Honda CRV v. Toyota Rav4 v. Subaru Forester

highpeaksdrifter · Apr 20, 2009

Thanks for all the good info so far. You guys have given me some things to think about.

wa-loaf said:
I've got an Outback with 5 speed. Had in the shop for brakes and they gave me a loaner. Basically the same car but with auto. It felt lifeless and underpowered. Autos suck.

Unfortunately I have to go with an auto transmission. My wife will be driving this SUV on occasion and her and a standard would not work well.

dmc · Apr 20, 2009

Tried them all... Had Foresters for my last 2 cars...
First one - engine went bad(head) at 200,000+
Second on - Hit a moose at 100,000 - was in great shape..

Don't like the new Foresters - too big now...

Ended up with a VW Tiguan... Liked it best out of the class...

campgottagopee · Apr 20, 2009

HPD, all 3 of the cars you’re looking at are awesome, good for you. I’ll give you my 2 cent……..

First choice would be Subie (surprise) for 3 major reasons----far superior AWD system, more ground clearance and a more comprehensive warranty. Subie actually covers brakes, rotors, wipers light bulbs etc for 3yrs/36k where many others only cover for 12/12.

Good luck!!!

danny p · Apr 20, 2009

sorry to slightly hijack:

camp,
did you see the 2010 outbacks have an electronic (push-button, i think?) e-brake? what's up with that? Are the forrester's going to have that too? Seems weird to me...I like the idea of having a handle to yank up in emergencies....

campgottagopee · Apr 20, 2009

danny p said:
sorry to slightly hijack:

camp,
did you see the 2010 outbacks have an electronic (push-button, i think?) e-brake? what's up with that? Are the forrester's going to have that too? Seems weird to me...I like the idea of having a handle to yank up in emergencies....

I did read that but haven't seen the car yet in person---have a meeting next month so will have more info for you then.

danny p · Apr 20, 2009

campgottagopee said:
I did read that but haven't seen the car yet in person---have a meeting next month so will have more info for you then.

thanks...deciding between an 09 or 10 so any intel will be much appreciated...

gmcunni · Apr 20, 2009

we have an 09 CRV. replaced a 06 pilot.

handles fine in 6-8 or less inches of snow, haven't driven it in more than that.
with skis + gear inside it is a tight fit for 4 people on a day trip. looking to get a roof rack for next year.
crv does not have a lot of power but the gas mileage is pretty good (25ish on hw).
less than thrilled with the reduced set of comfort/functional features compared to the pilot but wanted better gas mileage so living with it.

Glenn · Apr 20, 2009

dmc said:
Ended up with a VW Tiguan... Liked it best out of the class...

How do you like it overall? I haven't talked to anyone who's owned one yet.

dmc · Apr 20, 2009

Glenn said:
How do you like it overall? I haven't talked to anyone who's owned one yet.

Love it... Handles great - zippy - very comfy.. gets 26mph.. Fits my drums and snowboards... Trouble free at 18,000 and almost a year...

Just wish it was the TDI/Manual that I've seen in Europe...

Glenn · Apr 20, 2009

Cool, sounds like a nice rig. I've been seeing more of them on the road lately.

I hear ya. VW (and most of the German's) have a bunch of great diesel engines.

highpeaksdrifter · Apr 20, 2009

deadheadskier said:
I'll beat the Hyundai drum and tell you to at least give a Tuscon a test drive. I personally feel that in the past few years Hyundai has matched Toyota and Honda for reliability, but come at a cheaper price tag with better warranty.

I test drove Camry, Accord and Sonata. Sonata had all the same features, drove better and cost several thousand less for the same trim and had the better warranty. 2.5 years and 65K miles in, zero complaints on the car. I'm sure I'd feel the same way for one of their small SUV's.

deadheadskier said:
Hyundai

:lol:

This car is basically the same as the Kia Sportage, yes?

I never considered Kia before, but there are some nice rebates on them right now. I could get a Sportage with 4WD and a V6 for just over $16,000. Seems pretty good. What do you guys think?

campgottagopee · Apr 20, 2009

highpeaksdrifter said:
This car is basically the same as the Kia Sportage, yes?

I never considered Kia before, but there are some nice rebates on them right now. I could get a Sportage with 4WD and a V6 for just over $16,000. Seems pretty good. What do you guys think?

Unlike Deadhead I'm NOT convinced Hyundai/Kia have arrived yet----they don't take the milage as good as your other choices, and they certainly lack in the re-sale value. Watever you save up front you'll lose when it's time to get rid of it.

JMO, but I'd stick to your first 3 choices.

Geoff · Apr 20, 2009

dmc said:
Love it... Handles great - zippy - very comfy.. gets 26mph.. Fits my drums and snowboards... Trouble free at 18,000 and almost a year...

Just wish it was the TDI/Manual that I've seen in Europe...

I really like the interior on Volkswagens. It blows away the Japanese alternatives. Which option level do you have?

deadheadskier · Apr 20, 2009

campgottagopee said:
Unlike Deadhead I'm NOT convinced Hyundai/Kia have arrived yet----they don't take the milage as good as your other choices, and they certainly lack in the re-sale value. Watever you save up front you'll lose when it's time to get rid of it.

