Rumor: Burke Mountain to announce new High Speed Quad to the top?

SkiingInABlueDream · Oct 27, 2010

riverc0il said:
That said, I still wouldn't mind a lift up East Bowl if the glades are mostly kept in tact and perhaps a few added. That would be a sensational pod to lap, especially with a few more glades cut and a lift line trail.

Just looking at the Burke map now. Where would you put the base of the lift? If it ran from somewhere below Throbulator up to the summit it would cut through a few regular runs also (Powderhorn & Dipper). Actually, Google sat view would be a better reference.

[Edit: Big surprise, it looks different on satellite view! OK, I think a liftline could exist discretely in there. And Burke would surely be above cutting a 200-ft wide liftline trail along with it!]

Masskier · Oct 28, 2010

skifastr said:
Just looking at the Burke map now. Where would you put the base of the lift? If it ran from somewhere below Throbulator up to the summit it would cut through a few regular runs also (Powderhorn & Dipper). Actually, Google sat view would be a better reference.

[Edit: Big surprise, it looks different on satellite view! OK, I think a liftline could exist discretely in there. And Burke would surely be above cutting a 200-ft wide liftline trail along with it!]

This lift is on the master plan and is located further below the bottom of the East Bowl trail, (below the cutback). So it will add additional vertical to the East side.

from_the_NEK · Oct 28, 2010

Masskier said:
This lift is on the master plan and is located further below the bottom of the East Bowl trail, (below the cutback). So it will add additional vertical to the East side.

This is true. I worked up a few views of what the general layout should look like according to the masterplan filed for Act250.
Here is an overview of the whole mtn with the proposed new lifts in hot pink. The East Bowl lift is the farthest to the left:

Here is a shot looking straight up the lift line. The bottom of the lift is around 1,8015 ft, the top around 3,180' resulting in a 1,365' vert pod. It will have to go down this low to allow access to skiers to coming off of the propsed Cutter lift that is at the bottom of the first pic. The length of the lift would be a little over 5000'.

There is about 285 feet of vert below the existing East Bowl runout (the white trail in the first picture). There are going to be a few rather low angle spots in there.
The upper part of the lift line will cut through the middle of Caveman and the upper section of the Dixieland glades (dark green trails). Throbulator looks to be spared. Hopefully, if this is a double chair installation, the lift line cut wouldn't need to be very wide.

Finally, here is what it would look like from Umpire Mtn:

Masskier · Oct 29, 2010

"This is true. I worked up a few views of what the general layout should look like according to the masterplan filed for Act250.
Here is an overview of the whole mtn with the proposed new lifts in hot pink. The East Bowl lift is the farthest to the left:" ftnek

Thanks for posting this. I beleive they have eliminated the beginner lift in the field below mid Burke.

Masskier · Oct 31, 2010

I also heard that a new mid Burke Lodge may be in the cards for next year.

deadheadskier · Oct 31, 2010

interesting maps. So the Willoughby Quad would remain with a shorter configuration?

thetrailboss · Oct 31, 2010

Masskier said:
I also heard that a new mid Burke Lodge may be in the cards for next year.

My understanding is that the last plan was to raze MidBurke and replace it with a temporary Sprung Structure. I would not be excited by that. The goal was to pre-sell units for the "hotel/condo complex" that will sit at MidBurke. Of course plans change and I don't have the same sources that I used to.

Regardless, I would hope that if the plan is implemented that they would put in something decent for a midmountain lodge.

thetrailboss · Oct 31, 2010

deadheadskier said:
interesting maps. So the Willoughby Quad would remain with a shorter configuration?

Yes. With both the Poma and Quad shortened. The former is not a good idea in my mind since it is a good backup on a windy day. The Willoughby would terminate at Tower 17, or near there, which is near where Fox's Folly cuts into Warren's Way.

Masskier · Nov 1, 2010

thetrailboss said:
My understanding is that the last plan was to raze MidBurke and replace it with a temporary Sprung Structure. I would not be excited by that. The goal was to pre-sell units for the "hotel/condo complex" that will sit at MidBurke. Of course plans change and I don't have the same sources that I used to.

