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Hiker's Body Recovered In White Mountains

Greg

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ChileMass

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I don't get it. Where's the common sense? Not everyone needs to prove they are world-class-tough enough to camp in the Whites when it's -60*F with the windchill. This is really unfortunate all the way around. This guy is dead, and I wonder if he left a family behind. Pretty irresponsible if you ask me. I feel badly for the search and rescue people who have to do this sort of thing all winter long. Between this guy and those dopey kids at Killington the other night, maybe people will get a grip and wait until the temps moderate a little......

Signed -

Mr. Curmudgeon....... :evil: :evil: :evil:
 

MtnMagic

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ChileMass

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You know - I saw on the Boston news tonight that in fact this guy was a WMNF Ranger. Obviously, the guy had experience, but common sense? It's too bad. When it's -60*F windchill, it's time to head home......
 

Greg

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ChileMass said:
When it's -60*F windchill, it's time to head home......
This whole thing is unfortunate, but I have to agree. I can understand that some people are drawn to testing the limits, etc., but it was no secret that the weather this week would not only be extreme, but extremely dangerous. CM makes a good point as to whether this guy was married or worse, had any kids that are now without a father. I couldn't imagine putting myself in a situation that may lead to my daughter never seeing me again. :-?
 

Mohamed Ellozy

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MtnMagic said:
I, as well as many hike in full winter conditions.
The Scotts call them simply "full conditions":
Through out the day, Douglas told us about Scottish mountaineering and what the Scots refer to as "Full Conditions". "Full Conditions" are what happens to a route that is pounded with north atlantic weather of foul proportions...rain, snow, ice. Also about a terrifing thing called verglas...(aka the mountaineering version of freezing rain), and the joys of using turf spikes for pro. Brave dudes those Scots are...

Quoted from: Ice Climbing: WAD Valley, Jasper National Park, Alberta

At my age (66) I obviously stay home and put another log in the wood stove under such conditions. But I certainly understand those who enjoy them.

I am not commenting about the accient itself, we know far too little at this stage to do so.
 

runs247

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This is definitely an unfortunate turn of events for him and his family. Being a ranger, I would think he would have saw the dangerous conditions and scooted for home.
 

Mike P.

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I'd be more interested to get more details. I read he had a below zero bag was that a -5? Way too light for conditions, unsure a -20 would have been much better? As I read it, they spotted him via the copter so was he on S. Twin above treeline?

In a -5 he may have awoken quite hypothermic, how far from his camp did he get?

I don't think we will get all the details, I look forward to seeing the reprt, Mo, is that one of your responibilities for Appalachia?

My thoughts & prayers go out to Kenneth's family.

What happened on Killington?
 

ChileMass

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[quote="

What happened on Killington?[/quote]

Last week a couple of 18/19 year old guys skied off the backside of Killington peak and spent a night trying to walk out when it was about -25*F and -50*F windchill. One kid made it out to a nearby house and the search & rescue people found the other kid a couple hours later, but by then he had been outside for almost 24 hours. Not a good situation, but they lived to tell the story......
 

SilentCal

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My heart goes out to this man's family. He was doing what he loved to do. Yes, I think he made a bad judgement but we have to ask ourselves how many times do we make bad judgements and are lucky enough to walk away. Kenneth's death should be a reminder and lesson to us all that the outdoors is someplace to take seriously and realize the limits of our abilities.
 

Mike P.

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I wonder if they skiied down the AT? It runs up one side, comes near the top & then heads south. When I hiked to the top of Killington from Route 4 we missed the spur trail to the top & when we started down the AT was only about 20 or 30 feet through the trees from a ski slope so we bushwhacked (almost literally, one bush :) ) and then walked up the ski slope.

It wouldn't be too hard to imagine the kids thinking they had found a narrow glade run & headed down the AT.

(Okay so I'm optimistic that they just were not goofing off.)
 

MichaelJ

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As we know, he made a phone call from the woods to a friend. That friend has posted his side of the story on Views From the Top. I can't directly link to it, but go to the Forums, the Q&A forum, pick "Tragic News in NH", and read the posting by Hikerfast near the bottom of page 1.

I had to take a silent moment afterward.

The obituary is here
 

Stephen

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Wow.

Now you know why I ask tons of questions about details on hiking winter... Every time I plan a hike, one of my stated goals is not to become a newapaper story the next day.

Prayers going up...

-T
 

ChileMass

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Greg said:
Here's the VFTT thread:

http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=1522&pagenumber=1

Turns out this guy had five kids. :-? Hikerfast's post was extremely sad, but I still feel it's pretty irresponsible for a father of five to head out in those conditions. Be careful out there!

Unreal - 5 kids. HikerFast's post on VFTT is a difficult read, no doubt.

Can we all just agree that it's perfectly OK to test one's limits, but it's also important to factor in the conditions? There was another recent thread on VFTT which asked whether the AMC White Mountian Guide is really accurate in the many, many instances where it strongly suggests exiting the mountains any time adverse conditions occur. The respondents on VFTT went out of their way to stress how accurate the descriptions are, and how everyone, especially newcomers, should pay close attention to the trail descriptions, recommendations, etc. As a casual summer hiker, I have read all of the trail descriptions in the guidebook to make sure I knew what I was getting into before heading out from the trailhead. These guys know what they are talking about. I recommend it to anyone on this board as an indispensable source of info and good advice.....
 

