Cannon Mountain...thoughts

deadheadskier said:

It is not uncommon for message forums to close topics when they reach a point where the only thing that the topic continues to generate are flame wars. I've been guilty of it in this thread. Threecy has and so have you.

Click to expand...

threecy said:

Ah, so responding to your flames means I'm guilty of participating in a flame war. Got it.

If closing this thread helps you with self control, go for it.

Click to expand...

deadheadskier said:

:lol:

who has a self control issue?

That jab certainly came without instigation on my part.

Click to expand...

Let's see, you said I was guilty of flame wars. You'll note that any 'flames' posted by me in your direction are direct responses to you calling me out. It's actually quite humourous to me at this point that I'm even bothering to respond to your posts.

Why dont you go for a hike in Ossipee. Oh wait, you already screwed yourself there, so lets work on doing the exact same thing at Cannon.

Pretty soon you'll just have to move. Im sure the state wont miss you.

AdironRider said:

Why dont you go for a hike in Ossipee. Oh wait, you already screwed yourself there, so lets work on doing the exact same thing at Cannon.

Click to expand...

How did I 'screw' myself there? Last I checked, with the exception of a field that's been posted in the Larcoms, every hiking trail I've hiked in the Ossipees is open.

threecy said:

The last time Cannon had average snowfall was prior to the new management taking over (the last 4 years have been significantly above average snowfall-wise per their metrics).

No significant sum has been invested in the snowmaking system (it is being requested from taxpayers in the next half decade). If 2011-2012 ends up being bad weatherwise, I suspect conditions will be similar to what was experienced in the last set of average winters.

Click to expand...

Where can I find the snowfall record and average number? The chances of having above average snowfall four years in a row are 1/16, which would begin to suggest that your estimate of average snowfall is wrong.

Cannonball said:

This thread has turned into a complete farce. Can we all agree to just end it?

Click to expand...

Please don't end this thread until at least October. What are we supposed to do between now and then?

thetrailboss said:

I don't really see any need to close the thread either.

Click to expand...

Ditto.

Sent from my Thunderbolt via Tapatalk

threecy said:

No, you're too classy for that.

Click to expand...

Direct flame at me. Not a 'return serve'. I was critical of your opinions on Mitt/Cran and Crocth/Sunapee. I didn't attack you personally at all to bring on that response.

threecy said:

Let's see, you said I was guilty of flame wars. You'll note that any 'flames' posted by me in your direction are direct responses to you calling me out. It's actually quite humourous to me at this point that I'm even bothering to respond to your posts.

Click to expand...

see above.

MadPadraic said:

Where can I find the snowfall record and average number? The chances of having above average snowfall four years in a row are 1/16, which would begin to suggest that your estimate of average snowfall is wrong.

Click to expand...

I think threecy may be correct on this one, well sort of. Not sure if i would use significantly in all those years, but the past two years have been I believe either at or above 200 inches, which is 40 inches above their average. And these are not Threecy's numbers to fudge, these were posted by Cannon.

Cannon itself says annual average is 160 inches.

http://www.cannonmt.com/cannon_info.html

They also were the only ones getting decent snowfall early season last year in NH, The snow definitely had a positive effect on there profit but I don't think it is as much as Threecy is making it out to be. Well have to wait and see how Cannon does in a bad snow year with all the changes made in management. I think they'll do significantly better than the last string of snowless years.

UVSHTSTRM said:

I think threecy may be correct on this one, well sort of. Not sure if i would use significantly in all those years, but the past two years have been I believe either at or above 200 inches, which is 40 inches above their average. And these are not Threecy's numbers to fudge, these were posted by Cannon.

Click to expand...

In this case, I don't doubt that he's going on good historical data, but I wonder if what was average in the past is going to be very different from the future.

I also wonder if above/below snow years have a tendency to repeat or revert idea: serial correlation). If so, do other ski regions exhibit this?

Cannonball said:

This thread has turned into a complete farce. Can we all agree to just end it?

Click to expand...

Sorry Cannonball. The other thread is now the farce. This one's title is not a rhetorical wedge like that one, with it's follow up pictures being "released" in soap opera format. I'll continue to post over here.

