riverc0il
New member
I figured I should stop hijacking the Impreza 2012 thread and get my own.
It is difficult finding an ideal vehicle to meet all aspects of life including skiing. I suspect I am not alone in that boat. The ideal ski vehicle has yet to be designed. Much like buying a pair of skis, there is compromise everywhere and the one vehicle quiver is as much a myth as the one ski quiver. For those interested, here are my findings.
First, as with a proper ski review, you must know my biases. My absolute requirements for a new vehicle include automatic transmission, high fuel economy (especially highway), good space utility (skiing, camping, dog, etc), MP3/sD connectivity, bluetooth, steering wheel controls, and sunroof. Those are not many requirements but setting a minimum of 35 MPG highway eliminates a lot of vehicles.
My preferences but not requirements included hatchback/wagon, fold completely flat seats, 40+ MPG highway, excellent menu system for audio, and manual control with the automatic (paddle shifters would be ideal).
Based on this criteria, I narrowed things down to the Lexus CT 200h, Audi A3, Volkswagen JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, Subaru Impreza 2012, Hyundai Elantra, and 2012 Kia Rio5. Not included as options were the Ford Focus/Fiesta (can't bring myself to even look at Fords, I know they have changed) and the Chevy Cruze (for a lot of reasons). Toyota Matrix would have been included if not for current gen Impreza-esque MPG. Hyundai Accent was missing some required items and perhaps a touch small for my needs. Honda Fit sadly doesn't get great MPG, especially when you add the paddle shifter package.
Impreza at only 36 MPG and not due until very late Fall, maybe Winter, just was not worth waiting for. Still not sold on Kia longevity (though I am impressed with a recent Rio I sat in), and A3 bare bones I could afford but not with the auto, sunroof, and other options. So that leaves the CT 200h, JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, and Elantra.
Lexus CT 200h (CVT) – This seemed like my dream car on paper: 43/40/42 MPG estimates, most drivers reporting higher than EPA in real world, hatchback with fold flat seats, incredibly sporty design, great looks, and upscale interior. It was definitely a stretch price wise in the low thirties. Unfortunately, this car is small. WAY too small.
The hatch is downright tiny. The seats fold completely flat due to the hybrid battery raising the hatch floor. But there is so little clearance between the raised hatch floor and ceiling. And due to the low ceiling, even with the rear seats folded completely flat and the hatch, cargo space was distinctly limited. A retriever would have a hard time standing upright in the hatch with seats folded flat.
I almost didn't even bother with the test drive. Also of note, the rear seats are tiny as well. Fitting the front seat to my 6'1” long legged bulk, not even a child could have fit in the back seat comfortably and a full size adult would have required me to move my seat forward just to get in, let alone comfort. This car might work for a single or a couple with limited cargo needs and city driving intentions. As a multi-sport outdoor person's vehicle, it would absolutely fail.
Online reviews from enthusiasts and manual preferring car snobs have greatly under estimated this car's get up and go. You'd never know this car rated second worst of all 2011 cars in 0-60 performance. I was over 70 MPH on the highway without realizing it and acceleration was much faster and smoother than my current 124hp econobox that gets 8.9 seconds in the 0-60. I didn't notice the difference between the two different motors but I wasn't really paying attention any ways. It didn't stick out, that is for sure.
Driving performance was impressive considering all the poor reviews. It is not a sports car for sure. But for someone in the econobox performance range, it was nice. The CVT was actually quite cool, I didn't mind not feeling the shifts (which surprised me). But I didn't like the steering at low speeds. I could turn the wheel a full quarter turn each way, back and forth, at low speeds and barely had any movement side to side.
Interior was nice but not mind blowing. I certainly expected a little bit more plush for a Lexus (never been in one before, but it wasn't a massive step up unlike there other cars, I would imagine). The audio system sucked (I drove a model without the nav display... it had a two line dot matrix style screen). The controls were well placed in the nice and low laid back center console. But way too many buttons. I actually prefer buttons usually, but this was a big much. Visibility out the rear corners sucked, one of the worst cars I have been in for rear vis (and considering my current coupe, that is notable).
