Place to invest / Retire

i have often thought about buying and or retiring possibly up north and was looking for some feedback as to where might be some of your favorites. it would have to be in VT,NH,or upstate NY maybe Maine but thats a hike from family..by skiing in or around a town that has some sort of civilization...a movie theater, bar life with live music, small town feel. my initial ideas are lake placid, burlington,maybe benninton. not really all that familiar with alot of other places but would like to find that gem of an area i know is out there somewhere. where would you go? your feedback is welcome.

I'd love to have a place up in Littleton, NH: http://outside.away.com/outside/destinations/200508/best-american-towns-3.html

'retire'? what's that?
:-?

faceplant said:

'retire'? what's that?
:-?

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a dream really.

I hope to retire in the town I live in now; Newmarket, NH. I'd love a vacation home up in the mountains (ideally on a lake), but I'm quite fond of the community I live in for year round life.

deadheadskier said:

I hope to retire in the town I live in now; Newmarket, NH. I'd love a vacation home up in the mountains (ideally on a lake), but I'm quite fond of the community I live in for year round life.

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is that rockingham county or merrimack county?

ZYDECORICH said:

i have often thought about buying and or retiring possibly up north and was looking for some feedback as to where might be some of your favorites. it would have to be in VT,NH,or upstate NY maybe Maine but thats a hike from family..by skiing in or around a town that has some sort of civilization...a movie theater, bar life with live music, small town feel. my initial ideas are lake placid, burlington,maybe benninton. not really all that familiar with alot of other places but would like to find that gem of an area i know is out there somewhere. where would you go? your feedback is welcome.

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Be careful what you wish for when it comes to "small town feel". Having grown up in the Boston suburbs myself, it is a significant culture shock when you move up north. I don't think you want "small town feel" but rather "big town feel" or at least to be near a big town. Small towns up here are completely dead but even the bigger towns are fairly quiet. I would not call Burlington anything but a small city, there is nothing small town about Burlington and you will not find happening bar/music scenes nor movie theaters in small town northern New England.

I left MA more than four years ago and I am still adjusting. Even working for a state University in one of the four largest towns north of the Lakes, it is difficult making connections with folks and picking up new friends in the area. We rely on family and our MA friends for companionship which is hard to do when you are two hours away.

Housing up here really can not be considered much of an investment. Prices were pretty low before things tanked and the economy only further depressed values. There is no bet that housing is going to increase much again (especially up here) anytime soon (though I wish it would!). Probably a safe place for your money because it is doubtful values could go much lower though! But don't look for much if any return (except perhaps more happening places such as Burlington, West Leb, N.Conway, etc.).

Personally, I like right where I am for the mountains, lakes, skiing, and access to all of New England. I spent a lot of time thinking about this issue. From a pure skiing perspective, the West Leb area is ideal because you are within 1-2 hours of Vermont's finest and you still have the creature comforts. Burlington may be the best place in New England (though not small town) for access to the best skiing and a very happening cultural scene, though I wouldn't actually want to live in Burlington cause that is what I moved to get away from! Concord, NH may be one of the best options with access to 89/93 in one location but a little further to VT and no major close by locations less than an hour away (again, not small town itself but drive 10 minutes north and you are there). Someone mentioned Littleton which is probably a little better than StJ where I lived for two years... but north of the notch is just a different culture.

Just remember there is a big difference between visiting up here and living up here. Culturally, it is just a completely different ball game unless you are in one of NNE's smaller cities.

I'd go for Lake Winniepesaukee. Plenty of ski areas with in driving distance and great summer activities.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

4aprice said:

I'd go for Lake Winniepesaukee. Plenty of ski areas with in driving distance and great summer activities.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

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X 2 Mulitple quality mountians within an hrs drove form the lakes region, Cannon, Loon, Waterville, Gunstock, North Conway is a little further, even Sunday River isn't a crazy drive.

Good investment as well IMHO, especially if waterfront, they are not making any more waterfront.
Plus 2 hrs from Boston so you can get into the city without too much effort.

Rivercoil - I here you about it being different, coming form the burbs of Boston after extended stays up in the Lakes Region I find myself asking could I really live here year yound, but I think I could get used to it. You do have the Common Man right in Ashland, I need to hit that place up again soon, it used to be our go to for Apres' when we skied at WV/Loon on the way home. We have been hooked on the Corner House in Sandwhich as of late, a little less "Chainy".

