Hey Camp ... Subi Impreza 2012

AdironRider said:

I get exactly in the middle of my city and highway ratings in my Nissan Frontier in the winter time here in Wyoming when it averages 5 degrees for our average low temps. I get right at 18 with daily use of 4x4. Summer time it ups to 22-24 which is substantially over the ratings of 15/19 respectively. These are my combined figures averaged out over 40+k miles that Ive driven the truck so far. Lifetime average is 21.1, and keep in mind the average low even in July in August out here is barely above 40 degrees, so Im pretty much commuting to work every day in the sumemr time in your average temps for the entire winter. Worse in the winter. Higher elevation though so the wind resistance is less.

I will admit the natural driving tendencies of most of the population out here is to drive the speed limit so that helps, but I wouldnt say that most people are getting below their combined figure even in the winter time, especially back east where most driving to ski areas is highway or county highway (45-55mph speed limits).

If anything its that damn ethanol gas. My mpg drops by at least 1 mpg, more like 2 or 3 when I fill up with that crap. Luckily the local gas station is still one of the few holdouts nationwide that doesnt put any ethanol in their fuel. So that helps my milage as well.

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The rest of us have to burn that crap ethanol fuel all the time. As you say, it causes a substantial MPG hit and is also part of the revised EPA numbers.

You also don't drive in traffic. I'll bet many of the cubicle dwellers here face a lot of stop & go.

I live in Killington in the winter. The average temps in the winter aren't anything like 40F.


As they say, YMMV

What's the difference between summer and winter gas? I'm getting a few MPG better right now than I usually do in the winter...don't remember the reasons why.

Geoff said:

The rest of us have to burn that crap ethanol fuel all the time. As you say, it causes a substantial MPG hit and is also part of the revised EPA numbers.

You also don't drive in traffic. I'll bet many of the cubicle dwellers here face a lot of stop & go.

I live in Killington in the winter. The average temps in the winter aren't anything like 40F.


As they say, YMMV

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Ask anyone who has driven through Jackson WY and they will tell you I deal with plenty of stop and go, just as much if not more so than when I lived back east. 4 million people drive through here yearly as tourists. My town has a population of 12-14k year round residents and has 1 multi lane road going through the county. Stop and Go is a nightmare out here. It takes me 30 minutes to drive 8 miles into town.

As for temps, sure Killington proper comes close, but the average Killington skier isnt starting and stopping their vehicles from Killington most of the time (you are definitely above average with a ski house, and a Porsche and a Merc as your daily rides, so hold the hogwash for me). Heres the avg temps for JAckson, Killington, and lets use my old hometown of Exeter (inland suburban Northeast, typical NE skier abode town) as another variable. See where the average temps lie and where you do most of your driving.

Killington - http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/05751

Jackson - http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/vacationclimatology/monthly/USWY0088

Exeter - http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/03833

Needless to say, my drive is in substantially lower temps, even compared to Killington, let along the typical place the average NE skier lives consistently year round.

So yeah Geoff, I think my point stands. I average 2mpg over the highway rating (under the new rules) and have never gotten below 18 combined, in much colder temps, in plenty of stop and go. Whats YMMV mean again?

hammer said:

What's the difference between summer and winter gas? I'm getting a few MPG better right now than I usually do in the winter...don't remember the reasons why.

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Air density and the impact of aerodynamic drag is the main reason your mileage goes to hell in the winter. The warmer it is and the more humid it is, the less dense the air. The change in aerodynamic drag is about 2% for every 10 degrees F.

Summer fuel has most of the butane removed so doesn't vaporize as well as winter fuel. The idea is to prevent gasoline from evaporating out of your tank on a hot summer day. The difference in energy in the fuel is only about 2%.

The bigger deal in engine efficiency is that at cold temperatures and a cold engine, the fuel doesn't vaporize as well so it burns less efficiently in the engine. If you do a lot of short drives where the car doesn't fully warm up, your MPG will get much worse in the winter. On long drives where the engine is warmed up, you won't see it as much.

AdironRider said:

...the average Killington skier isnt starting and stopping their vehicles from Killington most of the time (you are definitely above average with a ski house, and a Porsche and a Merc as your daily rides, so hold the hogwash for me).

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Those are my rides. I don't have a ski house

Woops my bad. Disregard.

AdironRider said:

Woops my bad. Disregard.

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I have a Merc but that would be a "Mercury" version of an Exploder. I also have a back Porsche built out of pressure treated pine.

Geoff said:

I have a Merc but that would be a "Mercury" version of an Exploder. I also have a back Porsche built out of pressure treated pine.

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I laughed. Took me a second to get "back Porsche."

Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

Geoff said:

Air density and the impact of aerodynamic drag is the main reason your mileage goes to hell in the winter. The warmer it is and the more humid it is, the less dense the air. The change in aerodynamic drag is about 2% for every 10 degrees F.

Summer fuel has most of the butane removed so doesn't vaporize as well as winter fuel. The idea is to prevent gasoline from evaporating out of your tank on a hot summer day. The difference in energy in the fuel is only about 2%.

The bigger deal in engine efficiency is that at cold temperatures and a cold engine, the fuel doesn't vaporize as well so it burns less efficiently in the engine. If you do a lot of short drives where the car doesn't fully warm up, your MPG will get much worse in the winter. On long drives where the engine is warmed up, you won't see it as much.

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Thanks for the info...forgot about the impact of air density.

If I remember my physics correctly the amount of drag is proportional to the square of the velocity, so I'd think that keeping the speed down also has a lot to do with mileage. Good thing I don't care too much about MPGs...;-)

hammer said:

Thanks for the info...forgot about the impact of air density.

If I remember my physics correctly the amount of drag is proportional to the square of the velocity, so I'd think that keeping the speed down also has a lot to do with mileage. Good thing I don't care too much about MPGs...;-)

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D=Cd*A*1/2*rho*V^2, rho=P/(Rbar*T)

Offsetting the drag is engine efficiency. The engine is more efficient at moderate-high power outputs and decent speeds, so there's a sweet spot where drag isn't huge but the engine has become decently efficient. Usually around 60mph. Either side of that speed for a bit won't be that bad, but once you start hitting 80 it's gonna get ugly. Obviously varies from car to car.

Oops: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111201/CARNEWS/111209995

wa-loaf said:

Oops: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111201/CARNEWS/111209995

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Word on the Subaru forums is Subaru switched suppliers for the Brake Master Cylinder after the Japan earthquake/flood.

wa-loaf said:

Oops: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111201/CARNEWS/111209995

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My biggest complaint on my 1998 Subaru was the brake pedal travel. Thought they would have fixed that by now.

I'm driving a '11 Legacy.. Brake pedal travel is not an issue, it actually surprised me recently how responsive it is after driving some other cars and coming back to it. Also fixed is the low MPG and road/engine noise. Performance is only mediocre, but the pleasant drive/ride makes up for it.

My 09 Wranglers pedal could be pushed to the floor pretty easily, especially noticed it when at a light. When I brought it in to the dealer that said it was normal and showed me a couple brand new Wranglers on the lot and they all did it. I found it odd, almost felt like air in the lines to me.