333 skis

Terry · Apr 23, 2009

Beetlenut said:
I think the Line Prophet 100 is close. Maybe 14m radius. I was interested in those too. Maybe Terry can comment as I believe he picked-up a pair this year.

They are an awesome ski. I have not found anyplace where they did not ski good except solid ice. I even ran them the last few weeks in the race course and improved my times. I am not a great tree skier but took them into the woods in March and didn't have any problems. Real tight and deep moguls give me problems but they always have so it might just be me. In spring conditions they are fantastic. I would guess they might be good for pond skiming as well!

Philpug · Apr 23, 2009

drjeff said:
Not sure if there's anything in a 100 under foot at the 13/14m radius range. My Atomic B5 Metrons are a 13.2 radius and mid 70's underfoot, I just want something WIDE underfoot that can still turn tight EASTERN trees. Plus I figure based on the geometry of my B5's, to get that 13/14m radius with 100 underfoot, those tips are going to be in the 150+ range Now we're talking!

Icelantic Shaman.

Dimensions are one part of the equation, construction, flex both long and torsional and tail and tip profiles. Personally, I would want to see and ski a example of their product before I can decide what type of ski I would want from them. NeverSummer makes a great wide ski, but I wouldn't want a frontside carver from them, same as I wouldn't want a rockered powder ski from a race stock race ski construction.

I am not dissing this company, I am intrigued by what they are doing and wish them the best and look forward to getting on what they got.

333skis · Apr 25, 2009

Test Skis from 333skis

Tracking inbound traffic to the site and wondered why a strong grouping is showing up from North East US. I thank you for the interest your forum has generated. I updated the site with a section for ski clubs, and forums which makes available test skis at a discounted price. The purpose to acquaint disparate groups with 333 skis. Hope it can be of use.

Somebody expressed a concern over the anchoring system that I utilize at the tip of the ski. The anchor is past effective edge, 3 cm, into the tip before it bends 90 degrees inward for 2 cm. In the picture, I bent to 45 deg but found it faster and cleaner to bend 90 deg. When I get a chance I will see if any other concerns have been expressed so that I may respond. Other wise please feel free to contact directly.

Michael Lish
333skis.com

Rambo · Apr 25, 2009

Welcome 333skis, I checked out your website and it is amazing that you can build custom-made to order skis for $333.

Beetlenut · Apr 25, 2009

333skis said:
Somebody expressed a concern over the anchoring system that I utilize at the tip of the ski. The anchor is past effective edge, 3 cm, into the tip before it bends 90 degrees inward for 2 cm. In the picture, I bent to 45 deg but found it faster and cleaner to bend 90 deg. When I get a chance I will see if any other concerns have been expressed so that I may respond. Other wise please feel free to contact directly.

Michael Lish
333skis.com

Thanks for the response Michael.
I was more concerned in how the tip and tail would hold up to abuse and chipping and splintering without the metal edge wrapping it. Not so much how the edge was anchored. Very interesting concept for manufacturing a ski, and the price is impressive. What type of life span are you getting out of these skis?

eatskisleep · Apr 26, 2009

Hmm... think we could get something like this going on this site?

http://333skis.com/ski-clubs-high-traffic-ski-blog-sites-discounts.php

333skis · Apr 26, 2009

test ski for Alpine Zone

Michael at 333skis,

I rely on the web to reach beyond my local area, Mammoth CA. I set up a program to get test skis out faster to ski forums for review. Getting traffic from your neck of the woods, Northeast US, so I'd be happy to build a test set for individuals on the forum to review and make comment. Is there a central person or the forum admin that I can ship to who would make an effort to get the skis out and about? If this seems like a plausible idea have someone from the forum contact me at michael@333skis.com and I'll get to it. You can review your options for test skis at 333skis.com under the Test ski heading. 333 skis will cover all the cost associated with the Alpine Zone test set so no worries there.

Michael Lish

eatskisleep · Apr 26, 2009

Welcome to the site... I am very interested in the skis, seems like a great concept for a great price in this economy. You might get a lot of people looking to save money and buy American rather than buy $800 factory built skis made in Taiwan. Cool stuff!

Grassi21 · Apr 27, 2009

333skis said:
Michael at 333skis,

I rely on the web to reach beyond my local area, Mammoth CA. I set up a program to get test skis out faster to ski forums for review. Getting traffic from your neck of the woods, Northeast US, so I'd be happy to build a test set for individuals on the forum to review and make comment. Is there a central person or the forum admin that I can ship to who would make an effort to get the skis out and about? If this seems like a plausible idea have someone from the forum contact me at michael@333skis.com and I'll get to it. You can review your options for test skis at 333skis.com under the Test ski heading. 333 skis will cover all the cost associated with the Alpine Zone test set so no worries there.

