Who actually has the Most Powerful Snowmaking System?

Stratton is so overlooked. They have almost all their trails up by Christmas.

Can't believe I'm saying this but okemo has been pretty aggressive the last couple of falls.. They do well considering altitude issues... Must have some firepower...

Much easier to cover a cow pasture

If you got the guns and you don't take them out of the barn until the middle of December what good is it?

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There is a big variation on how rugged certain trails are. If you've never hiked or poached on thin cover, you really don't know.

ok, so there're about zero people here who "really don't know"... <rolleyes>

catskills said:

If you got the guns and you don't take them out of the barn until the middle of December what good is it?

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Uh...

1. Lower cost snowmaking
2. Lower risk snowmaking
3. Limited skier base early season

You can have just as profitable if not more profitable operations if you wait a bit. A benefit is you canoffer cheaper passes and tickets. Face it, not many people actually ski early season. The limited WRODs and limited lifts fool us with their crowds/lines. Spread those folks out over a fully open mountain and the ski area suddenly is a ghost town.

Sure you can use a WROD as a marketing tool and you can make money couple of ski areas have had success on this front. But many ski areas don't bother. Stowe has an increadibky powerful system and they don't bother to open until around Thanksgiving ever year. The HKDs and SnowLogic are altering the math with much cheaper snowmaking costs.

Highway Star said:

There is a big variation on how rugged certain trails are. If you've never hiked or poached on thin cover, you really don't know.

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We've seen your shitty poach job on DF. It definitely doesn't make you an expert on the topic

MadMadWorld said:

We've seen your shitty poach job on DF. It definitely doesn't make you an expert on the topic

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I think the reality is that today, verses a decade ago or so, with the widespread implementation of low e air/water guns and also more and more fanguns in use, let alone lots more actual data about snowmaking efficiency and also a better understanding of how much snow a resort typically needs on a trail over the course of a season to meet their operational goals, that it's not so easy to figure out who really has the most powerful snowmaking system. Hence the use of the term "smart snowmaking" as a bit of a buzz phrase in the industry now.

In the past you could base it on how much compressed air a resort had available or how much water they can pump per minute, or possibly how many guns they can run simultaneously. Nowadays, that's not such a clear cut thing as to what stat is the true sign of "the most powerful" system.

More and more though it seems like the biggest rate limiting factor these days is how much water can a resort pump per minute, as many systems that use a large percentage of low e guns seem to max out on water use before air use, in the past it was often the reverse of that, so that shift needs to be factored into the "most powerful" equation for sure.

In reality, there are a bunch of resorts out there, depending on how they look at their data, could have their marketing departments spin a stat to make it seem like they're the "most powerful" - as long as ample amounts of snow are being produced, both to open terrain, build bases and then in the dreaded post thaw recovery times let the marketing folks lay claim to their "most" superlatives as we're all out on the hill enjoying the product!

Again - "most powerful" - by definition, only means one thing. How much POWER does the snowmaking system have available in the water pumping and air compressor systems. PERIOD.

Most "volume" of SNOW in a given amount of time, amount of air or water doesn't matter... who can make the MOST amount of snow in a given amount of time.

Its all relative. For example, SR can push over 9000 GPM of water at peak production. BUt when they try to make on both the East and West ends at once, that push is significantly reduced due to pushing in two directions simultaneously. They have not fnished it, but they are working to build another pump base out of Jordan to A: boost the overall water pump by 50% and B: to allow for 100% pump capacity when making on both ends. Now, a smaller area like Crotched can push its max water all the time because they don't need to push miles just to get the water to the next trail pod/peak. Killington is hampered by the same dynamic I'm sure as SR when trying to make over on Bear or Skyeship base and out of the K1 base at the same time. Luckily, for the world cup race, Killington is usually concentrated to areas out of the general K1 base and can have 100% of their water push being fully utilized in production at that time.

I'm pretty sure snowmaking on the K-1 side is completely independent from snowmaking at Bear/Skye Peak. Separate compressors & separate water sources. K-1 side uses compressors located halfway up Snowshed & Snowshed Pond as the water source. Bear/Skye Peak uses compressors on the side of the Bear parking lot & the pond also located there as the water source. Running both at the same time should have no effect on the other. Except energy costs of course.

steamboat1 said:

I'm pretty sure snowmaking on the K-1 side is completely independent from snowmaking at Bear/Skye Peak. Separate compressors & separate water sources. K-1 side uses compressors located halfway up Snowshed & Snowshed Pond as the water source. Bear/Skye Peak uses compressors on the side of the Bear parking lot & the pond also located there as the water source. Running both at the same time should have no effect on the other. Except energy costs of course.

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Killington can pump it's full air and water capacity anywhere on the mountian (minus losses). There are several pumphouses mid mountain.

Highway Star said:

Killington can pump it's full air and water capacity anywhere on the mountian (minus losses). There are several pumphouses mid mountain.

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I'm aware of the Glades pump house & the one near the mid station of the Snowdon triple. Where are the other ones located?

Highway Star said:

Killington can pump it's full air and water capacity anywhere on the mountian (minus losses). There are several pumphouses mid mountain.

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Same is true at SR with mid mountain pumps. If steamboat1's post is correct, then Killington cannot push full flow if only making on the K1 side at the time. I doubt this is true.

steamboat1 said:

I'm aware of the Glades pump house & the one near the mid station of the Snowdon triple. Where are the other ones located?

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Top of southridge and middle of snowshed.

Highway Star said:

middle of snowshed.

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I wouldn't call that a pump house. That's where all the compressors are located.