Killington is going to open before Sunday River this season.

JPTracker · Aug 28, 2010

Highway Star said:
Removeable? Or if it's less than a foot off the ground they don't need them at all right there?

From the ACT 250 permit application:

Walkway will a “raised” design and sit on existing stabilized ground.

and also:

Although these projects have the potential for being later in the construction season, there will be minimal to no excavation. Excavation is limited to the footings for the two hut relocations.

and also:

This project consists of constructing a raised 4' wide 750' railed walkway from the top of the North Ridge Triple lift to the K1 Gondola terminal. The pressure treated matted walkway with long flat sections and sporadic sections of stairs will provide early season access to upper level skiing and riding. The walk will take approximately 5 to 8 minutes and can be utilized for hikers and K1 Gondola guests in the summer. The route of this walkway follows an existing trail and will require no cutting of trees along it's route.

From this I think the walkway will be no more than pressure treated mats laying directly on the ground, easily covered by snow making. If the walkway was off the ground then some kind of footing would have been involved. Not sure how they can build stairs without footings and keep them stable.

Highway Star · Aug 28, 2010

JPTracker said:
From this I think the walkway will be no more than pressure treated mats laying directly on the ground, easily covered by snow making. If the walkway was off the ground then some kind of footing would have been involved. Not sure how they can build stairs without footings and keep them stable.

After thinking about it futher, I'm not at all worried about heavenly traverse being skiable. It's already a very rugged trail with ledges, deadfall and stumps all over the place, and is very off camber. The reason you don't see that is because it typically gets a 5 to 10 ft base of natural snow. I've hiked it in the summer and seen the trees directly above double dipper - they are 12-15 feet tall but are only knee-waist high during the ski season...buried. If anything, a leveled off walkway will make the trail skiable with less snow. A set of 4 stairs is nothing when covered in snow.--------------

As far as not needing footings - it is very rocky up there, they can probably have the posts sit on the rock or anchor to the rock. The trail is very off camber and the walkway will certainly need posts on the downhill side to build it level

I think the railings would need to be removable. When it gets buried with 5-10 ft of packed snow/ice and that starts to shift down hill, they would be torn off quite easily. The walkway itself could probably take it, but will probably end up needing yearly work after ski season to move it back into place and straighten it out.

Rogman · Aug 29, 2010

My guess is that their description of a raised walkway is substantially different than what most people are assuming. I suspect "raised" means nothing more than a 4' wide walkway fasted to 2x4 planks lying flat on the ground, which would be leveled and/or filled to accommodate the construction.

The budget indicates it will cost about 80K for 700 feet, i.e. 110$/foot. A walkway actually resting on posts would require pairs of posts every 8 feet; that's nearly to 200 holes that have to be dug at least 2' deep, in some pretty rocky terrain. The budget for something like that would have to be substantially larger.

A walkway, raised up on 2x4's on the flat, is far simpler, far cheaper, and won't interfere with midwinter skiing, since even a few inches of snow will bury it. The railing is probably posts with rope stretched between them; easily removed for midwinter skiing.

Great business decision. The payback is immediate; it will more than pay for itself in a single season, and guarantee Killington can be open for the Thanksgiving weekend. They may well go for first in the East. POWDR owned Las Vegas resort, missed being first in the west by only a few hours to Loveland. Cumming has tweeted that he wants to be first this year. No reason he can't be first in the East, too.

deadheadskier · Aug 29, 2010

I would think it would have to be more than just 2 X 4's on the ground. Maybe if they had some decent grip tape. Walking on decking in Ski Boots can be quite deadly with a bit of water/snow/ice on it. From a liability standpoint, you'd think they'd want to put a railing in.

Rogman · Aug 29, 2010

deadheadskier said:
I would think it would have to be more than just 2 X 4's on the ground. Maybe if they had some decent grip tape. Walking on decking in Ski Boots can be quite deadly with a bit of water/snow/ice on it. From a liability standpoint, you'd think they'd want to put a railing in.

I'm guessing 1x6 bull nosed pressure treated decking fastened to 2x4 stringers laid on the ground. The railing is probably pipe, driven into the ground, with a rope strung between them. Anything fancier makes no sense. I agree, ice will be a problem, but I see this as a short term solution until they redo the entire upper mountain area. I fully expect to see another lift to the peak eventually. Something parallel to the K1 down Cascade probably makes the most sense, but there are a lot of options, that have all been beaten to death.

