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RiverC0il Goes for a Test Drive: CT 200h, JSW TDI, Mazda3, & Elantra

riverc0il

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I figured I should stop hijacking the Impreza 2012 thread and get my own. :D

It is difficult finding an ideal vehicle to meet all aspects of life including skiing. I suspect I am not alone in that boat. The ideal ski vehicle has yet to be designed. Much like buying a pair of skis, there is compromise everywhere and the one vehicle quiver is as much a myth as the one ski quiver. For those interested, here are my findings.

First, as with a proper ski review, you must know my biases. My absolute requirements for a new vehicle include automatic transmission, high fuel economy (especially highway), good space utility (skiing, camping, dog, etc), MP3/sD connectivity, bluetooth, steering wheel controls, and sunroof. Those are not many requirements but setting a minimum of 35 MPG highway eliminates a lot of vehicles.

My preferences but not requirements included hatchback/wagon, fold completely flat seats, 40+ MPG highway, excellent menu system for audio, and manual control with the automatic (paddle shifters would be ideal).

Based on this criteria, I narrowed things down to the Lexus CT 200h, Audi A3, Volkswagen JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, Subaru Impreza 2012, Hyundai Elantra, and 2012 Kia Rio5. Not included as options were the Ford Focus/Fiesta (can't bring myself to even look at Fords, I know they have changed) and the Chevy Cruze (for a lot of reasons). Toyota Matrix would have been included if not for current gen Impreza-esque MPG. Hyundai Accent was missing some required items and perhaps a touch small for my needs. Honda Fit sadly doesn't get great MPG, especially when you add the paddle shifter package.

Impreza at only 36 MPG and not due until very late Fall, maybe Winter, just was not worth waiting for. Still not sold on Kia longevity (though I am impressed with a recent Rio I sat in), and A3 bare bones I could afford but not with the auto, sunroof, and other options. So that leaves the CT 200h, JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, and Elantra.

Lexus CT 200h (CVT) – This seemed like my dream car on paper: 43/40/42 MPG estimates, most drivers reporting higher than EPA in real world, hatchback with fold flat seats, incredibly sporty design, great looks, and upscale interior. It was definitely a stretch price wise in the low thirties. Unfortunately, this car is small. WAY too small.

The hatch is downright tiny. The seats fold completely flat due to the hybrid battery raising the hatch floor. But there is so little clearance between the raised hatch floor and ceiling. And due to the low ceiling, even with the rear seats folded completely flat and the hatch, cargo space was distinctly limited. A retriever would have a hard time standing upright in the hatch with seats folded flat.

I almost didn't even bother with the test drive. Also of note, the rear seats are tiny as well. Fitting the front seat to my 6'1” long legged bulk, not even a child could have fit in the back seat comfortably and a full size adult would have required me to move my seat forward just to get in, let alone comfort. This car might work for a single or a couple with limited cargo needs and city driving intentions. As a multi-sport outdoor person's vehicle, it would absolutely fail.

Online reviews from enthusiasts and manual preferring car snobs have greatly under estimated this car's get up and go. You'd never know this car rated second worst of all 2011 cars in 0-60 performance. I was over 70 MPH on the highway without realizing it and acceleration was much faster and smoother than my current 124hp econobox that gets 8.9 seconds in the 0-60. I didn't notice the difference between the two different motors but I wasn't really paying attention any ways. It didn't stick out, that is for sure.

Driving performance was impressive considering all the poor reviews. It is not a sports car for sure. But for someone in the econobox performance range, it was nice. The CVT was actually quite cool, I didn't mind not feeling the shifts (which surprised me). But I didn't like the steering at low speeds. I could turn the wheel a full quarter turn each way, back and forth, at low speeds and barely had any movement side to side.

Interior was nice but not mind blowing. I certainly expected a little bit more plush for a Lexus (never been in one before, but it wasn't a massive step up unlike there other cars, I would imagine). The audio system sucked (I drove a model without the nav display... it had a two line dot matrix style screen). The controls were well placed in the nice and low laid back center console. But way too many buttons. I actually prefer buttons usually, but this was a big much. Visibility out the rear corners sucked, one of the worst cars I have been in for rear vis (and considering my current coupe, that is notable).

Overall, this car looked killer from the outside and on paper. But from the time I opened the hatch, I just couldn't believe how poorly the interior was designed. This is a very hard car to find. They actually peeled the plastic off the model I drove and I had to drive to a dealership two hours away to find one in stock. My closest dealership had sold their two allocations before the cars even came off the boat. I just don't know who is buying them. Someone that wants high MPG, moderately nice interior, and that has no need of any cargo room. But if I was a city slicker, I'd go with a Prius which might not look as good but gets 10 more MPG. The new Prius v is even bigger with less MPG. Lexus is on to something here but they need to execute better.