Michael Lish

Michael, thanks for stopping in. I have been reading over your site. Love the workshop you have set up. I'm shopping for an all mountain sk (Watea and the like) that is more oriented to bumps. The custom ski idea is making my decisoin process much harder.

Greg is the site admin and ruler of Alpinezone. I'm sure you can send him a Private Message to follow up on your questions. If you go to Quick Links in the upper right and select Private Message you can send him a note.

Edd · Apr 27, 2009

Greg said:
Pretty interesting:

http://333skis.com/

Interesting is putting it mildly. I bought skis this year and 2 pairs last season but I'm going to seriously consider this. I'm just really curious how a set of boards these guys make would ski. I might go bonkers trying to decide what dimensions to ask for.

I wonder if someone here will order a set with the AZ logo on them. If so please post pics.

snoseek · Apr 27, 2009

333skis said:
Michael at 333skis,

I rely on the web to reach beyond my local area, Mammoth CA. I set up a program to get test skis out faster to ski forums for review. Getting traffic from your neck of the woods, Northeast US, so I'd be happy to build a test set for individuals on the forum to review and make comment. Is there a central person or the forum admin that I can ship to who would make an effort to get the skis out and about? If this seems like a plausible idea have someone from the forum contact me at michael@333skis.com and I'll get to it. You can review your options for test skis at 333skis.com under the Test ski heading. 333 skis will cover all the cost associated with the Alpine Zone test set so no worries there.

Michael Lish

I'll be skiing for another month or more @ A-Basin. I may even be in Mammoth in early June if the mtn. is still open. I would love to try these skis

eatskisleep · Apr 28, 2009

333skis said:
Michael at 333skis,

I rely on the web to reach beyond my local area, Mammoth CA. I set up a program to get test skis out faster to ski forums for review. Getting traffic from your neck of the woods, Northeast US, so I'd be happy to build a test set for individuals on the forum to review and make comment. Is there a central person or the forum admin that I can ship to who would make an effort to get the skis out and about? If this seems like a plausible idea have someone from the forum contact me at michael@333skis.com and I'll get to it. You can review your options for test skis at 333skis.com under the Test ski heading. 333 skis will cover all the cost associated with the Alpine Zone test set so no worries there.

Michael Lish

Greg what do you think about this? Sounds pretty cool to me... :beer:

333skis · May 11, 2009

The cost of 333 skis $333

I'll give you a quick break down on the costs associated with skis.

The best materials package for nearly all ski companies is between $38 to $54 dollars US. I use a birch wood core, sintered 2000 , knitted fiberglass in tria axial and double bias, rockwell 52 edge stock, and formulated resin. My package is around $42 per set of skis.I have eliminated many of the costs associated with doing business, Factory, Advertising, re shipment from China (K2), Reps, and the graphics for the ski. I do not stock skis and my re order on material is quick so inventory is low. I build skis for a wage, not profit. At $333 per set, less car insurance for the tow truck, and the 12 oz of fuel to build the ski, a few tools that get upgraded, the cost for materials and up keep, I make as much as a bad layer per hour.

I've been in the industry for over 20 years innovating to stream line production. The trailered factory, parked out back, fast track jigs, a keen mind for off the shelf materials which can cut costs dramatically and a sense of fairness in pricing keeps the product priced for a working persons wage.

Hey, I eat better now, build a kill set of skis, have a view when I work, ski a heck of a lot, and love what I do.

Michael
333

deadheadskier · May 11, 2009

That's pretty cool Michael

Where did you learn how to build skis? What was the initial start up cost for the manufacturing equipment?

333skis · May 11, 2009

Regarding edge anchors

My thought on full wrap edges is fuzzy. For all the times you might hit something harder than the composite structure on the tip and tail of the ski you might actually need a steel edge to maintain composite integrity. Keeping in mind the a back country "guide" who might be stabbing the skis in hard pack, a slacker dragging the ski on the parking lot, or the tree that says "hit me," the ski might be better off with a full wrap. It does look good and is the standard for chinese manufacturing (K2, Liberty, Salomon, ect.) and most European stock. It does add cost and and time so the trade of for me is fast track re tooling, shorter build times and a chance to be innovative.

There may be a concern that in ernest I have not addressed, but if I can get hold of these, I will address them.

I hope that the way my responses sound is OK. I try to keep it interesting.

Michael
333

333skis · May 11, 2009

A traditional factory is based on Press capacity. You build the shop around how quickly your press cycle times are, and how many presses you have. A typical cycle time per press is apx. 27 minutes including resin cure at 170 deg, load and unloading of press and clean time. About 2 sets an hour. then you build the material prep side according to the feed rates to keep your builders on time. Then you build the processing side, trim cut, side and base grind, finish and package. A two press shop for cap or sidewall construction can range from $18,000 to $38,000 to set up with used equipement (grinders, band saws, tool boxes) and up to $80,000 for new. Then the time to build it, train staff, the learning curve, the rent, comp, and materials.