Here are the points I am willing to concede to threecy, in order of their relative importance:

1 - They should clean up that debris and build some water bars in problem areas (with my tax dollars!! Me!Me!)

2 - They should offer more discounts to residents of NH. But you know who might not be to keen on that idea? Private ski area operators of NH.

3 - They should allow hiking on ski trails unless there is a specific, clear and present danger from the ski area operation.

4 - People can sometimes act like dicks toward you here on Alpine Zone, but I'm only a little sympathetic. I believe it was that great philosopher Timothy Leary who said:"If you want to change the way people respond to you, change the way you respond to people."


Threecy's idea that many of the constituents of our elected reps view skiing as a sport of the wealthy elite is probably true. But which is honestly a better vehicle to provide a more egalitarian ski experience, private industry or the state? By leasing the area to a private operator you are essentially writing off big mountain skiing as a potential recreational activity for the budget conscious ski family, handing them over to the "see what the market will bear" mind set.

Cannon and the state of NH could definitely do a better job of promoting downhill skiing as a fun, healthy and affordable way to enjoy the cold, short days of winter.

AWESOME post Witch :beer:

couldn't have said it better

witch hobble said:

2 - They should offer more discounts to residents of NH. But you know who might not be to keen on that idea? Private ski area operators of NH.

Click to expand...

I feel like they already offer a lot. They are 12% cheaper than Loon, Sunapee, or Bretton woods on weekends, and effectively offer three midweek half price days a week. How much cheaper do they need to go? This also ignores the free bunny slope lift and the heavily discounted beginner area, which compares very well to beginner areas at more commercial mountains. They also have a midweek special for old New Hampshire types that might go too far....FREE!

MadPadraic said:

I feel like they already offer a lot. They are 12% cheaper than Loon, Sunapee, or Bretton woods on weekends, and effectively offer three midweek half price days a week. How much cheaper do they need to go? This also ignores the free bunny slope lift and the heavily discounted beginner area, which compares very well to beginner areas at more commercial mountains. They also have a midweek special for old New Hampshire types that might go too far....FREE!

Click to expand...

NH residents specifically.. we're paying the same as Mass folks for day tickets most of the time

the season's pass deals are a significant discount for residents though

bobbutts said:

NH residents specifically.. we're paying the same as Mass folks for day tickets most of the time

Click to expand...

The only time in which NH adult residents can get a day ticket discount is when the tram is not running.

threecy said:

The only time in which NH adult residents can get a day ticket discount is when the tram is not running.

Click to expand...

Since you are a former ski area employee and very familiar with the business as an insider... does that not make sense to not discount your product on the busiest days of the week? Is this not fairly standard business practice? And wouldn't (as DHS noted) discounting weekends hurt private for profit businesses (in reference to your issue with the state hurting private businesses by competing against them)? Wouldn't a leased Cannon be even less likely to offer weekend discounts?

riverc0il said:

Since you are a former ski area employee and very familiar with the business as an insider... does that not make sense to not discount your product on the busiest days of the week? Is this not fairly standard business practice? And wouldn't (as DHS noted) discounting weekends hurt private for profit businesses (in reference to your issue with the state hurting private businesses by competing against them)? Wouldn't a leased Cannon be even less likely to offer weekend discounts?

Click to expand...

In other words, there is no financial benefit for the vast majority of the current owners of Cannon Mountain who have to continue to sink millions in tax dollars into the place.

threecy said:

In other words, there is no financial benefit for the vast majority of the current owners of Cannon Mountain who have to continue to sink millions in tax dollars into the place.

Click to expand...

sweeping generalization

give me a figure as to how many people have days off on the weekends vs weekdays.

Without data, stating 'vast majority' is hyperbole.

Of course not just the vast majority, but ALL residents of NH can appreciate a major cost savings in a Season Pass if they choose to do so. Is that available to them at Sunapee? NO.

Oh right, they'll just write that discount into the least. BS. There's no way pro-lease supporters like yourself have any concern at all with providing value to NH resident skiers and riders. Your only concern is generating profits from land owned by the people of NH.

deadheadskier said:

Without data, stating 'vast majority' is hyperbole.

Click to expand...

Even if the 130,000 skier visits were 100% state residents who only skied one day a year, that would mean 90% of the state doesn't ski there.