Overall, this car looked killer from the outside and on paper. But from the time I opened the hatch, I just couldn't believe how poorly the interior was designed. This is a very hard car to find. They actually peeled the plastic off the model I drove and I had to drive to a dealership two hours away to find one in stock. My closest dealership had sold their two allocations before the cars even came off the boat. I just don't know who is buying them. Someone that wants high MPG, moderately nice interior, and that has no need of any cargo room. But if I was a city slicker, I'd go with a Prius which might not look as good but gets 10 more MPG. The new Prius v is even bigger with less MPG. Lexus is on to something here but they need to execute better.
Oh, and I felt way out of my class walking into a Lexus dealership. Just felt like I didn't belong there at all. That didn't help.
Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI (DSG) – This was the pleasant surprise of the day. I really liked everything about this car. This car has been on the short list for two years but I really can't stand the VW brand. The driving experience itself was very different and not to my exact preferences, but I got used to it quickly.
The utility of this wagon is excellent. Massive hatch area with fold down flat seats. The cargo area is expansive and actually more than we actually need. It looks bigger outside than it does inside even with the expansive cargo area... an interesting attribute that I can't fully describe. Though looking back over the shoulders for passing did make me realize how big the vehicle is. I don't know why someone would buy a Crossover or SUV when you can get a JSW TDI for similar or less money for the same or even more room.
Controls on the center console are excellent with a limited number of buttons and nobs, very efficient. Feel and touch of materials was fine, definitely not upscale but certainly competitive in class. Panoramic Sunroof is quite cool, you've gotta check one out if you at all enjoy sunroofs in your car. It really makes the car feel quite spacious and open. The closest you'll get to a convertible without actually buying one.
Driving was good but not my preference. It felt a bit 'floaty' I guess. Obviously, those wanting to feel more connection would go with a sportier Golf or GTI options. Nice in the curves, though, despite those feelings. Actually, the curves felt very nice despite the car's bulk, somewhat surprisingly so.
The DSG manual mode was great, better than the Mazda3 and Elantra by far. Not used to having a car not roll forward when removing my foot from the gas. But the TDI and DSG combine for extremely low RPMs so not rolling out for MPG actually isn't an issue it seems.
Mazda3 Hatch 2011 – I drove the Mazda3 2011 to see if the 2012 with high 30s MPG was worth the wait. The cockpit of this car is incredible. I've never sat in any driver seat that felt so comfortable. The center panel controls were perfectly laid out and wonderfully visually. Interior materials are definitely below class average now. But style and visual and "gut feel" for the cockpit was incredible.
I am not a "car guy". My two cars have been Saturns with 120ish HP. I always drive auto. I am a light foot and always go for max MPG but without the excessively crazy hypermiling stuff (for the most part 8) ). Basically, I am not the target market for a Mazda. But I do really enjoy pushing a car through a turn. It is the one time when I do mash the gas pedal, grip the wheel with two hands, and grin a little bit. It is the only “car guy” type behavior I exhibit in my driving. And the Mazda3 would have had me more than grinning had the sales rep not been driving with us. This car definitely is the best performance type car in its class. Turns and acceleration on the backroads were just great.
That said, I didn't care for the car on the highway. Perhaps my light foot, gradual acceleration style of driving just doesn't mesh with the Mazda3. The gear ratios wanted to push for a lower gear while I wanted an up shift for lower RPM for fuel efficiency. I think it is more personal driving style than anything against the Mazda3. But by my driving style, I didn't like the way this car got up to speed on the highway and would rate it lowest of the four cars I drove for highway. But that says more about me than the car.
The hatch was nice and respectable. While backseats do not fold completely flat, they are better than most. Space was good for a hatch though of course small compared to the Sportwagen. It was enough space for my needs though just lacking slightly for a week long camping trip for two with the dog. Roof box always an option but the Sportwagen had the canine advantage.
Hyundai Elantra Premium – This was the safe and cheap option. Nice car. Rather vanilla. Didn't like the bling on the massive and chunky center console which, along with the dash, was too high (and I am 6'1”!). Lots of space. Massive amount of trunk and passenger room for a so called “compact” car. No spare tire, though, which I don't appreciate given where I drive. Rear seat fold sucked with a massive unconnected bulge... a massive oversight for such a highly rated car.