Oh, and I felt way out of my class walking into a Lexus dealership. Just felt like I didn't belong there at all. That didn't help.

Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI (DSG) – This was the pleasant surprise of the day. I really liked everything about this car. This car has been on the short list for two years but I really can't stand the VW brand. The driving experience itself was very different and not to my exact preferences, but I got used to it quickly.

The utility of this wagon is excellent. Massive hatch area with fold down flat seats. The cargo area is expansive and actually more than we actually need. It looks bigger outside than it does inside even with the expansive cargo area... an interesting attribute that I can't fully describe. Though looking back over the shoulders for passing did make me realize how big the vehicle is. I don't know why someone would buy a Crossover or SUV when you can get a JSW TDI for similar or less money for the same or even more room.

Controls on the center console are excellent with a limited number of buttons and nobs, very efficient. Feel and touch of materials was fine, definitely not upscale but certainly competitive in class. Panoramic Sunroof is quite cool, you've gotta check one out if you at all enjoy sunroofs in your car. It really makes the car feel quite spacious and open. The closest you'll get to a convertible without actually buying one.

Driving was good but not my preference. It felt a bit 'floaty' I guess. Obviously, those wanting to feel more connection would go with a sportier Golf or GTI options. Nice in the curves, though, despite those feelings. Actually, the curves felt very nice despite the car's bulk, somewhat surprisingly so.

The DSG manual mode was great, better than the Mazda3 and Elantra by far. Not used to having a car not roll forward when removing my foot from the gas. But the TDI and DSG combine for extremely low RPMs so not rolling out for MPG actually isn't an issue it seems.

Mazda3 Hatch 2011 – I drove the Mazda3 2011 to see if the 2012 with high 30s MPG was worth the wait. The cockpit of this car is incredible. I've never sat in any driver seat that felt so comfortable. The center panel controls were perfectly laid out and wonderfully visually. Interior materials are definitely below class average now. But style and visual and "gut feel" for the cockpit was incredible.

I am not a "car guy". My two cars have been Saturns with 120ish HP. I always drive auto. I am a light foot and always go for max MPG but without the excessively crazy hypermiling stuff (for the most part 8) ). Basically, I am not the target market for a Mazda. But I do really enjoy pushing a car through a turn. It is the one time when I do mash the gas pedal, grip the wheel with two hands, and grin a little bit. It is the only “car guy” type behavior I exhibit in my driving. And the Mazda3 would have had me more than grinning had the sales rep not been driving with us. This car definitely is the best performance type car in its class. Turns and acceleration on the backroads were just great.

That said, I didn't care for the car on the highway. Perhaps my light foot, gradual acceleration style of driving just doesn't mesh with the Mazda3. The gear ratios wanted to push for a lower gear while I wanted an up shift for lower RPM for fuel efficiency. I think it is more personal driving style than anything against the Mazda3. But by my driving style, I didn't like the way this car got up to speed on the highway and would rate it lowest of the four cars I drove for highway. But that says more about me than the car.

The hatch was nice and respectable. While backseats do not fold completely flat, they are better than most. Space was good for a hatch though of course small compared to the Sportwagen. It was enough space for my needs though just lacking slightly for a week long camping trip for two with the dog. Roof box always an option but the Sportwagen had the canine advantage.

Hyundai Elantra Premium – This was the safe and cheap option. Nice car. Rather vanilla. Didn't like the bling on the massive and chunky center console which, along with the dash, was too high (and I am 6'1”!). Lots of space. Massive amount of trunk and passenger room for a so called “compact” car. No spare tire, though, which I don't appreciate given where I drive. Rear seat fold sucked with a massive unconnected bulge... a massive oversight for such a highly rated car.

Out of the four cars from today's drive, this was clearly the worst in the corners. I was breaking in places where I was accelerating with the other cars. Highways were nice. Kinda like the Sportwagen, the car had a high up and floaty feel but unlike the Sportwagen, it did not deliver performance when called upon. For the price, this car is a virtual steal, especially for its feature set. Drop down to the regular version and an even better price for giving up a few creature comforts. I would have much preferred the Accent Hatch but no sunroof was a deal breaker, amongst other things it lacked that I preferred.

