laws on the books to jump in and do something because they're truely bad parents.[/b]
I think big bold SKI HELMETS MUST BE WORN BY CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 12 would simply be a good thing to scare parents or at least get them thinking if not for anything else. I think there are some parents that just don't want to spend the money or just don't think about it and the kid suffers. Nothing about civil liberties. Sure you want to have a choice in the matter, but when it comes down to it the parents are not opting now to use it because they want to have a free choice. And enforcement of such thing is pretty stupid. What, fine them after they are hurt and in the hospital? Like that will do any good. Parents are likely to have them wear a helmet anyway. What is the motivational factor here, you're child is hurt and in hospital or you have to pay a fine. So prevention would only work to scare them or notify them with more signs.
But then what happens when your kid forgets their helmet or something and you know you're kid isn't a crazy hill bomber. As with most things, these issues go both ways. Going to ticket a parent for a child skiing without a helmet and not getting hurt?
Argument could be that they might get hurt by someone else. But then you're making someone pay for protection against someone that can't control their skiing/boarding when you should be enforcing rules of the road on the reckless skier/boarder.
Hell... with seat belts, I was in TN with my daughter visiting Grandma. We went fishing in my truck with a few other people. Not alot of room, so my daughter was sitting on Grandma's lap for a 5 minute trip to the boat launch. I got pulled over for child restraint with even though my home state doesn't have such a law. Not to mention my daughter always wears her seatbelt. End up being legal for two adults sit in the back of the truck, oh yea much more safe.
I end up getting a $30 ticket (I thought was a warning). Then a few months later I get my license suspended for an unpaid $30 ticket, I was not informed of this. I get pulled over for a broken headlight in my truck and find my license is suspended. I get arrested and pay $30 bail, $100 for my truck our of storage and for towing, then $30 to TN for the stupid ticket that caused it all, then $100 to reinstate my license, then at court a few months later I get fined $250 dollars. All over a $30 ticket that was unnecessary.
So the enforcement of this type of thing doesn't seem to be all that effective, but simply having it there as a strong reason to think about prevention is a good idea. Of course, I know the argument against that would be nobody would care without the threat of enforcement. Doesn't make sense either way. Why make people care more about the threat of enforcement to force them into something. It would be better to just get them to truely care about the reason for doing something or at least think about it.
Then if there are those parents that truely disregard their child's safety and neglect them, don't watch them and let them run around with no helments, maybe you have good cause and laws on the books to jump in and do something because they're truely bad parents.[/b]
riverc0il
New member
i take the liberty side on this. don't tell me what to do please, the government that governs least governs best. i honestly don't think helmets would have much of a statistical dent in head trauma for kids... nor adults that ski on piste. would some heads be saved. sure. so would a motor cycle helmet in new hampshire i bet! if people enjoy not wearing a helmet for what ever reason, fine. i think there's a lot of scare mongering going on right now and helmet companies are laughing all the way to the bank.
not saying helmets don't occasionally save a life. but should we all not drive to reduce the death rate?
any ways. if ski area insurance would decrease if this rule was implemented, i'd be all for it. but i bet insurance rates would not go down, because the companies would not see it as decreasing risk. any one have any stats on that?
i'm flexible on the under 12 thing, although i prefer parents being parents. there's too much of this "the state" parenting kids and taking away parent responsibilities. parents aren't responsible partly because they rely on the state to be so for them. just don't be touching an over 12 helmet law.
for the record, as soon as i can scrape together the cash, i'm getting a helmet. i don't ski the woods without one, which has been limiting me lately.
not saying helmets don't occasionally save a life. but should we all not drive to reduce the death rate?
any ways. if ski area insurance would decrease if this rule was implemented, i'd be all for it. but i bet insurance rates would not go down, because the companies would not see it as decreasing risk. any one have any stats on that?
i'm flexible on the under 12 thing, although i prefer parents being parents. there's too much of this "the state" parenting kids and taking away parent responsibilities. parents aren't responsible partly because they rely on the state to be so for them. just don't be touching an over 12 helmet law.
for the record, as soon as i can scrape together the cash, i'm getting a helmet. i don't ski the woods without one, which has been limiting me lately.
