Seeking Voice of Experience re: Improvement vs. Cost

Sum1 said:

Skis -- Seems like the stiffer skis built for higher speed have waist sizes in the 60’s mm range. If I buy skis of this waist size will I be able to get through late season wet heavy knee-bashing mounds of New England Oatmeal and Mashed Potatos? Or, will I need a 70’s mm waist to handle this?

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There's plenty of great options out there. My experience is that mid-fat's can be just as "stiff" as the narrow frontside carvers. That being said, I've found that the wider the ski is, the better it blast through the spring slop.

Sum1 said:

Do I need to focus solely on race/carve skis in order to have longitudinal/torsional stiffness and proper edge-hold at higher speeds, or are there also Frontside and All-Mountain skis that are appropriate for higher speeds?

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I have no idea what "longitudinal/torsional stiffness" is, and if I did, I'd be pretty hard pressed to be thinking about it while on a run. You could have the stiffest race ski out there, and with a poor tune, it's gonna have crappy edge-hold at higher speeds. You don't need a race ski for daily recreational skiing.

Sum1 said:

For example, there’s no way I can handle true GS skis with turn radius of 25-40 meters, but even the GS cheaters look very expensive -- $1,200 and most without binding. By contrast, how about the Head iSuperShape Speed SW SP 13 (118-68-100) at about half the price. It seems made for higher speed; will it also handle the mashed potatos?

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What can I say, it's an expensive hobby, but there are deals out there. Since you're new to the sport, and want to advance, you might want to look around for used ski deals. Look for something 2-5 years old...no more then 10. Get yourself an solid intermediate ski now, and in a year or two when you progress, add an advanced ski, and in two more years, pick up an expert ski or dedicated powder ski.

Sum1 said:

Boots -- so complicated. Do you have to jump up to Race boot level ($600-$900) to be assured of good stiffness, less ramp angle, and proper lateral support at higher speeds? Or, are there non-race boots that achieve almost the same support for about $350?

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You don't need a race boot. Do not have any pre-concieved notions about brand/size/color/style when going for a boot fitting. A great fitting boot is one where you can ski/walk/hike/climb/parking lot pimp/drink at the bar/drive in.

deadheadskier said:

One suggestion on demos.
will allow you to deduct the accumulated amount of money spent on demos from a new ski purchase.

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Nice, I've heard of the demo. deduction, but not the Accumulated demo. deduct....i mean, that's phenomenal. So, you ski on the latest gear for 10 weekends and at the end have approx. $700 (guessing $70 for 2 wkend days) off any 1 of the 10 pair you tried.

Sum1 said:

Nice, I've heard of the demo. deduction, but not the Accumulated demo. deduct....i mean, that's phenomenal. So, you ski on the latest gear for 10 weekends and at the end have approx. $700 (guessing $70 for 2 wkend days) off any 1 of the 10 pair you tried.

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you know, I don't know if he has a limit. My guess is though that very few people are going to commit $700 to demoing before purchasing, so he probably hasn't had to deal with that scenario.

RootDKJ said:

You don't need a race boot. Do not have any pre-concieved notions about brand/size/color/style when going for a boot fitting. A great fitting boot is one where you can ski/walk/hike/climb/parking lot pimp/drink at the bar/drive in.

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Root,

Thanks for your experience too; it is very much appreciated.

riverc0il said:

. Take lessons, watch others, and ski.

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I'll add...
Find a group of people to regularly ski with who are better skiers then you and watch their movements as you struggle to keep up with them.

When I first started skiing with the PASR crew, I could barely keep up with them. But after a few seasons of skiing with them and watching how they ski, I have no problems keeping up today and I've advanced a lot as a skier. A lot of those guys race, and have given me with technique suggestions that really helped. Forums are great for meetups.

RootDKJ said:

I'll add...
Find a group of people to regularly ski with who are better skiers then you and watch their movements as you struggle to keep up with them.

When I first started skiing with the PASR crew, I could barely keep up with them. But after a few seasons of skiing with them and watching how they ski, I have no problems keeping up today and I've advanced a lot as a skier. A lot of those guys race, and have given me with technique suggestions that really helped. Forums are great for meetups.

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+1

Joining the AZ Pats Peak race team this past season was a real learning experience for me...lots of fun as well.

Warning: long meandering post.

First of, welcome to the boards! There's a lot of wisdom on AZ and a lot of stoke to keep those ski fires burning. If you can make it through the shenanigans around here in the summer and make it to when people chomp at the bit in the fall, you'll be fine. I made some good friends among the AZers and I hope you do too.

I'm in my forties and I was born to skiing on Feb. 5, 2005. Because I never grew up around snow and couldn't afford it when I was younger, I had a late start in the ski life. I started out barely knowing how to stand on the snow to doing backcountry tours and seeking glades in the resorts now. Skiing is all about progression and conquering your fears one step at a time.