Newpylong · Aug 29, 2010

sLoPeS said:
the top half of that trail gets roped off because of the gondi's getting low to the ground, so what is "open" is about 4 turns worth.

personally, I like to use the word "reserved" rather than "closed"...:grin:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2282/2502833597_f2bcf16fd3.jpg?v=0

I only remember the area directly below the gondola here being roped off, but you could ski to either side...

Tin Woodsman · Aug 31, 2010

JPTracker said:
From this I think the walkway will be no more than pressure treated mats laying directly on the ground, easily covered by snow making. If the walkway was off the ground then some kind of footing would have been involved. Not sure how they can build stairs without footings and keep them stable.

How can it simply be mats laying on the ground if it's being described as a "raised walkway"? Those two descriptions are incompatible with one another.

drjeff · Aug 31, 2010

Tin Woodsman said:
How can it simply be mats laying on the ground if it's being described as a "raised walkway"? Those two descriptions are incompatible with one another.

"raised" might end up being a relative term

Highway Star · Aug 31, 2010

Again, let me state this again. No part of Heavenly Traverse is anywhere near flat/level. It is very rugged and off camber. Any walkway will need to be supported by posts on the downhill side.

drjeff · Aug 31, 2010

Highway Star said:
Again, let me state this again. No part of Heavenly Traverse is anywhere near flat/level. It is very rugged and off camber. Any walkway will need to be supported by posts on the downhill side.

The more and more I think about this, the more and more I get the idea that this walkway could very well end up being like an alpine slide track in its assembly, where there are some small, permanent footings installed into the ground, and then individual, completely assembled segements that can be installed/removed onto those footings in a relatively quick and easy fashion

skiadikt · Aug 31, 2010

was up this weekend. nothing started yet. having gone up the catwalk stairway, i'm thinking it has to be similar to that.

RENO · Aug 31, 2010

I'm guessing they'll start building after this weekend since they'll be going to weekend only operation after Monday until Oct 2nd...

skiadikt · Aug 31, 2010

RENO said:
I'm guessing they'll start building after this weekend since they'll be going to weekend only operation after Monday until Oct 2nd...

maybe ... but they've been doing a lot of work on great eastern with tons of blasting (and still a long way to go) so whether the mtn is open or not shouldn't be an issue.

RENO · Aug 31, 2010

skiadikt said:
maybe ... but they've been doing a lot of work on great eastern with tons of blasting (and still a long way to go) so whether the mtn is open or not shouldn't be an issue.

Only difference is that now they'll be doing a lot of work around the gondola and the peak lodge so I would imagine they would want to keep people away from there and most likely close the lodge. I would also guess that they might have to reconfigure the deck at the entrance to the lodge too. Possibly rip it out and put in a whole new configuration. I guess we'll find out soon...

SpinmasterK · Sep 2, 2010

New Blog posted: Early Season Insurance

http://www.killington.com/winter/beast/blog/authors/tom/early-season-insurance

Greg · Sep 2, 2010

SpinmasterK said:
New Blog posted: Early Season Insurance

http://www.killington.com/winter/beast/blog/authors/tom/early-season-insurance

Fingers crossed for early cold.

WJenness · Sep 2, 2010

From the link:

Our goal for kicking off the season remains the same: We are committed to open as early as possible for our guests with a sustainable quality product. “It is important for us to be open as early as reasonably possible, as it is a critical element in our overall operating plan,” Temple says. A quality product is defined as one that allows for snowmaking mounds to “dry and cure” for a period of time before grooming and opening. This process greatly improves the durability and quality of the snow surface.

Funny how things change<cough>remain the same</cough>... :snow:

-w

gmcunni · Sep 2, 2010

Greg said:
Fingers crossed for early cold.

i'd take a repeat of this day, but earlier if possible :-D

powhunter · Sep 2, 2010

That was a fine day at the institution

bvibert · Sep 2, 2010

gmcunni said:
i'd take a repeat of this day, but earlier if possible :-D

That was a great day, wasn't it? My legs are tired just from watching/remembering it though!

Killington is going to open before Sunday River this season.

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