Out of the four cars from today's drive, this was clearly the worst in the corners. I was breaking in places where I was accelerating with the other cars. Highways were nice. Kinda like the Sportwagen, the car had a high up and floaty feel but unlike the Sportwagen, it did not deliver performance when called upon. For the price, this car is a virtual steal, especially for its feature set. Drop down to the regular version and an even better price for giving up a few creature comforts. I would have much preferred the Accent Hatch but no sunroof was a deal breaker, amongst other things it lacked that I preferred.
Showdown – I liked the Mazda3 better on windy roads but I like the Sportwagen TDI better for straight and getting up to speed on the open road. Both had good performance in the turns but the Mazda3 was lower to the ground, had less body roll, and felt really connected. I pushed the Mazda3 through turns on the gas pedal pushing 40 where I had the Elantra on the break backing off 35. Sportwagen TDI had my sales rep recommending slowing down on a corner once... 40 MPH around a 25 MPH corner, no problem. Oops. Sportwagen had the space advantage and the fold down flat rear seats. Definitely the better option for the dog. But the driving position and experience was lacking compared to the Mazda3. Sportwagen has built in roof rack which is a nice plus. Sportwagen also has the better manual shifting control (I didn't like the diagonal shifter featured in the Elantra and Mazda3)
In an ideal world, S would buy the Sportwagen and I would buy the Mazda3 2012. But the world is not ideal. We both have small sub-compacts and my car is due up for the trade in; whereas her car is just recently paid off and has only 110k miles. The Sportwagen gets better than estimated MPG on the highway and felt better on the wide open road and also has more room and is perfect for the dog. All advantage Sportwagen. Maybe in another three years, S (who prefers bigger cars and crossovers) can trade in her car for a dog friendly gear hauler and then I can trade in for a Mazda3. Until then, practicality trumps best in class driving experience. I am buying more with my head than my heart. VW JSW TDI it is.
It is difficult finding an ideal vehicle to meet all aspects of life including skiing. I suspect I am not alone in that boat. The ideal ski vehicle has yet to be designed. Much like buying a pair of skis, there is compromise everywhere and the one vehicle quiver is as much a myth as the one ski quiver. For those interested, here are my findings.
First, as with a proper ski review, you must know my biases. My absolute requirements for a new vehicle include automatic transmission, high fuel economy (especially highway), good space utility (skiing, camping, dog, etc), MP3/sD connectivity, bluetooth, steering wheel controls, and sunroof. Those are not many requirements but setting a minimum of 35 MPG highway eliminates a lot of vehicles.
My preferences but not requirements included hatchback/wagon, fold completely flat seats, 40+ MPG highway, excellent menu system for audio, and manual control with the automatic (paddle shifters would be ideal).
Based on this criteria, I narrowed things down to the Lexus CT 200h, Audi A3, Volkswagen JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, Subaru Impreza 2012, Hyundai Elantra, and 2012 Kia Rio5. Not included as options were the Ford Focus/Fiesta (can't bring myself to even look at Fords, I know they have changed) and the Chevy Cruze (for a lot of reasons). Toyota Matrix would have been included if not for current gen Impreza-esque MPG. Hyundai Accent was missing some required items and perhaps a touch small for my needs. Honda Fit sadly doesn't get great MPG, especially when you add the paddle shifter package.
Impreza at only 36 MPG and not due until very late Fall, maybe Winter, just was not worth waiting for. Still not sold on Kia longevity (though I am impressed with a recent Rio I sat in), and A3 bare bones I could afford but not with the auto, sunroof, and other options. So that leaves the CT 200h, JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, and Elantra.
Lexus CT 200h (CVT) – This seemed like my dream car on paper: 43/40/42 MPG estimates, most drivers reporting higher than EPA in real world, hatchback with fold flat seats, incredibly sporty design, great looks, and upscale interior. It was definitely a stretch price wise in the low thirties. Unfortunately, this car is small. WAY too small.
