The Gulf

Marc · May 11, 2010

drjeff said:
Agree 100%

A secondary issue I think is that a vast percentage of society has come to expect 100% of the benefits with 0% risk involved, when that equation is impossible.

If you step back and consider that there's 1000's of drilling rigs operating safely 24/7/365 and extracting mind boggling amounts of oil from far below the earth's surface with a phenomenal safety record, the oil industry as a whole is a very safe one. But just like every now and then a plane crashes or someone gets struck by lightening, freak events/accidents happen - sometimes as a result of human error and sometimes as a result of nothing other than just bad/random luck

In this area of the Gulf alone:

bvibert · May 11, 2010

Great post c-ten!

Glenn · May 11, 2010

ctenidae said:
Note to readers: I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I also want to lead off by saying it's completely not aimed at any individual, in particular WakeboardMom. She just happened to have a reasonable post that reminds me just how unreasonable many people can be. The following is not intended to be political. I fully realize that to the engineers among us, the sequence of events is a gross oversimplification. The nitty gritty isn't that important for our purposes. I also realize that I cannot type "the" or "and" accurately regularly.

As I understand it, it's absolutely not a case of this or that alarm not going off. It was an exploration well that they drilled, to see if there were hydrocarbons present. There are, hooray, so you plug the hole up, seal it up tight, and call in a development drilling rig (the one that sank drills 1 hole fast, then moves on.SNIPPED

An excellent writeup. Thanks for sharing.

drjeff · May 11, 2010

Marc said:
In this area of the Gulf alone:

Yup, just a staggering amount of drilling rigs out there!

My father used to do some HR consulting work for a firm out of Shreveport, LA whose only business was the refurbishment and reselling of old drilling pipe - they were a high 8 figure/almost 9 figure company back a few years ago, and this was pre-Katrina and they were expecting to see a HUGE increase in the demand for those long cyclindrical pieces of steel post Katrina when so many of those platforms had to replace some segments of pipe.

Geoff · May 11, 2010

ctenidae said:
<snip>

There aren't that many choices. Drive, and either destroy the Gulf or fund terrorists, or don't. Or, drive less, spend more to do it, and pay for an alternative. Whatever, don't go lambasting the evil oil executives who are intentionally trying to destroy the environment.Throw a little of that blame around, splash a little on the NIMBYs and BANANAs. Give a cup to SoccerMom, and a jigger to...okay, I don't have a male equivalent to SoccerMom. Because the engineers will figure out a way to keep this from happening again, just like they'll figure out a way to keep the next bad thing from happening again, and the next bad thing after that. And some day, we'll decide the price is too high. Whether it's at the gas pump, or at the grocery store, or at the tarmac wasteland that used to be a beach. And then, maybe, just maybe, we'll do something useful about it.

...or we could have public policy where we burn imported oil until the world runs out of that. We then start tapping our reserves. In parallel, we have a coherent energy policy where we mostly wean ourselves of hydrocarbons. Nukes for electricity supplemented with other renewables where it's viable. High speed electric rail that can carry electric cars. Electric cars for the urban folk and hydrogen hybrid cars for the rural folk. We could easily get rid of 100% of our coal-fired electric plants in 20 years. We can build efficient rail infrastructure in the next 20 years. It's mostly having the courage to stand up to all the NIMBY people and start spending money on infrastructure rather than defense and entitlement programs.

drjeff · May 11, 2010

Geoff said:
...or we could have public policy where we burn imported oil until the world runs out of that. We then start tapping our reserves. In parallel, we have a coherent energy policy where we mostly wean ourselves of hydrocarbons. Nukes for electricity supplemented with other renewables where it's viable. High speed electric rail that can carry electric cars. Electric cars for the urban folk and hydrogen hybrid cars for the rural folk. We could easily get rid of 100% of our coal-fired electric plants in 20 years. We can build efficient rail infrastructure in the next 20 years. It's mostly having the courage to stand up to all the NIMBY people and start spending money on infrastructure rather than defense and entitlement programs.