Showdown – I liked the Mazda3 better on windy roads but I like the Sportwagen TDI better for straight and getting up to speed on the open road. Both had good performance in the turns but the Mazda3 was lower to the ground, had less body roll, and felt really connected. I pushed the Mazda3 through turns on the gas pedal pushing 40 where I had the Elantra on the break backing off 35. Sportwagen TDI had my sales rep recommending slowing down on a corner once... 40 MPH around a 25 MPH corner, no problem. Oops. :) Sportwagen had the space advantage and the fold down flat rear seats. Definitely the better option for the dog. But the driving position and experience was lacking compared to the Mazda3. Sportwagen has built in roof rack which is a nice plus. Sportwagen also has the better manual shifting control (I didn't like the diagonal shifter featured in the Elantra and Mazda3)

In an ideal world, S would buy the Sportwagen and I would buy the Mazda3 2012. But the world is not ideal. We both have small sub-compacts and my car is due up for the trade in; whereas her car is just recently paid off and has only 110k miles. The Sportwagen gets better than estimated MPG on the highway and felt better on the wide open road and also has more room and is perfect for the dog. All advantage Sportwagen. Maybe in another three years, S (who prefers bigger cars and crossovers) can trade in her car for a dog friendly gear hauler and then I can trade in for a Mazda3. Until then, practicality trumps best in class driving experience. I am buying more with my head than my heart. VW JSW TDI it is.
 

deadheadskier

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bummer to hear the Hyundai was such a let down. I haven't driven an Elantra. I've been quite satisfied with my Sonata having gone 150K miles in it and not sunk a dime into outside of routine maintenance.

It's too bad Mazda got rid of the old 6 Wagon. Think they may have made it in AWD one of the years as well. They still sell it in Australia, where apparently Mazda is much more popular than here in the US. We love our 04, Mazda3.

Not looking to replace either car for 2-3 years. We are of the drive the car into the ground mentality. The Sportwagen will certainly get a look from us down the road. I'm curious to read about what kind of maintenance issues they have over 125K miles. Many 09s will be in that range when we're looking. Reliability is paramount to me. My perception of European cars is they start to break down after 100K miles and become expensive to maintain. I hope you don't experience such with your new ride.
 

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Cutting to the chase, I got the JSW TDI with the Impreza and 3 being finalists.
 

riverc0il

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bummer to hear the Hyundai was such a let down. I haven't driven an Elantra. I've been quite satisfied with my Sonata having gone 150K miles in it and not sunk a dime into outside of routine maintenance.

It's too bad Mazda got rid of the old 6 Wagon. Think they may have made it in AWD one of the years as well. They still sell it in Australia, where apparently Mazda is much more popular than here in the US. We love our 04, Mazda3.

Not looking to replace either car for 2-3 years. We are of the drive the car into the ground mentality. The Sportwagen will certainly get a look from us down the road. I'm curious to read about what kind of maintenance issues they have over 125K miles. Many 09s will be in that range when we're looking. Reliability is paramount to me. My perception of European cars is they start to break down after 100K miles and become expensive to maintain. I hope you don't experience such with your new ride.
The Elantra has received rave reviews across the board from almost all automotive journalists and is always in the top three within its class. I can understand the press. It is a lot of car for the money. But it is super bland. I absolutely detested the center console and high dash height (and I'm 6'1") and the rear seat fold down was cheap. No spare tire either. Hyundai made the materials look full of bling but definitely cut corners where most people don't look. I'm sure it is a great car, just not what I was looking for. Very surprised as I honestly thought I might have just taken the Elantra due to price when I first started looking.

S drove a Protege wagon a while back. She didn't like it's sporty drive and favored the Matrix. I didn't get to drive it but I loved the look and given my experience with the 3, would have loved the drive, too. I can see why the cut it out of the lineup due to the 3. A 6 wagon would be ideal for good space, too bad indeed.

Longevity on the TDIs seems to be a mixed bag. Not a ton of bad news but the folks reporting problems seem to have major and expensive issues. Plenty of TDI drivers well over 200k with regular maintenance only. Definitely a bit of a roll of the dice it seems. I'm feeling lucky. :D
 

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Hyundai has been making a lot of progress in recent years. Some are saying they'll be right up there with Toyota and Honda in terms of sales volume down the road.

Great reivew. Thanks for typing all that up.
 

deadheadskier

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From what I've read, the next generation Elantra Touring will be shrinking down to a 3 sized hatchback. I'm assuming that perhaps many people have the same impression of the car as you did and Hyundai isn't moving the volume of vehicles they had hoped.

Another wagon bites the dust.
 

hammer

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Great reivew. Thanks for typing all that up.

+1...interesting mix of cars for the comparison.

My perception of European cars is they start to break down after 100K miles and become expensive to maintain. I hope you don't experience such with your new ride.

FWIW my Japanese make vehicles started to cost more in repairs after 100K miles. Not to the point where they were not driveable, but things started to break nevertheless.

I went away from Japanese vehicles on my last 2 purchases. Toyotas and Subarus may still be more reliable but the Volvo and Jeep that I purchased just felt more substantial, had better quality materials, and drove better. Hope that it's a tradeoff I don't regret in 4-5 years time.
 

JimG.

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+1...interesting mix of cars for the comparison.



