3 1/2 days

highpeaksdrifter · Jun 16, 2006

ctenidae said:
Little known fact regarding class size-
"Normal" class size is considered to be 30, right? Do you know why that number was set? You'd expect it to be because some studies were done, and 30 is the maximum number a single teacher can control and teach effectively. You'd expect there to be some good, scientific, educational reason for it.

You'd be wrong.

Class size is 30 because that's the biggest room that could be economically built at the time (early 1900's) without any pillars obstructing the room. 30 has nothing to do with education, and everything to do with construction and engineering. Makes you feel good about the ability of the education system to adapt itself, doesn't it?

That is nuts. I think giving students 10 weeks off in the summer is nuts too. There is lots of discussion on how American students are falling behind students in other developed countries. One reason I think is we only require our kids to attend school 180 days a year. Not too many of them have to work on the family farm any more.

Marc · Jun 16, 2006

highpeaksdrifter said:
That is nuts. I think giving students 10 weeks off in the summer is nuts too. There is lots of discussion on how American students are falling behind students in other developed countries. One reason I think is we only require our kids to attend school 180 days a year. Not too many of them have to work on the family farm any more.

Actually, when it was common for kids to help out on the family farm, schools had breaks during the spring and fall (planting and harvest) and went to school during the summer.

After that era passed, school vacation was changed to summer.

JimG. · Jun 16, 2006

Our school budget for the Arlington school district failed for the first time in decades. So the district resubmitted it for $1 million less along with threats of cuts in music, art, and athletics.

I voted yes the first time, but my guess is that it's going to fail again. We're really at a social crossroads in our society. The middle class isn't responding to the threats of cuts in school programs anymore. Not when 80% of the budget goes to salaries and administrative expenses.

Nobody wants less pay. I especially don't want to see teachers have to accept pay cuts...they're woefully underpaid as it is. But something has to give. The middle class isn't getting any big pay raises, in fact they're being forced to take pay cuts in many cases. I know my raises don't cover increases in costs of living. We struggle more and more to make ends meet.

You simply can't ring blood from a stone.

highpeaksdrifter · Jun 16, 2006

JimG. said:
Our school budget for the Arlington school district failed for the first time in decades. So the district resubmitted it for $1 million less along with threats of cuts in music, art, and athletics.

I voted yes the first time, but my guess is that it's going to fail again. We're really at a social crossroads in our society. The middle class isn't responding to the threats of cuts in school programs anymore. Not when 80% of the budget goes to salaries and administrative expenses.

Nobody wants less pay. I especially don't want to see teachers have to accept pay cuts...they're woefully underpaid as it is. But something has to give. The middle class isn't getting any big pay raises, in fact they're being forced to take pay cuts in many cases. I know my raises don't cover increases in costs of living. We struggle more and more to make ends meet.

You simply can't ring blood from a stone.

I agree with everything you said, but what would you change? IMO the political will doesn't exist at either the local or state levels for any major changes, so we'll have duct tape soluations for many years to come.

JimG. · Jun 16, 2006

highpeaksdrifter said:
I agree with everything you said, but what would you change? IMO the political will doesn't exist at either the local or state levels for any major changes, so we'll have duct tape soluations for many years to come.

I wish I could tell you the solution; this common problem bothers me alot. The only solution is sacrifice across the board, but it seems that there isn't alot of incentive for anyone to make any; I truly understand why the teachers don't want to. Parents want tons of school programs but don't want to pay more for them; that's pretty unrealistic. So it seems the kids are the ones who will suffer.

My son Peter came to me yesterday with his flute and told me that I should probably bring it back to the music store we rented it from. So I asked him why, did he lose interest in music? He told me no, he likes playing but that the school budget didn't pass and the school supervisor told the students that the music department would be eliminated if it didn't pass the second vote. Peter said he told them to go home and tell their parents to vote yes.

I think it sucks that the kids are used that way. But it bothered me alot more that Peter thinks he won't get to play flute next year. So I told him if that happens I'll pay for private music lessons even though I can't afford it.

Just like the old Fram oil filter commercial: "You can pay me now or you can pay me later".

ctenidae · Jun 16, 2006

I think it sucks that the kids are used that way. But it bothered me alot more that Peter thinks he won't get to play flute next year. So I told him if that happens I'll pay for private music lessons even though I can't afford it.

Sad-eyed kids are an awesome political tool, especially if they're your own. Glad to see the school system making it real. Good on you, too, Jim, for offering the lessons. Too bad you may have to make good on it.

Very interesting parts in "The World is Flat" about teh quiet crisis in education, that won't be quiet for long. We're just about out of scientists and engineers. That's not a good thing.