JMO, but I'd stick to your first 3 choices.

re-sale value is a problem for now, so it depends if you are someone who keeps their cars for a long time. I believe those values are based on the company's bad reputation for quality up until recently.

Only first hand experience here and as mentioned, 65K miles in and zero issues on the current car. Test drove a Camry, Accord and Ford Fusion and I liked the Sonata better than the other cars.

As mentioned in another thread, my father recently traded in his Infinity M35X for a Genesis. The Genesis out performs the Infinity in every way except a tad less gas mileage. Car cost him 12K less than the Infinity.

My future inlaws have 5/6 year old Sante Fe and a Tiburon. Both cars with over 100K miles, zero issues.

A Tuscon or Kia Sportage are at least worth a look and a test drive in that class of vehicles.

skijay · Apr 20, 2009

Subi has a diesel, just not here yet.

http://www.boxerdiesel.com/

campgottagopee · Apr 20, 2009

deadheadskier said:
re-sale value is a problem for now, so it depends if you are someone who keeps their cars for a long time. I believe those values are based on the company's bad reputation for quality up until recently.

Only first hand experience here and as mentioned, 65K miles in and zero issues on the current car. Test drove a Camry, Accord and Ford Fusion and I liked the Sonata better than the other cars.

As mentioned in another thread, my father recently traded in his Infinity M35X for a Genesis. The Genesis out performs the Infinity in every way except a tad less gas mileage. Car cost him 12K less than the Infinity.

My future inlaws have 5/6 year old Sante Fe and a Tiburon. Both cars with over 100K miles, zero issues.

A Tuscon or Kia Sportage are at least worth a look and a test drive in that class of vehicles.

I hear what your saying and realize the company is MUCH better than previous years. I'd just have a hard time putting my hard earned dollars into something that has less than a 50% residule value in 24 mo's, that's all. Right now, IMO, your father would retain more of that 12k he were to spend up front on the Infinity than what he save on the Genesis. If someone plans on running a car into the ground....that's another ball game were Hyundai/Kia should be looked at.

deadheadskier · Apr 20, 2009

campgottagopee said:
I hear what your saying and realize the company is MUCH better than previous years. I'd just have a hard time putting my hard earned dollars into something that has less than a 50% residule value in 24 mo's, that's all. Right now, IMO, your father would retain more of that 12k he were to spend up front on the Infinity than what he save on the Genesis. If someone plans on running a car into the ground....that's another ball game were Hyundai/Kia should be looked at.

You're in the biz and would know better than I on resale. He chose the Genesis purely on performance; the 12K savings was just a bonus. His best friend also recently switched from the top of the line Acura SUV to a Veracruz, same scenario.

Maybe not today, but I'd be willing to bet 4-5 years from now, the resale on Hyundai's will show a marked improvement.

Geoff · Apr 21, 2009

deadheadskier said:
You're in the biz and would know better than I on resale. He chose the Genesis purely on performance; the 12K savings was just a bonus. His best friend also recently switched from the top of the line Acura SUV to a Veracruz, same scenario.

Maybe not today, but I'd be willing to bet 4-5 years from now, the resale on Hyundai's will show a marked improvement.

I guess a point here is that residual value only matters if you are the type who swaps cars every few years. I drive mine until they need to be crushed into a coffee table.

I suspect part of the problem with Korean cars is that many of the owners don't take care of them properly.

Philpug · Apr 21, 2009

skijay said:
Subi has a diesel, just not here yet.

http://www.boxerdiesel.com/

I hope it is still coming, but I am hearing now that it might not be. Shame, it was at the top of my list to get when I am replacing my current Forester.

Geoff said:
I guess a point here is that residual value only matters if you are the type who swaps cars every few years. I drive mine until they need to be crushed into a coffee table.

I suspect part of the problem with Korean cars is that many of the owners don't take care of them properly.

Resale also comes into play when a car is in an accident/totalled or stolen. I agree they still aren't there yet and have taken massive strides to improve. How a few people take care of cars has nothing to do with the global resale value, poor initial quality and huge incentives have to do with resale value.

If you want better resale, don't flood the market, don't use huge rebates and incentives and hold prices. Don't be surprised when there is a $2,000 rebate on a car and 0%financing and the car doesn't retain its value. a $25,000 car that you buy for $20,000 is not a $25,000 car, the $25K is artificially inflated and unrealistic. In this case everyone of that $25K car is used, is now worth $7,000 less. because of the incentives on the new ones.

Geoff · Apr 21, 2009

Philpug said:
If you want better resale, don't flood the market, don't use huge rebates and incentives and hold prices. Don't be surprised when there is a $2,000 rebate on a car and 0%financing and the car doesn't retain its value. a $25,000 car that you buy for $20,000 is not a $25,000 car, the $25K is artificially inflated and unrealistic. In this case everyone of that $25K car is used, is now worth $7,000 less. because of the incentives on the new ones.

That's not a very good argument. If the street price for a $25K sticker price car is $20K, the cost basis is $20K. You need to calculate the depreciation hit from that lower number.

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