Wheel / tire bolt sizing

deadheadskier · Dec 15, 2009

Glenn said:
The only way they could use that excuse would be if the bolt holes were off just a bit. But then it becomes a "if they're the wrong size wheel...why did you install them?" issue. Also, if they weren't the right size, you shouldn't use the "get a bigger hammer...it'll fit" mentality.

I just got off the phone and Mazda reiterated they are the right size wheel. And like you mentioned, even if they were not, why would JL install them? In order to complete the transaction with the fellow I bought the wheels from, I had 24 hours to determine that they were indeed the right size. I trusted JL as 'professionals' to make that determination for me. If they did not fit, I would've returned the tires. I have the email exchange with whom I bought the tires from stating this. The Mazda folks are taking pictures of the damage for me and writing a detailed inspection of what they found. Looks like I'll be seeing Jiffy Lube in court. :uzi:

Geoff · Dec 15, 2009

deadheadskier said:
Looks like I'll be seeing Jiffy Lube in court. :uzi:

Unfortunately, all the oil change places are the same. If they screw up, they don't make good on it. They hope to cast enough doubt in small claims court that they pay nothing or only a partial settlement.

I've had tire places like Town Fair Tire refuse to mount snow tires. I bought used VW steel rims from somebody with a New Beetle who was doing a wheel upgrade. The rims said VW on them. Town Fair Tire wouldn't touch them due to the liability.

deadheadskier · Dec 15, 2009

This whole process gets worse and worse.

Now, the Mazda dealership is saying that the wheels do not fit properly. So, Jiffy Lube forced tires on that didn't fit correctly causing all of this damage to the vehicle.

At this point the Mazda dealership has a set of wheels and snows that came off of the exact same car in good shape that I will be having them mount.

Jiffy Lube claims zero responsibility for forcing on wheels that did not fit the car. What do people feel is their liability in this matter?

What a freaking nightmare.

o3jeff · Dec 15, 2009

I think they are both giving you the shaft. I think with most wheel bolt patterns it is cut and dry if they fit or not without re-drilling the holes on the wheel. The prices Mazda quoted seem awfully high and now they want to sell you another set of wheels and tires too.

I try to avoid having any work done at a dealer unless it is warranty or recall work

bvibert · Dec 15, 2009

o3jeff said:
I think they are both giving you the shaft.

That was my first thought as well. However if the center bore of the wheel didn't match the hub on the car it could have caused problems.

deadheadskier · Dec 15, 2009

bvibert said:
That was my first thought as well. However if the center bore of the wheel didn't match the hub on the car it could have caused problems.

This is what the dealership said and because of it the lugs would only tighten to a half inch of where they needed to be.

I still have no idea why JL would try and force the wheel on if it did not fit properly. I would think I'd have a case against them for that.

hammer · Dec 15, 2009

deadheadskier said:
This is what the dealership said and because of it the lugs would only tighten to a half inch of where they needed to be.

I still have no idea why JL would try and force the wheel on if it did not fit properly. I would think I'd have a case against them for that.

Agree...JL should have just called you back and said that they could not fit the wheels.

I still think you have a case, but you may only get partial reimbursement.

As far as the replacements and repairs go, if you have an option to get an opinion from someone other than the stealership then I'd take it. May be that you have to go OEM parts...and in that case you are just SOL.

Situation sucks, but thanks for sharing your experience.

Puck it · Dec 15, 2009

Sounds like the offset for the wheels were wrong. This will cause the bolts to not tighened down the lugs. Did you get the offset from the previous owner? JO should have stopped when they bottomed out the lugs. This would do it.

wa-loaf · Dec 15, 2009

Shitty situation all around. Sorry dude. :-(

tjf67 · Dec 15, 2009

deadheadskier said:
This whole process gets worse and worse.

Now, the Mazda dealership is saying that the wheels do not fit properly. So, Jiffy Lube forced tires on that didn't fit correctly causing all of this damage to the vehicle.

At this point the Mazda dealership has a set of wheels and snows that came off of the exact same car in good shape that I will be having them mount.

Jiffy Lube claims zero responsibility for forcing on wheels that did not fit the car. What do people feel is their liability in this matter?

What a freaking nightmare.

I thought you checked and they did fit? I think Jiffy lube put them on wrong and screwed your car up( they will make good when you get to the right person) Now Mazda sees they have this guy all freaked out and they are sticking one up your ass. Slow down before you cost yourself 3k for new snow tires. :flag:

bvibert · Dec 15, 2009

Puck it said:
Sounds like the offset for the wheels were wrong. This will cause the bolts to not tighened down the lugs. Did you get the offset from the previous owner? JO should have stopped when they bottomed out the lugs. This would do it.