The hatch is downright tiny. The seats fold completely flat due to the hybrid battery raising the hatch floor. But there is so little clearance between the raised hatch floor and ceiling. And due to the low ceiling, even with the rear seats folded completely flat and the hatch, cargo space was distinctly limited. A retriever would have a hard time standing upright in the hatch with seats folded flat.
I almost didn't even bother with the test drive. Also of note, the rear seats are tiny as well. Fitting the front seat to my 6'1” long legged bulk, not even a child could have fit in the back seat comfortably and a full size adult would have required me to move my seat forward just to get in, let alone comfort. This car might work for a single or a couple with limited cargo needs and city driving intentions. As a multi-sport outdoor person's vehicle, it would absolutely fail.
Online reviews from enthusiasts and manual preferring car snobs have greatly under estimated this car's get up and go. You'd never know this car rated second worst of all 2011 cars in 0-60 performance. I was over 70 MPH on the highway without realizing it and acceleration was much faster and smoother than my current 124hp econobox that gets 8.9 seconds in the 0-60. I didn't notice the difference between the two different motors but I wasn't really paying attention any ways. It didn't stick out, that is for sure.
Driving performance was impressive considering all the poor reviews. It is not a sports car for sure. But for someone in the econobox performance range, it was nice. The CVT was actually quite cool, I didn't mind not feeling the shifts (which surprised me). But I didn't like the steering at low speeds. I could turn the wheel a full quarter turn each way, back and forth, at low speeds and barely had any movement side to side.
Interior was nice but not mind blowing. I certainly expected a little bit more plush for a Lexus (never been in one before, but it wasn't a massive step up unlike there other cars, I would imagine). The audio system sucked (I drove a model without the nav display... it had a two line dot matrix style screen). The controls were well placed in the nice and low laid back center console. But way too many buttons. I actually prefer buttons usually, but this was a big much. Visibility out the rear corners sucked, one of the worst cars I have been in for rear vis (and considering my current coupe, that is notable).
Overall, this car looked killer from the outside and on paper. But from the time I opened the hatch, I just couldn't believe how poorly the interior was designed. This is a very hard car to find. They actually peeled the plastic off the model I drove and I had to drive to a dealership two hours away to find one in stock. My closest dealership had sold their two allocations before the cars even came off the boat. I just don't know who is buying them. Someone that wants high MPG, moderately nice interior, and that has no need of any cargo room. But if I was a city slicker, I'd go with a Prius which might not look as good but gets 10 more MPG. The new Prius v is even bigger with less MPG. Lexus is on to something here but they need to execute better.
Oh, and I felt way out of my class walking into a Lexus dealership. Just felt like I didn't belong there at all. That didn't help.
Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI (DSG) – This was the pleasant surprise of the day. I really liked everything about this car. This car has been on the short list for two years but I really can't stand the VW brand. The driving experience itself was very different and not to my exact preferences, but I got used to it quickly.
The utility of this wagon is excellent. Massive hatch area with fold down flat seats. The cargo area is expansive and actually more than we actually need. It looks bigger outside than it does inside even with the expansive cargo area... an interesting attribute that I can't fully describe. Though looking back over the shoulders for passing did make me realize how big the vehicle is. I don't know why someone would buy a Crossover or SUV when you can get a JSW TDI for similar or less money for the same or even more room.
Controls on the center console are excellent with a limited number of buttons and nobs, very efficient. Feel and touch of materials was fine, definitely not upscale but certainly competitive in class. Panoramic Sunroof is quite cool, you've gotta check one out if you at all enjoy sunroofs in your car. It really makes the car feel quite spacious and open. The closest you'll get to a convertible without actually buying one.
Driving was good but not my preference. It felt a bit 'floaty' I guess. Obviously, those wanting to feel more connection would go with a sportier Golf or GTI options. Nice in the curves, though, despite those feelings. Actually, the curves felt very nice despite the car's bulk, somewhat surprisingly so.
The DSG manual mode was great, better than the Mazda3 and Elantra by far. Not used to having a car not roll forward when removing my foot from the gas. But the TDI and DSG combine for extremely low RPMs so not rolling out for MPG actually isn't an issue it seems.
