Driven: 2010 Subaru Legacy, the car Subaru needs...

campgottagopee · Jun 19, 2009

ComeBackMudPuddles said:
don't understand all the outback hate. maybe i'm wrong, but i thought it was the first iteration of the outback back in the SUV-crazed late 90s that pretty much saved subaru...

You're not kidding--in 1995 subie decided to build nothing but AWD cars introducing the "outback" which really put subie on the map and upped their sales. Hard to imagine not building a fwd car and then seeing incrimental sales because of it. Actually, subaru was the only car company to have an increase in sales in 2008. To me that means something.

Philpug · Jun 19, 2009

ComeBackMudPuddles said:
don't understand all the outback hate. maybe i'm wrong, but i thought it was the first iteration of the outback back in the SUV-crazed late 90s that pretty much saved subaru...

Oh, it created a whole automotive segment (the AMC was the forerunner but all but way before their time), it absolutely saved Subaru.

Warp Daddy · Jun 19, 2009

campgottagopee said:
You're not kidding--in 1995 subie decided to build nothing but AWD cars introducing the "outback" which really put subie on the map and upped their sales. Hard to imagine not building a fwd car and then seeing incrimental sales because of it. Actually, subaru was the only car company to have an increase in sales in 2008. To me that means something.

Yep The Subie has come a Looooooooong way from those early funky small fugly buggers in the late 60's . Man when we saw the first ones up here they looked like a King Midget on Steroids .

But today Subie has a fine line wheels that meet the needs of many folks - i've personally never owned one but certainly understand their mass market appeal . Several ski buddies and one of my kids hasve one or more and they are ;ll well satisfied

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Jun 19, 2009

Edd said:
Outback Sport = Hatchback Impreza. As recently as 2 weeks ago Subaru was offering 0% finacing for as long as 63 months on Imprezas. Very tempting but it's a damn small car. 0% on Outback or Forester = I buy a car.

I have a 2006 Impreza and it's the largest car I've ever had but I had two Jettas and a Sentra before...lease deals on Suburus are really good..I drove the 2009 Impreza wagon/hatchback from Denver to Jackson and the handling was impressive but I only like sedans..I don't like that big back window with the windshield wiper..

Philpug · Jun 19, 2009

campgottagopee said:
You're not kidding--in 1995 subie decided to build nothing but AWD cars introducing the "outback" which really put subie on the map and upped their sales. Hard to imagine not building a fwd car and then seeing incrimental sales because of it. Actually, subaru was the only car company to have an increase in sales in 2008. To me that means something.

I was in a roundtable with Subaru/Fuji Exec's back in 91 (there were interpreters there). One of the things I brought up was to drop FWD and have just AWD. At the time there were over 30 Legacy variations and AWD was just a $750.00 option. If they dropped the FWD, just what they saved in inventories and production costs would make it worth while. Since AWD was synonymous with Subaru it would give a significant marketing advantage.

Didn't Hyundai also increased sales in 08?

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Jun 19, 2009

Philpug said:
I was in a roundtable with Subaru/Fuji Exec's back in 91 (there were interpreters there). One of the things I brought up was to drop FWD and have just AWD. At the time there were over 30 Legacy variations and AWD was just a $750.00 option. If they dropped the FWD, just what they saved in inventories and production costs would make it worth while. Since AWD was synonymous with Subaru it would give a significant marketing advantage.

Didn't Hyundai also increased sales in 08?

Wow so we can attribute Suburus success to PhilPugilese..lol

Philpug · Jun 19, 2009

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:
Wow so we can attribute Suburus success to PhilPugilese..lol

I do what I can. :grin:

mlctvt · Jun 19, 2009

Philpug said:
Don't under estimate vast stupidity of the american car buyers. I don't think the Outback is as bad as you are making it out to be but also don't blame Subaru for building the product people want (not need).

I don't hate the Outback, it is much better than any SUV in my opinion. I just like sport wagons that handle better. As a matter of fact I lowered my '05 Legacy GT wagon so it would handle better. I don't need a tall car with high ground clearance but if I lived in Northern VT on a back dirt road where I needed the ground clearance I'd own either an Audi Allroad or a 2009 Subaru Outback XT.
I also understand offering a product people want. Everyone's bashing the US automakers for building SUVs, but they were what people wanted at that time. It our own fault the US auto industry is in trouble, just not my fault. :smile:

campgottagopee · Jun 19, 2009

Philpug said:
Didn't Hyundai also increased sales in 08?

Nope, just Subaru...somethihng like .08% increase or 400 some units

koreshot · Jun 19, 2009

Hmmm... time to go yell at the average american car buyer who demands huge cars with insane leg room, sub 8 second 0-60, blue tooth, power everything, blah blah. Subie is just making sure that its bread and butter car stays competitive. They are a business after all.