An incorrect offset would have only prevented the wheels from seating if the tire or another part of the rim hit something else on the car. That would have made them drag at the very least, or not rotate at all. Seeing as the car drove after they were done I doubt that was the case. I still say the center bore was probably under sized on the wheels, causing the wheel not to seat fully.

deadheadskier · Dec 15, 2009

The car drove 'wobbly' with the improper fitting wheel.

bvibert · Dec 15, 2009

I haven't found any concrete info, but it looks like the Acura you go the wheels from has a center bore of 64.1 whereas your Mazda has a center bore 67.1. I can't seem to nail down that size on the Mazda, but I'm pretty sure about the Acura size. If that's true then there's no way the Acura wheels would have fit correctly on the Mazda.

bvibert · Dec 15, 2009

deadheadskier said:
The car drove 'wobbly' with the improper fitting wheel.

That would make sense if the wheels weren't seated correctly. I feel bad that I didn't look up the above info sooner, it may have saved you a boatload of trouble. Still, Jiffy Lube should have been able to see the problem.

o3jeff · Dec 15, 2009

tjf67 said:
I thought you checked and they did fit? I think Jiffy lube put them on wrong and screwed your car up( they will make good when you get to the right person) Now Mazda sees they have this guy all freaked out and they are sticking one up your ass. Slow down before you cost yourself 3k for new snow tires. :flag:

Screw the local manager since he isn't willing to work with you, start here
http://www.jiffylube.com/about/contact.aspx

deadheadskier · Dec 15, 2009

bvibert said:
That would make sense if the wheels weren't seated correctly. I feel bad that I didn't look up the above info sooner, it may have saved you a boatload of trouble. Still, Jiffy Lube should have been able to see the problem.

Shop manager at JL said that it's not their responsibility to see if the tire fits properly. They'll put on whatever you give them. The only guarantee they promise is that they won't come off while driving. :blink:

Puck it · Dec 15, 2009

bvibert said:
An incorrect offset would have only prevented the wheels from seating if the tire or another part of the rim hit something else on the car. That would have made them drag at the very least, or not rotate at all. Seeing as the car drove after they were done I doubt that was the case. I still say the center bore was probably under sized on the wheels, causing the wheel not to seat fully.

True. It does sound like a center was to small.

bvibert · Dec 15, 2009

deadheadskier said:
Shop manager at JL said that it's not their responsibility to see if the tire fits properly. They'll put on whatever you give them. The only guarantee they promise is that they won't come off while driving. :blink:

That's bullshit.

deadheadskier · Dec 16, 2009

Puck it said:
True. It does sound like a center was to small.

Indeed.

I just visited the 'patient'. I with zero automotive mechanical aptitude would still be able to tell that these wheels were not the right fit for the hubs. The wheel was over a half an inch from being seated fully on the hub. Total case of square peg, round whole and their lack of simple common sense could've possibly resulted in the tire snapping off. How someone with ten years worth of experience could not tell this is beyond me.

The car is being finished up right now. They gave me a loaner to use and I'm about to enter the local district court to final my small claim. If it was questionable that the wheel wasn't right for the car and it was only an 1/8-1/4 inch off, I'd wouldn't bother, but it isn't even close. I think I have a strong case towards reclaiming the $890 it cost to repair the vehicle.

billski · Dec 16, 2009

This is the first I've read this thread. Forgive me if I'm not following this thread properly, but I've questions that will undoubtedly arise in small claims court.

First, the dealership told you they are the right wheels, then later they told you they were not. What changed? Was the first opinion based on verbal and the second on a visual inspection.

Second, even if we presume you had the correct wheels, there is no excuse for cross-threading and over-torquing. If I made that mistake in my business, I am on the hook for fixing at least that mistake.

Third, what was the reason the hubs have to be replaced? Was it because the wheels wobbled? I want to know the root cause.

If they can prevail that they only do as told, I suspect you can get compensated for the new studs, but not the wobble damage. But that's just my $0.02.

The "common sense" thread runs deep here. As a business owner I would not want to let an unsafe car leave my facility without at least fully warning the customer. The shops I go to tend to over-warn me (sometimes I think they are just looking to churn the piggy bank). From there a vigorous discussion ensues about whether the issue is safety-related or not and to understand the risks. Often they make a note of their advice right on the receipt. Good business all around.

Often in court (I've sat on too many juries) the decision comes down to the "reasonableness" criteria. What would a reasonable person do in this situation?

Wheel / tire bolt sizing

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