Mazda3 Hatch 2011 – I drove the Mazda3 2011 to see if the 2012 with high 30s MPG was worth the wait. The cockpit of this car is incredible. I've never sat in any driver seat that felt so comfortable. The center panel controls were perfectly laid out and wonderfully visually. Interior materials are definitely below class average now. But style and visual and "gut feel" for the cockpit was incredible.
I am not a "car guy". My two cars have been Saturns with 120ish HP. I always drive auto. I am a light foot and always go for max MPG but without the excessively crazy hypermiling stuff (for the most part 8) ). Basically, I am not the target market for a Mazda. But I do really enjoy pushing a car through a turn. It is the one time when I do mash the gas pedal, grip the wheel with two hands, and grin a little bit. It is the only “car guy” type behavior I exhibit in my driving. And the Mazda3 would have had me more than grinning had the sales rep not been driving with us. This car definitely is the best performance type car in its class. Turns and acceleration on the backroads were just great.
That said, I didn't care for the car on the highway. Perhaps my light foot, gradual acceleration style of driving just doesn't mesh with the Mazda3. The gear ratios wanted to push for a lower gear while I wanted an up shift for lower RPM for fuel efficiency. I think it is more personal driving style than anything against the Mazda3. But by my driving style, I didn't like the way this car got up to speed on the highway and would rate it lowest of the four cars I drove for highway. But that says more about me than the car.
The hatch was nice and respectable. While backseats do not fold completely flat, they are better than most. Space was good for a hatch though of course small compared to the Sportwagen. It was enough space for my needs though just lacking slightly for a week long camping trip for two with the dog. Roof box always an option but the Sportwagen had the canine advantage.
Hyundai Elantra Premium – This was the safe and cheap option. Nice car. Rather vanilla. Didn't like the bling on the massive and chunky center console which, along with the dash, was too high (and I am 6'1”!). Lots of space. Massive amount of trunk and passenger room for a so called “compact” car. No spare tire, though, which I don't appreciate given where I drive. Rear seat fold sucked with a massive unconnected bulge... a massive oversight for such a highly rated car.
Out of the four cars from today's drive, this was clearly the worst in the corners. I was breaking in places where I was accelerating with the other cars. Highways were nice. Kinda like the Sportwagen, the car had a high up and floaty feel but unlike the Sportwagen, it did not deliver performance when called upon. For the price, this car is a virtual steal, especially for its feature set. Drop down to the regular version and an even better price for giving up a few creature comforts. I would have much preferred the Accent Hatch but no sunroof was a deal breaker, amongst other things it lacked that I preferred.
Showdown – I liked the Mazda3 better on windy roads but I like the Sportwagen TDI better for straight and getting up to speed on the open road. Both had good performance in the turns but the Mazda3 was lower to the ground, had less body roll, and felt really connected. I pushed the Mazda3 through turns on the gas pedal pushing 40 where I had the Elantra on the break backing off 35. Sportwagen TDI had my sales rep recommending slowing down on a corner once... 40 MPH around a 25 MPH corner, no problem. Oops. Sportwagen had the space advantage and the fold down flat rear seats. Definitely the better option for the dog. But the driving position and experience was lacking compared to the Mazda3. Sportwagen has built in roof rack which is a nice plus. Sportwagen also has the better manual shifting control (I didn't like the diagonal shifter featured in the Elantra and Mazda3)
In an ideal world, S would buy the Sportwagen and I would buy the Mazda3 2012. But the world is not ideal. We both have small sub-compacts and my car is due up for the trade in; whereas her car is just recently paid off and has only 110k miles. The Sportwagen gets better than estimated MPG on the highway and felt better on the wide open road and also has more room and is perfect for the dog. All advantage Sportwagen. Maybe in another three years, S (who prefers bigger cars and crossovers) can trade in her car for a dog friendly gear hauler and then I can trade in for a Mazda3. Until then, practicality trumps best in class driving experience. I am buying more with my head than my heart. VW JSW TDI it is.