All sounding great and reasonable, until your last 2 words! You'd need to 1st elect, and then keep elected for the majority of the foreseeable future a supermajority of politicians who would actually draft and pass the legislation to do so, and that more than likely just ain't happening anytime soon

bvibert · May 11, 2010

I know we're skirting right on the edge, but lets make sure we keep partisan political commentary out of this... All is good thus far. Just saying.

Marc · May 11, 2010

bvibert said:
I know we're skirting right on the edge, but lets make sure we keep partisan political commentary out of this... All is good thus far. Just saying.

Feckin' commie fascist.

wa-loaf · May 11, 2010

The cost of clean-up for BP is just a drop in the bucket: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/10/AR2010051004664_pf.html

Now's a good time to buy their stock ...

ctenidae · May 11, 2010

drjeff said:
Yup, just a staggering amount of drilling rigs out there!

Inteestingly, the vast majority of those aren't drilling rigs. I think there are only 18 drill rigs operating in the Gulf right now. Regulation has made it too expensive to have more there, so they've been leaving as they come off contract. Oil keeps sitting around $80, it starts to be economic again.

o3jeff · Jun 2, 2010

'Titanic' director Cameron joins effort to plug Gulf spill
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100601/en_afp/usoilpollutionenvironmentfilm

Whats he going to do, make a movie?

Might as well say I joined the effort too

drjeff · Jun 2, 2010

o3jeff said:
'Titanic' director Cameron joins effort to plug Gulf spill
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100601/en_afp/usoilpollutionenvironmentfilm

Whats he going to do, make a movie?

Might as well say I joined the effort too

At first I thought the same thing too, but then I heard on the news this morning that he was brought in as a consultant because he's considered an expert in the field of underwater robotics and filming technologies. For that reason, I can see why he might be able to help, since it's the underwater robots and the cameras that are ultimately going to play a huge role in the fixing of this mess!

dmc · Jun 2, 2010

You can't just send boats out to clean this crap up.... It's toxic and destructive.. Fishermen are already getting sick..

drjeff · Jun 2, 2010

dmc said:
You can't just send boats out to clean this crap up.... It's toxic and destructive.. Fishermen are already getting sick..

In a weird sort of way, something tells me that as unfortunate as it seems that a good hurricane or too hitting that area this year might actually HELP in the clean up of this debacle. With so much of the oil underwater and in essence unreachable currently by the skimmers/etc, getting it onshore, as counter intuitive as it may seem might actually make the cleanup efforts easier and quicker for things

dmc · Jun 2, 2010

drjeff said:
In a weird sort of way, something tells me that as unfortunate as it seems that a good hurricane or too hitting that area this year might actually HELP in the clean up of this debacle. With so much of the oil underwater and in essence unreachable currently by the skimmers/etc, getting it onshore, as counter intuitive as it may seem might actually make the cleanup efforts easier and quicker for things

yeah...

I'm just worried that people are going to rush down to help and end up sick... Like the 911 responders... We have to be careful.

Marc · Jun 2, 2010

dmc said:
yeah...

I'm just worried that people are going to rush down to help and end up sick... Like the 911 responders... We have to be careful.

If there's a silver lining in that worry of yours it's that we have a lot more experience with crude oil than with burning and collapsing sky scrapers in the way of health effects.

Kind of a side but related note... anyone that hasn't watched the documentary Fires of Kuwait, I'd highly recommend. And as a bonus, Rip Torn is the narrator.

dmc · Jun 2, 2010

Marc said:
If there's a silver lining in that worry of yours it's that we have a lot more experience with crude oil than with burning and collapsing sky scrapers in the way of health effects.

Do we? Cause fishermen are already getting sick..

Marc · Jun 2, 2010

dmc said:
Do we? Cause fishermen are already getting sick..

Yes.

dmc · Jun 2, 2010

Marc said:
Yes.

ok

ctenidae · Jun 2, 2010

dmc said:
Do we? Cause fishermen are already getting sick..

Difference is, we know what from in the Gulf. Proper training, procedures, and equipment can prevent it. Not saying those three are being supplied or used, but they do know what they're dealing with.

The Gulf

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