Regardless, I would hope that if the plan is implemented that they would put in something decent for a midmountain lodge.

I agree, It is really a great location and from what I heard, they have something really special planned for it, skipping the temp Sprung Structure and going with a new permanent Lodge.

stomachdoc · Nov 1, 2010

Masskier said:
I agree, It is really a great location and from what I heard, they have something really special planned for it, skipping the temp Sprung Structure and going with a new permanent Lodge.

Now that Ginn is out of the picture, who owns Burke now? Where is the money for these planned capital projects coming from?

thetrailboss · Nov 1, 2010

stomachdoc said:
Now that Ginn is out of the picture, who owns Burke now? Where is the money for these planned capital projects coming from?

The investors who were behind Ginn on this project still own it. Ginn was a minority owner and he was shown the door. The investors brought Crave in to run the place.

Now, if Crave has reviewed the plans and has decided that the Willoughby Quad has to be replaced before trying to market the mountain for condos, then I applaud them because Ginn was not adopting this route (or could not because of the economy). Having a Burke with a HS lift to the summit will make it marketable rather than trying to presell the mountain as it is with the "promise" that such improvements will come. People have heard lots of promises that have not come true.

As to where the money will come from, my guess is that it will either be the next "phase" of development funded by the investors, or Burke has been able to find some EB-5 Investors (like Jay). I say the latter because reliable sources say that Burke's Development VP was on a trade mission with Gov. Douglas last year where EB-5 investors were sought for many projects in Vermont.

So to recap if Burke was to rebuild MidBurke and install a new HS lift next year I think we would see some good feedback and some good market response.

EPB · Nov 1, 2010

thetrailboss said:
The investors who were behind Ginn on this project still own it. Ginn was a minority owner and he was shown the door. The investors brought Crave into run the place.

Now, if Crave has reviewed the plans and has decided that the Willoughby Quad has to be replaced before trying to market the mountain for condos, then I applaud them because Ginn was not adopting this route (or could not because of the economy). Having a Burke with a HS lift to the summit will make it marketable rather than trying to presell the mountain as it is with the "promise" that such improvements will come. People have heard lots of promises that have not come true.

As to where the money will come from, my guess is that it will either be the next "phase" of development funded by the investors, or Burke has been able to find some EB-5 Investors (like Jay). I say the latter because reliable sources say that Burke's Development VP was on a trade mission with Gov. Douglas last year where EB-5 investors were sought for many projects in Vermont.

So to recap if Burke was to rebuild MidBurke and install a new HS lift next year I think we would see some good feedback and some good market response.

Absolutely. Not that this is a perfect example, but Haystack owners were promised a chondola that never came to be in the last five years.

Masskier · Nov 1, 2010

stomachdoc said:
Now that Ginn is out of the picture, who owns Burke now? Where is the money for these planned capital projects coming from?

Burke is owned by Lubert Adler, a private equity firm out of the Philadelphia area.

Masskier · Nov 1, 2010

thetrailboss said:
The investors who were behind Ginn on this project still own it. Ginn was a minority owner and he was shown the door. The investors brought Crave in to run the place.

Now, if Crave has reviewed the plans and has decided that the Willoughby Quad has to be replaced before trying to market the mountain for condos, then I applaud them because Ginn was not adopting this route (or could not because of the economy). Having a Burke with a HS lift to the summit will make it marketable rather than trying to presell the mountain as it is with the "promise" that such improvements will come. People have heard lots of promises that have not come true.

As to where the money will come from, my guess is that it will either be the next "phase" of development funded by the investors, or Burke has been able to find some EB-5 Investors (like Jay). I say the latter because reliable sources say that Burke's Development VP was on a trade mission with Gov. Douglas last year where EB-5 investors were sought for many projects in Vermont.

So to recap if Burke was to rebuild MidBurke and install a new HS lift next year I think we would see some good feedback and some good market response.

They did explore the EB-5 option, However all of the planned improvements will most likely be funded by the Owner. Burke is really in a great position to be able to fund their improvements with cash rather than debt.

Rumor: Burke Mountain to announce new High Speed Quad to the top?

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