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You make an interesting point here, Steve. Perhaps it's true that all these safeguards imposed by govenrment and society make some parents complacent about being parents.riverc0il said:
J
jlangdale
Guest
Greg said:
You think it makes them feel complacent? As in satisified that they will be better parents with the state watching over them? I would think it be somewhat the opposite.
People thinking about being a parent should be worried not only about the process of raising a child and the part of your life that gets dedicated to this goal, but also should be worry if they mess up... the state is going to do xyz or fine them. It would be a more interesting factor if true that the number of parent were decreasing due to regulation and fear of government involvement.
Maybe a little scare and wake up call is a good thing for some.
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Here's an example of what I mean. My wife is in major baby-proofing mode around the house now that our daughter is learning how to crawl; you know installing electical jack covers, cabinet latches, etc. My father-in-law sometimes scoffs at the idea. He's like, "we never had any of that when you kids were growing up". Things like this, as with laws that are designed to protect kids, perhaps make parenting more 'convenient' for some. The fact is though your kids should still be taught not to stick their finger in an electrical socket. Likewise, your kid should be taught not to race like a madman through the glades. Kind of a weak analogy, I know.jlangdale said:
All that aside, irresponsible parents will be irresponsible parents anyway...
J
jlangdale
Guest
Everything is about balance. There maybe some benefits to a change in parenting, they are probably some disadvantages. There are also more than likely some advantages and disadvantages to the old 'walking fifty miles in the snow to school' days we are losing. Hard to tell if things are generally better or worse.
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Agreed. You need balance in just about every aspect of life. I firmly believe that. I also feel that 'modern parenting' can be very successful and fulfilling provided an 'old school' foundation is present. Much of it comes down to basic common sense, which unfortunately some parents lack. I wonder if common sense was more prevalent in the "old days". Perhaps it's not something that's easy to quantify.jlangdale said:
Boy, is this topic evolving...
J
jlangdale
Guest
I have a 7 year old daughter.
I think parenting is analogous to a child growing up. I'm not sure how much you can prepare you child for 'learning' while in the womb or whatever. I'm also not sure how much you can prepare a person for being a parent. They are more or less born into being a parent. You're not a parent until that child is there. It's just something that is learned. Some people are better in school and learning than others, hence good and bad parents.
I often wonder if parents don't learn as much as their children learn going through the process.
I think parenting is analogous to a child growing up. I'm not sure how much you can prepare you child for 'learning' while in the womb or whatever. I'm also not sure how much you can prepare a person for being a parent. They are more or less born into being a parent. You're not a parent until that child is there. It's just something that is learned. Some people are better in school and learning than others, hence good and bad parents.
I often wonder if parents don't learn as much as their children learn going through the process.
O
oldhippie
Guest
>>> The helmet bill was filed by state Sen. Charles Shannon, D-Winchester, on behalf of the parents of an 11-year-old Medford girl who suffered brain injuries after hitting her head on the frozen granular surface at Nashoba Valley Ski Area four years ago. <<<
So, essentially what we have here is a set of parents who are in such denial of the fact that it was THEIR responsibility to make sure THEIR kid was properly equipped, that they have talked Charlie Shannon into sponsoring one of those no-lose bills.
Except for the fact that WE ALL LOSE our freedom to choose.
I think cigarettes and booze should be outlawed. Completely. Ice cream and mayonaise too. Cigs and booze kill thousands weekly. Ice cream and mayonaise are major contributors to obesity and heart disease. Outlaw them. then come talk to me about ski helmets.
I think I am going to buy a ski helmet specifically so I can put a Helmet Laws **ck sticker on it.
:angry:
So, essentially what we have here is a set of parents who are in such denial of the fact that it was THEIR responsibility to make sure THEIR kid was properly equipped, that they have talked Charlie Shannon into sponsoring one of those no-lose bills.
Except for the fact that WE ALL LOSE our freedom to choose.
I think cigarettes and booze should be outlawed. Completely. Ice cream and mayonaise too. Cigs and booze kill thousands weekly. Ice cream and mayonaise are major contributors to obesity and heart disease. Outlaw them. then come talk to me about ski helmets.