My trailer cost $800 to build from scrap and reclaimed material. The rest of the shop comes in under $4500. My Press stacks which are still proprietary are within these costs. I just hope I don't crash the damned thing at 55 mph or in the snow. I was thinking of offering complete shops and training with the technology developed at 333 skis. Level the playing field with China.

Michael
333

333skis · May 11, 2009

deadheadskier said:
That's pretty cool Michael

Where did you learn how to build skis? What was the initial start up cost for the manufacturing equipment?

I'm trying to post next to the original post sorry out of order.

On the web site 333skis.com under the monoski page, http://333skis.com/yama-monoskis.php is my background in detail. As for skis, I learned by listening, and tweaking the tool package from snowboards and the yama tool.

Rambo · May 11, 2009

333skis said:
A traditional factory is based on Press capacity. You build the shop around how quickly your press cycle times are, and how many presses you have. A typical cycle time per press is apx. 27 minutes including resin cure at 170 deg, load and unloading of press and clean time. About 2 sets an hour. then you build the material prep side according to the feed rates to keep your builders on time. Then you build the processing side, trim cut, side and base grind, finish and package. A two press shop for cap or sidewall construction can range from $18,000 to $38,000 to set up with used equipement (grinders, band saws, tool boxes) and up to $80,000 for new. Then the time to build it, train staff, the learning curve, the rent, comp, and materials.

My trailer cost $800 to build from scrap and reclaimed material. The rest of the shop comes in under $4500. My Press stacks which are still proprietary are within these costs. I just hope I don't crash the damned thing at 55 mph or in the snow. I was thinking of offering complete shops and training with the technology developed at 333 skis. Level the playing field with China.

Michael
333

Hey Michael 333: I'm thinking if you developed and started offering those complete shops, some big ski company like K2 or Rossignol would make a substantial offer to buy you out, in order to eliminate competition.

billski · May 11, 2009

333skis said:
A traditional factory is based on Press capacity. You build the shop around how quickly your press cycle times are, and how many presses you have. A typical cycle time per press is apx. 27 minutes including resin cure at 170 deg, load and unloading of press and clean time. About 2 sets an hour. then you build the material prep side according to the feed rates to keep your builders on time. Then you build the processing side, trim cut, side and base grind, finish and package. A two press shop for cap or sidewall construction can range from $18,000 to $38,000 to set up with used equipement (grinders, band saws, tool boxes) and up to $80,000 for new. Then the time to build it, train staff, the learning curve, the rent, comp, and materials.

My trailer cost $800 to build from scrap and reclaimed material. The rest of the shop comes in under $4500. My Press stacks which are still proprietary are within these costs. I just hope I don't crash the damned thing at 55 mph or in the snow. I was thinking of offering complete shops and training with the technology developed at 333 skis. Level the playing field with China.

Michael
333

Damn Michael, this sure is amazing stuff. Putting aside all the compliments, how do I, who knows nothing really about materials order and be sure they will be good for me? I can't demo. I have no doubts about your integrity, so it's not about delivering the goods, it's about getting what's right for me. I hear what you're saying about different materials and formulas, so hear out my curiousity. I'm interested in some east coast, powder day, woods skiing. Trees can be tight, maybe not, quite variable terrain from steep to mellow, knarly lines here and there. Sometime drainage/brook skiing, whatever. Definitely not the west. I'm also getting older, so I don't have the energy I used to. We had a whole discussion last winter about brands and models. The consensus was generally that a wood core was best and that underfoot I should probably be 90s+ underfoot. Do you advise? Or am I better off demoing production stuff and indicating, for example, I like the Volkl Gotama, can you make one like this.
Congratulations on stepping up. I wish you much success!

It's pretty obvious that most of the markup is by the middlemen along the way.

Rambo · May 12, 2009

333skis said:
Michael at 333skis,

I rely on the web to reach beyond my local area, Mammoth CA. I set up a program to get test skis out faster to ski forums for review. Getting traffic from your neck of the woods, Northeast US, so I'd be happy to build a test set for individuals on the forum to review and make comment. Is there a central person or the forum admin that I can ship to who would make an effort to get the skis out and about? If this seems like a plausible idea have someone from the forum contact me at michael@333skis.com and I'll get to it. You can review your options for test skis at 333skis.com under the Test ski heading. 333 skis will cover all the cost associated with the Alpine Zone test set so no worries there.

Michael Lish

Well Michael, I see your local area is Mammoth CA. It seems to me that here in the east we don't hear to much about it, but Mammoth seems to
be 1 big time world class mountain with a long season and tons of snow.

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