When I made up my mind that I wanted to get good at this sport, I made up for lost time by getting out on the hill as much as I could. Every weekend, I took a bus to a ski area and rented gear and worked on technique. I only took three ski lessons. I learn best through books and executed the drills while on the hill. We all learn differently. But, if you learn best through books, then I would recommend the following:

- The All Moutain Skier by Mark Elling (good for drills and working on technique)
- Breakthrough on the New Skis by Lito Tejada Flores (good practical on the snow applications)
- Ski the Whole Mountain by the Deslauriers brothers (when you are putting it all together)

I have the Harb books but they didn't do it for me. Of course, to each his own. Then again, if books aren't your bag, then I suggest investing in skiing lessons. Actually, even if books are your game, there is no substitute for a good lesson.

As for gear, I'll echo everyone else and say that it starts with boots. Get a good pair that fits and work with a good bootfitter. You only have one chance to get it right. I would also add that you should also invest in a good pair of footbeds. They make a world of difference. My bootfitter is in Concord, NH. He used to be the AZ bootfitter, Jeff Bokum. I can give you his contact details if you want. The great thing about shopping in the summer is that you get the best prices. The downside is that you have limited choices and sizing.

Regarding skis, this should be second priority to boots. I echo everyone's point about demoing skis this season. Find a pair you like for your style of skiing and where you ski. When you have zeroed in on the pair you want, start bargain hunting. Based on what you've told us, I think an all-mountain mid-fat is the ski you're looking for. When I started, a 74 waist was consdered mid-fat. Seven years later, mid-fats are between 80 and 90 underfoot.

Trust technology. Perhaps because I got into the sport late, I am more open to new technologies than those who have been in it all their lives and, because I need to shorten the learning curve, I tend to rely on technology to give me an assist (think of golfers reaching for the titanium driver with the biggest head). That said, if you can demo a ski with some early rise in the tip (that is, tip rocker), do it. Rockered skis used to be just a powder/West Coast thing. However, small amounts of rocker with traditional camber underfoot might help you along. I ski on a fat rockered ski in the East and it has become my go-to ski. Of course, this is all subjective and rocker may not be for you. Let your body tell you what gear is best for you.

Good luck on your skiing journey. May you be rewarded as much as I have. May your turns be many and powder-filled.

RootDKJ said:

Find a group of people to regularly ski with who are better skiers then you and watch their movements as you struggle to keep up with them.

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:beer:
i think this pretty much applies to everything in life. find someone better and try to keep up.

snowmonster said:

Warning: long meandering post.

First of, welcome to the boards!
Skiing is all about progression and conquering your fears one step at a time.
Let your body tell you what gear is best for you.
Good luck on your skiing journey. May you be rewarded as much as I have. May your turns be many and powder-filled.

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Mr. Snow, I thank you very much for your thoughtful post.

There is a lot of great gear buying info in this thread. Use it.

But....none of it is actually critical to your goal. People have been skiing Superstar (and MUCH harder terrain) 'in balance and under control' for decades decades before any of the described gear was even invented. Just a few years ago it would be incomprehensible to even ask this question.......

Sum1 said:

Skis -- Seems like the stiffer skis built for higher speed have waist sizes in the 60’s mm range. If I buy skis of this waist size will I be able to get through late season wet heavy knee-bashing mounds of New England Oatmeal and Mashed Potatos? Or, will I need a 70’s mm waist to handle this?

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Work on skills. Have fun. Use the best gear you can afford.

Cannonball said:

....none of it is actually critical to your goal. People have been skiing Superstar (and MUCH harder terrain) 'in balance and under control' for decades decades before any of the described gear was even invented.

Work on skills. Have fun. Use the best gear you can afford.

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Thanks Cannonball.
The macro perspective cannot be stressed enough to a beginner such as myself; with all the aero-space tech., and marketing, and hundreds of models to choose from.

Well I'll add something as long as you're in that zone of amped beyond belief interest.
Try to get started with some simple exercises....toning up your lower body and work on your balance.
Then let a bootfitter with a knowledge of alignment go to worik. Getting footbeds really helps to stabilize ones' foot in the boot = helps to achieve a great fit. Footbeds will help with your balance as well as getting a great fitting boot...and that'll help your skiing = staying in balance.
$.01

*Experienced at trying to improve....

bigbog said:

Try to get started with some simple exercises....toning up your lower body and work on your balance.

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Hi BigBog,

You're reading my mind.....I'm the type who doesn't have any bad habits; but, doesn't have any particularly good ones, either.
This is about to change --- re: the good habits.
I appreciate the advice about the footbeds too.

Sidebar from Cannonball's...
IF you do have some pronation in action...leg exercise/toning could be even more valuable(just a guess)...cuz as we improve our muscular balance around the skeleton, from hips on down to ankles = there seems to be less of an extreme balancing act for our tendons in our feet.
Nothing scientific in that, but it does make a difference in shopping for the correct boot shellsize..