Greg

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ChileMass said:
There was another recent thread on VFTT which asked whether the AMC White Mountian Guide is really accurate in the many, many instances where it strongly suggests exiting the mountains any time adverse conditions occur. The respondents on VFTT went out of their way to stress how accurate the descriptions are, and how everyone, especially newcomers, should pay close attention to the trail descriptions, recommendations, etc. As a casual summer hiker, I have read all of the trail descriptions in the guidebook to make sure I knew what I was getting into before heading out from the trailhead. These guys know what they are talking about. I recommend it to anyone on this board as an indispensable source of info and good advice.....
FYI - the AMC WMG is available on our Hiking section. It truly is the White Mountain Hiker's Bible and, while a bit conservative on hiking times, it's extremely informative and useful. Once you get out a few times you'll be able to figure out your hiking time/book time conversion factor.

One thing bugging me in the VFTT post is where Hikerfast mentions Kenneth "said it was a little colder than he expected". Obviously he must have had some expectation of the extreme conditions beforehand, and he still decided to risk it...
 

MichaelJ

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The thing is, we all push ourselves - we all try new trips, go further, go in worse conditions. Under better circumstances we consider it just being more experienced. We do not limit ourselves to clear, 75-degree days: we hike in the rain, the clouds, the snow, and the cold.

The same weekend that Ken was out, I was in the Adirondacks. Throughout the weekend, many of us hiked all across the range. I joined a group that hiked to Street and Nye. The summits were sheltered but the wind came through in spots. The air temperature was colder than -20F (estimated at -25F). Had Ken's tragedy not struck, our experiences would have been considered enjoying hard-core winter hiking. They would have been discussed without fear and in many circles not only without criticism but with pride. I even left the group at the col and summitted the closer Nye alone while they went off to the further Street (which I skipped). And many didn't gave camping in -12F a second thought.

This is what hikers of any season do - we put ourselves at risk with every step. We take chances, revel in the views and experiences we gain, and hope that we don't slip on that rock, twist an ankle, or otherwise incur injury. And every time we overcome an obstacle, we add it to our experience and look to assault the next greater obstacle.

I do fault Ken for going alone on this trip. Although cell phone contact was a good thing to have, in the case of the disorientation and poor judgement of hypothermia, it was no help. Once his core temperature had dropped, his decision-making ability failed him. Had he had a partner who could recognize that, a quick bivy and a lit stove could have saved his life.

But I will not fault him for hiking in this weather. Many of us hiked last weekend, and enjoyed and reveled in the cold. It would be duplicitous of me to criticize what I myself did, and know I will do again.
 

MtnMagic

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For many days my mind searched for the words. MichaelJ spoke my thoughts effortlessly in all 5 of the above paragraphs. Heck, I do more hiking in the winter than in the summer. Then there's skiing, shoeing, skating just outside my dooryard. So why not?! It is extremely difficult to live here looking at scores of mtns everyday and not have the desire to hike every one of them, regardless of the cold, or the bugs, over and over again.

It was -30 last night, that's minus 30 degrees below zero. Two weeks ago it was -35 below. Little children skated in the many outdoor skating rings all over NH North Country. They were a little cold like all of us. But I heard them laughing, having enjoyment like we were, in the cold, happiness right to ones soul! Others choose tv and movies. I love the outdoors in all seasons!

I soloed Owl's Head on a Monday in winter cold and icy conditions because all of my hiking buddies had to work and i *just had* to complete them all. ONly one left. In retrospect, it was colder than I thought. I even hopped on rip rap (boulders) to cross brooks. Stepped on what I thought was wet rock only to discover way to late it was coated with ice. Lost my balance and hopelessly fell in the frigid water. It was most possible my backwards fall could have hit my head on all those rocks, I could have died, and I new that days before in the planning stages, and I still went solo. The plunge in the roaring brook caused me to be soaked -- but not cold in the 20 something degree temperature. If I had many children I would have done it, and would still do it again, solo or not. The icey conditions on the Slide Trail were seriously dangerous. Yet after all those other mtns and this one last one left to do, I continued onward.

I went hiking twice this weekend. It was way below zero. Even the love of my life, Sky went hiking with me on Sunday. Easily we could say it was colder than expected. She was colder than I think she'll admit. But we did it successfully and we'll do it again!
__________________
We enjoyed it completely.
 

Greg

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I wasn't going to reply again to this thread, but I think I need to clarify a few things. I certainly respect those with the knowledge, experience, and drive to hike the Whites in the winter. If I was closer to the WMNF and had any spare time during the winter, I probably would hike in the winter too. In fact, I would like to get into more winter hiking and snowshoeing and plan to do some hikes this winter in Northwest Connecticut. I respect the White Mountains and people's love for them so much that I in part started a Website dedicated to the area, i.e. the Northeast.

However, I still feel it's somewhat irresponsible to solo hike/camp during the coldest weather we've seen in years. But hey, if you're a single guy or gal and have the experience, have at it. But throw a family into the mix and you're getting into extremely irresponsible territory (IMO). We're talking about five kids that no longer have a dad because he felt the lure of the mountains was too much to resist. Those kids will now no longer know what it's like to go hiking with their dad again.

Now, I'm going to make some assumptions here and some of these comments may seem a bit crass, but what now if those kids were relying on Kenneth financially? What if he doesn't have a life insurance policy that will keep that family going? Will an insurance company even pay?

For those of you with kids, you know what I'm talking about. There are more important things in life than fulfilling the need for a mountain fix. It's pretty selfish considering the situation. I'm certainly not saying it's irresponsible to hike in the winter, but with temps like we saw during this incident, I think it would've made much more sense for Kenneth to wait until things moderated a bit.
 

MtnMagic

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If those could see what we see, hike every day, and have the real *hiking bug*, they would hike too. Rich, poor, dependent, insurance/none, ya thiddy ya.

That's like saying any mother or father went on ski adventure, hit a tree, and died. What's the family to do, was he/she irresponsible?! I went on a jet, it was hijacked, and we crashed. Irresponsible? No way, I call it fate!
 
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