I did the reverse of Rivercoil. There are three big factors and I'm not passing judgment. The first is that you will have vastly fewer choices. There will be one of everything. Want to buy a car? You'll be hard pressed to get dealers to compete against each other for example. Second, it's a much greater distance to anywhere. You plot out your trek, you don't just run out for beer. Third, if you are thinking of "retiring" you need to think about medical care quality. Specialists will be spaced much further apart and you won't have much of a choice. Competent, certainly. Lacking in equipment, including big honkin' CAT? Absolutely. How quick can you get to a capable hospital? This is kinda like the other thread about commuting to the mountain. As you get older, the drive time becomes an issue. Certain places like Lebanon as Steve indicated are better-equipped than others.
Still a lot of bitching about high speed internet, got a ways to go, I suspect there will always be "dead spots" without economic value, so choose your lot carefully.

Not at all sure about your current age/situation, but here's my NH specific take: The NH tax structure is great for my current situation (relatively young making decent scratch + no state inc tax, no sales tax; own a modest home so property taxes aren't too crazy). It doesn't work so well for those on a fixed income, especially if you own a nicer home... property taxes are high in NH and tend to increase at a rate greater than inflation. Property values are relatively low but like riv says I don't see them racing up anytime soon... I'll assume your income in retirement is less than while working, so no state inc tax also loses it's luster. Winters can be rough for older folks as well... I don't see myself retiring in New England...

If I had unlimited resources, I'd have two places - one in the country, one near a major metro area.
I understand the property tax situation in VT can be onerous too, though there are some age-bracket exemptions, depending on the town/county. VT also has the infamous "view tax."

ZYDECORICH said:

is that rockingham county or merrimack county?

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Rockingham County

20 minutes to the Beach, 20 minutes to Portsmouth, just over an hour to Portland or Boston. Decent skiing within 2 hours. Sleepy little former mill town with no stop lights. Can't really put a finger on it exactly, I just really like it here.

roark said:

Not at all sure about your current age/situation, but here's my NH specific take: The NH tax structure is great for my current situation (relatively young making decent scratch + no state inc tax, no sales tax; own a modest home so property taxes aren't too crazy). It doesn't work so well for those on a fixed income, especially if you own a nicer home... property taxes are high in NH and tend to increase at a rate greater than inflation. Property values are relatively low but like riv says I don't see them racing up anytime soon... I'll assume your income in retirement is less than while working, so no state inc tax also loses it's luster. Winters can be rough for older folks as well... I don't see myself retiring in New England...

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The tax situation is huge. You're going to buy things in retirement. If you're living off a fixed income, that will stretch a lot further if you don't have to pay a sales tax. Same thing with income tax. If you're getting a pension and/or pulling $$ from a 401k or IRA, you have to pay income tax on these funds, and your money will last a lot longer if you don't have to hand over any to the state government.

Property taxes are high all over the northeast, NH is in line with comparable states. The OP is from NJ, trust me that NH is significantly lower than NJ.

St. Bear said:

The tax situation is huge. You're going to buy things in retirement. If you're living off a fixed income, that will stretch a lot further if you don't have to pay a sales tax. Same thing with income tax. If you're getting a pension and/or pulling $$ from a 401k or IRA, you have to pay income tax on these funds, and your money will last a lot longer if you don't have to hand over any to the state government.

Property taxes are high all over the northeast, NH is in line with comparable states. The OP is from NJ, trust me that NH is significantly lower than NJ.

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Property taxes vary tremendously in New Hampshire. If you live in New Castle or Moultonborough, you pay very little. If you live in Derry, you get slaughtered. Towns with a poor tax base and lots of school children are a poor place to own retirement real estate.

When you are retired, you don't buy a heck of a lot of big ticket items where sales tax is an issue. When you do, you can internet shop to avoid sales tax for everything but your automobile.

I think healthcare access and public transportation access are a big deal. If you retire to rural northern New England, you're basically screwed if something goes wrong. Within 10 miles of Burlington, VT would work. Within 10 miles of Hanover, NH would work. Within 10 miles of Portland, ME would work. Within 10 miles of Portsmouth, NH would work.

I think access to elderly services is also a big deal. That pretty much rules out New Hampshire.

Geoff said:

Property taxes vary tremendously in New Hampshire. If you live in New Castle or Moultonborough, you pay very little. If you live in Derry, you get slaughtered. Towns with a poor tax base and lots of school children are a poor place to own retirement real estate.