JimG. · Jun 16, 2006

ctenidae said:
Sad-eyed kids are an awesome political tool, especially if they're your own. Glad to see the school system making it real. Good on you, too, Jim, for offering the lessons. Too bad you may have to make good on it.

Kids shouldn't be used that way. And part of "making it real" is explaining the issues that are part of the problem...that part was conveniently left out, so it seems like all the parents are just being cheap. That's not real.

But then again, I didn't offer the lessons to Peter to keep him from thinking I'm cheap. That would be stupid, and I've mentioned in other threads that I try to teach my kids financial responsibility, things like "if you can't afford it, don't buy it".

I'll figure out a way to afford the music lessons...and my son David's braces...and the $2000 for David to play on his new premier league soccer team...and doubling up on pre-school days in the Fall for my youngest James...and...

Ouch!

Marc · Jun 16, 2006

ctenidae said:
I think it sucks that the kids are used that way. But it bothered me alot more that Peter thinks he won't get to play flute next year. So I told him if that happens I'll pay for private music lessons even though I can't afford it.

Sad-eyed kids are an awesome political tool, especially if they're your own. Glad to see the school system making it real. Good on you, too, Jim, for offering the lessons. Too bad you may have to make good on it.

Very interesting parts in "The World is Flat" about teh quiet crisis in education, that won't be quiet for long. We're just about out of scientists and engineers. That's not a good thing.

Not in New England we aren't. I just went through a job search for an engineering position a year ago, and I can tell you from first hand experience, it was plenty competitive.

highpeaksdrifter · Jun 16, 2006

JimG. said:
Kids shouldn't be used that way. And part of "making it real" is explaining the issues that are part of the problem...that part was conveniently left out, so it seems like all the parents are just being cheap. That's not real.

But then again, I didn't offer the lessons to Peter to keep him from thinking I'm cheap. That would be stupid, and I've mentioned in other threads that I try to teach my kids financial responsibility, things like "if you can't afford it, don't buy it".

I'll figure out a way to afford the music lessons...and my son David's braces...and the $2000 for David to play on his new premier league soccer team...and doubling up on pre-school days in the Fall for my youngest James...and...

Ouch!

WOW, you might have to give up skiing. Ahhhhhh........anything but that.:wink:

JimG. · Jun 16, 2006

highpeaksdrifter said:
WOW, you might have to give up skiing.

Perish the thought!

I assure all of you that is just not an option.

teachski · Jun 16, 2006

smitty77 said:
At least you don't teach in Athol. The town got a special bond through the state to balance this year's budget (and a financial watchdog to go with it) and just passed it's first override ever just to balance next years budget. They state says if they reduce services any more (ie cut even one teaching position) the regional school district will be taken over by the state.

At least Barre has a lame duck for a superintendent and not a jack@$$.
And yes, we will be home schooling.

BTW, congrats on making it through another year. Enjoy the summer.
Smitty

While I live in Barre, I do not teach in Barre! Barre has a great school system!

Go west and you will find my school, but I do not want to mention the name of it for reasons I would hope you will understand. My school faces many of the challenges Athol is currently facing...a not so great NEASC report and a Tier 3 review. There is no town support for the school (except for the sports programs)

I had an interview in another district today...one with a mountain that shares its name. I think it went really well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

skibum1321 · Jun 19, 2006

teachski said:
I had an interview in another district today...one with a mountain that shares its name. I think it went really well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Good luck on your interview. If you don't want to say where the interview is then I understand but my guess would be Bolton.

highpeaksdrifter · Jun 19, 2006

skibum1321 said:
Good luck on your interview. If you don't want to say where the interview is then I understand but my guess would be Bolton.

Gotta be Mount Greylock.

SnowRider · Jun 19, 2006

I AM DONE!:-D SUMMER 06!8) CAN'T WAIT!

SnowRider

Zand · Jun 19, 2006

Ok, it's summer, but I want winter. Why can't we get 2 1/2 months off in the winter?

BeanoNYC · Jun 19, 2006

Zand said:
Ok, it's summer, but I want winter. Why can't we get 2 1/2 months off in the winter?

Just a month would be great. I would give up July to have Feb or March off.

skibum1321 · Jun 19, 2006

BeanoNYC said:
Just a month would be great. I would give up July to have Feb or March off.

Beggars can't be choosers

.

SnowRider · Jun 19, 2006

Ok, it's summer, but I want winter. Why can't we get 2 1/2 months off in the winter?

We should have one month in the winter and one in the summer.

SnowRider

3 1/2 days

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