Think about this latest Mazda6 -- it doubled in size cause the market demanded it. How about the Porsche SUV? Most Porsche nuts were ready to kill themselves, but the company needed to make the car to make money.

As far as the new legacy goes, I am not that upset, its not like the last generation was this amazing 'driver's car' anyway. But then again, which subie is -- maybe the STi, but thats about it.

deadheadskier · Jun 19, 2009

koreshot said:
But then again, which subie is -- maybe the STi, but thats about it.

Certainly not my 04 Legacy Wagon. It's a total piece of crap. I think a VW Bus would beat it off the line.

koreshot · Jun 19, 2009

deadheadskier said:
Certainly not my 04 Legacy Wagon. It's a total piece of crap. I think a VW Bus would beat it off the line.

Yeah. Although my biggest problem with Subies is the controls. Spongy brakes, vague shifters and clutch engagement, school bus size steering wheels and ridiculous steering ratios, overly soft suspensions and tall ride heights. IMO, the cars just feel loose.

Geoff · Jun 19, 2009

koreshot said:
Hmmm... time to go yell at the average american car buyer who demands huge cars with insane leg room, sub 8 second 0-60, blue tooth, power everything, blah blah. Subie is just making sure that its bread and butter car stays competitive. They are a business after all.

Think about this latest Mazda6 -- it doubled in size cause the market demanded it. How about the Porsche SUV? Most Porsche nuts were ready to kill themselves, but the company needed to make the car to make money.

As far as the new legacy goes, I am not that upset, its not like the last generation was this amazing 'driver's car' anyway. But then again, which subie is -- maybe the STi, but thats about it.

I think it's inexcusable to buy a car as your daily driver that doesn't get at least 30 mpg at the speed limit in non-city driving.

Just sayin'

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Jun 19, 2009

Geoff said:
I think it's inexcusable to buy a car as your daily driver that doesn't get at least 30 mpg at the speed limit in non-city driving.

Just sayin'

LOL..as long as people can afford the gas..let them drive what they want..I also think it's inexcuseable for people to take more than a 10 minute long shower or crap more than twice a day..

deadheadskier · Jun 19, 2009

Question for camp. I believe I read on here that you're 6'6"? How in the heck do you drive a Subaru anyways? I must be like Shaq on a try-cycle. I'm a hair over 5'8" and drive with the seat all the way back in my Legacy. Subies seem built for midgets to me.

tjf67 · Jun 19, 2009

mlctvt said:
I'm just upset with the new ugly, less driver oriented vehicle. I thought they were on the right track with the '05-09 Legacy but now they're "Americanizing" it.
Make it uglier, taller, bigger, less performance. More people will probably buy it since Americans like tall cars, but I won't be one of them. Right now we've got two Subarus (turbo wagons with manuals) but unfortunaltey these will probably be our last since Subaru has abandoned the performance wagon market.
Like Philpug If I had to buy a new car today it would probably be a Jetta Sportwagon or maybe an Audi A3/A4 or BMW 328XI wagon. Hell maybe even the new Caddy CTS wagon .
Interesting that Subaru discontinues sportwagons when all kinds of new products are coming out.

Not trying to poke the bear. But my inpression which is not hoowie is Subi's are and have always been ugly underperforming low MPG vehicles. but wait they have 4wd. Oh that makes up for it all.

campgottagopee · Jun 19, 2009

deadheadskier said:
Question for camp. I believe I read on here that you're 6'6"? How in the heck do you drive a Subaru anyways? I must be like Shaq on a try-cycle. I'm a hair over 5'8" and drive with the seat all the way back in my Legacy. Subies seem built for midgets to me.

6'4", 6'6" is what the basketball program read. If I'm driving a Subaru it's usually a Tribeca which has plenty of room for someone my height. The new Foresters are a good fit too.

campgottagopee · Jun 19, 2009

Geoff said:
I think it's inexcusable to buy a car as your daily driver that doesn't get at least 30 mpg at the speed limit in non-city driving.

Just sayin'

That's crazy---just sayin'

Edd · Jun 19, 2009

campgottagopee said:
What part of the country was that??? No incentives on Forester but Outbacks you get $2000 reb PLUS special APR, which would equal as good if not better savings than 0%.

That was in Conway, NH. Walked into the dealership and talked with the salesman about it.

campgottagopee · Jun 19, 2009

Edd said:
That was in Conway, NH. Walked into the dealership and talked with the salesman about it.

I'll bet they were buying the rate down....APR on the Imprezas is 2.9 so doesn't take much to buy it down to 0%.

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