When you are retired, you don't buy a heck of a lot of big ticket items where sales tax is an issue. When you do, you can internet shop to avoid sales tax for everything but your automobile.

I think healthcare access and public transportation access are a big deal. If you retire to rural northern New England, you're basically screwed if something goes wrong. Within 10 miles of Burlington, VT would work. Within 10 miles of Hanover, NH would work. Within 10 miles of Portland, ME would work. Within 10 miles of Portsmouth, NH would work.

I think access to elderly services is also a big deal. That pretty much rules out New Hampshire.

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Everyone's situation is different. My in-laws retired last year, and they've bought a lot of bigger ticket items since (TV, sofa, dining room set, car). They figure that now they finally have the time to enjoy these things.

Lake Placid the housing prices are more comparable to westchester county. That being said the values have not gone down in the past couple of years. At least in the price range I can afford. The property/school taxes in the village are so cheap I laugh when the bill comes in. All the hotels and visitors keep them low.
We have a movie theater. Tickets 5 bucks. Popcorn 1.50 soda 75cent. Big Grocery store. Lots of eats options, and we live in a 6 million acre park.

The surrounding areas have cheaper houses but you have to factor in the taxes. I was doing some math and if I were buying a 200k house in saranac lake you could afford a 240k house in lp when you factor in the taxes.

tjf67 said:

Lake Placid the housing prices are more comparable to westchester county. That being said the values have not gone down in the past couple of years. At least in the price range I can afford. The property/school taxes in the village are so cheap I laugh when the bill comes in. All the hotels and visitors keep them low.
We have a movie theater. Tickets 5 bucks. Popcorn 1.50 soda 75cent. Big Grocery store. Lots of eats options, and we live in a 6 million acre park.

The surrounding areas have cheaper houses but you have to factor in the taxes. I was doing some math and if I were buying a 200k house in saranac lake you could afford a 240k house in lp when you factor in the taxes.

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That's very interesting

Good thoughts regarding retiring to a place with good medical facilities and quick access. The north country that generally is not excepting Burlington, Barre, Hanover, and Concord (though I hesitate Concord part of Northern New England.... it is kind of the gateway to NNE.

As mentioned, lack of sales tax not an issue as you can shop online for most things (I sure do up here!). Property tax could be a big issue for retired folk. NH is trying to streamline the property tax structure better but as Geoff mentioned, some areas get it easy and some get screwed. Ironically, it seems like the more well to do areas have the best taxes and working class areas the worst.

Billski makes a great point. I would certainly be moving closer to civilization when I retire rather than towards it as I will hardly be taking advantage of the recreation as much. Five miles north of Concord might be nice.

HD333 said:

Rivercoil - I here you about it being different, coming form the burbs of Boston after extended stays up in the Lakes Region I find myself asking could I really live here year yound, but I think I could get used to it. You do have the Common Man right in Ashland, I need to hit that place up again soon, it used to be our go to for Apres' when we skied at WV/Loon on the way home. We have been hooked on the Corner House in Sandwhich as of late, a little less "Chainy".

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Get north of the Lakes Region and things get rather rural very quickly. Tilton is a virtual city from where I live and Laconia is almost Metro. You get used to it in some ways but you are never of the area when you move up from suberbia or the city. The C-Man? Meh. Over priced tourist trap chain (though they do a lot of good for the NH community). Restaurant situation around here is bleak. StJ had better dining if you can believe it.

Also in regards to the Lakes, keep in mind the driving distance on non-highway roads and tourist traffic will make travel time to the mountains a lot longer. You can probably get to Cannon, Loon, and Waterville faster from Manchester than you could on the north or south side of Lake Winni.

I forgot about the property tax issue in NH, especially on Winni, that could be tough on a fixed income, thankfully we divide ours by 4

riverc0il said:

The C-Man? Meh. Over priced tourist trap chain (though they do a lot of good for the NH community). Restaurant situation around here is bleak.

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I hear you on the chain thing, but the couches upstairs are nice after a day on the slopes and they have pretty good wings and a good beer selection at the Ashland location.

Seems like the C'man and it's Spin Off's (The Camp, Town Docs, Lago)are taking over the Lakes region and especially the town of Meridith for casual dinning options. Like you said they do seem to give back.

For my money you can't beat the Corner House in Sandwich and The Woodshed in Moultonborough.