I think I am going to buy a ski helmet specifically so I can put a Helmet Laws **ck sticker on it.
:angry:
J
jlangdale
Guest
I just got the new helmet with the headphones built in. Works great. But I guess it will only be legal until some dumbarse blasts their headphones too high and goes bombing down a hill to kill someone before they make it illegal.
O
oldhippie
Guest
Helmet with headphones
Jon, what kind is that? I might be interested in one of those!
:wink:
Jon, what kind is that? I might be interested in one of those!
:wink:
J
jlangdale
Guest
Re: Helmet with headphones
I got the lighter version. Their lightest helmet. A bit cheaper too.
Giro Sport Design: Nine.9™ Audio
http://cobrand.altrec.com/mpgate/Alpin4/shop/detail/16313/4
Giro Fuse Audio Helmet
http://cobrand.altrec.com/mpgate/Alpin4/shop/detail/16311/4
oldhippie said:
I got the lighter version. Their lightest helmet. A bit cheaper too.
Giro Sport Design: Nine.9™ Audio
http://cobrand.altrec.com/mpgate/Alpin4/shop/detail/16313/4
Giro Fuse Audio Helmet
http://cobrand.altrec.com/mpgate/Alpin4/shop/detail/16311/4
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Re: Helmet with headphones
It's a flaw in Altrec's affiliate linking architecture. You see, a visitor needs to originate from AlpineZone to get the cookie. The page is then refreshed and the link becomes generic when accessed outside the original session (i.e. oldhippie clicking on your original link). I'm sure I lose some commission because of it... :-?
Thanks for the referrals though!
Jon - I edited your links. The "mpgate/Alpin4" is needed in order for the AlpineZone Gear Store to receive credit.jlangdale said:
It's a flaw in Altrec's affiliate linking architecture. You see, a visitor needs to originate from AlpineZone to get the cookie. The page is then refreshed and the link becomes generic when accessed outside the original session (i.e. oldhippie clicking on your original link). I'm sure I lose some commission because of it... :-?
Thanks for the referrals though!
J
jlangdale
Guest
Re: Helmet with headphones
No worries, I had originaly put links from a google search then figured I'd see if your store had them too and sure enough they did.
Greg said:]Jon - I edited your links. The "mpgate/Alpin4" is needed in order for the AlpineZone Gear Store to receive credit.
Thanks for the referrals though!
No worries, I had originaly put links from a google search then figured I'd see if your store had them too and sure enough they did.
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Re: Helmet with headphones
What a guy...jlangdale said:
riverc0il
New member
i just bought a Giro Nine myself this month (non-audio variety though) and it's really comfortable! i don't know why any one would say helmets are warmer than a hat though, it doesn't have quite the same coverage a snug and flexible hat does.
any ways, if you scroll up to my early post on this subject... i was previously without helmet and very much against any such helmet law. as the proud owner of a new helmet, i'm still very much against any proposed law.
any ways, if you scroll up to my early post on this subject... i was previously without helmet and very much against any such helmet law. as the proud owner of a new helmet, i'm still very much against any proposed law.
teachski
New member
I have a helmet, though I do not wear it all of the time....I may now after a NASTY fall at Stowe on the 13th. I had it on then. I still got a concussion, but how much worse would it have been for me if I did not have it on?
Because PARENTS do not do what they should and ARE irrisponsible (many, not all), I feel there needs to be a helmet law for kids under a certain age. (Kind of like many states with the seatbelt laws that are mandatory for kids under a certain age). I would also highly recommend the use of helmets for sledding. A tree lined sledding path is as dangerous if not more dangerous than a ski and snowboard slope.
Helmets do not completely eliminate the chance of severe or fatal injuries, but they can reduce the severety of injury in most instances.
Because PARENTS do not do what they should and ARE irrisponsible (many, not all), I feel there needs to be a helmet law for kids under a certain age. (Kind of like many states with the seatbelt laws that are mandatory for kids under a certain age). I would also highly recommend the use of helmets for sledding. A tree lined sledding path is as dangerous if not more dangerous than a ski and snowboard slope.
Helmets do not completely eliminate the chance of severe or fatal injuries, but they can reduce the severety of injury in most instances.
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