FWIW my Japanese make vehicles started to cost more in repairs after 100K miles. Not to the point where they were not driveable, but things started to break nevertheless.

I went away from Japanese vehicles on my last 2 purchases. Toyotas and Subarus may still be more reliable but the Volvo and Jeep that I purchased just felt more substantial, had better quality materials, and drove better. Hope that it's a tradeoff I don't regret in 4-5 years time.

Wow, interesting how folks have different opinions about these types of things. Your opinions are totally at odds with my experiences.

I considered a Volvo and test drove a few, but I didn't think the quality of the cars matched the price they were asking. They felt cheap and tinny to me. And I won't say much about Chysler/Jeep products other than the one Chrysler product I made the poor choice of purchasing turned out to be nothing more than a total pile of junk.

I've been a Subaru man for the last 15 years and have been ultimately satisfied with the quality, utility, and overall driving experience. In my experiences the Subarus are just getting broken in at 100K miles. My wife's Legacy had 227K on it when we replaced it and still ran like a top. My 04 Outback had 350K on it and would have run forever if some moron didn't rear end it at a school crossing. Our 05 Outback which replaced the Legacy has 100K on it and still seems like new.

And other than head gaskets that seem to start leaking at 100K (not a terrible repair either since you can combine it with the timing belt replacement recommended at 105K), these cars have required nothing but routine maintenance.

And I feel that the selling prices of Subarus are inexpensive too. My new 2011 Legacy 2.5i premium with the all weather package cost $23,400 delivered, after all dealer prep fees and taxes. With the 6 speed and PZEV I averaged 33 miles per gallon this past weekend on my trip to Delaware and back. For a car with full time 4wd, that just plain kicks ass.

I will buy nothing else.
 

deadheadskier

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My 04 Legacy Wagon was dead at 100K miles :lol: When I got it with 57K miles on it, it felt older than my 07 Sonata does now with 150K. Granted, the car lived in Brooklyn and NYC prior to me driving it.
 

JimG.

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My 04 Legacy Wagon was dead at 100K miles :lol: When I got it with 57K miles on it, it felt older than my 07 Sonata does now with 150K. Granted, the car lived in Brooklyn and NYC prior to me driving it.

Chances are the person who owned it before you did not maintain it well.

One of the main reasons I avoid used cars...poor maintenance destroys longevity. 57K on a Subaru is nothing.

I did purchase 2 Subarus that were demos...both had less than 10K on them when I bought them and were essentially new since only the dealers and a few potential customers had driven them. Those would be my wife's old Legacy with 227K and the Outback with 350K.

I guess this is the reason manufacturers always use the caveat that actual driving experiences may be different depending on driving habits.
 

hammer

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Wow, interesting how folks have different opinions about these types of things. Your opinions are totally at odds with my experiences.

I considered a Volvo and test drove a few, but I didn't think the quality of the cars matched the price they were asking. They felt cheap and tinny to me. And I won't say much about Chysler/Jeep products other than the one Chrysler product I made the poor choice of purchasing turned out to be nothing more than a total pile of junk.

I've been a Subaru man for the last 15 years and have been ultimately satisfied with the quality, utility, and overall driving experience. In my experiences the Subarus are just getting broken in at 100K miles. My wife's Legacy had 227K on it when we replaced it and still ran like a top. My 04 Outback had 350K on it and would have run forever if some moron didn't rear end it at a school crossing. Our 05 Outback which replaced the Legacy has 100K on it and still seems like new.

And other than head gaskets that seem to start leaking at 100K (not a terrible repair either since you can combine it with the timing belt replacement recommended at 105K), these cars have required nothing but routine maintenance.

And I feel that the selling prices of Subarus are inexpensive too. My new 2011 Legacy 2.5i premium with the all weather package cost $23,400 delivered, after all dealer prep fees and taxes. With the 6 speed and PZEV I averaged 33 miles per gallon this past weekend on my trip to Delaware and back. For a car with full time 4wd, that just plain kicks ass.

I will buy nothing else.
Comparing a Volvo to a Subaru is not really apples to apples...Volvos are in the "neo luxury" category and admittedly have higher price points (but they do discount a lot off of MSRP). I tend to look at Volvos as lower cost alternatives to expensive German makes, and in that light I'm pretty pleased with my decision so far.

The Jeep that we just purchased (2011 Grand Cherokee) was a real surprise. Much more refined and quieter on the road than any of the Japanese SUVs we test drove. My last Chrysler purchase in the 80s was a fast car but a real POS, so I do have concerns about reliability on the Jeep, especially since it's a first year redesign...but I'll see how it plays out. Have to admit I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a service contract.

Looking back on it, with the exception of the $2000 I spent on the Head Gasket issue, my Subaru was pretty reliable. Main concerns I had when I donated the car at 174K miles were that the transmission wasn't smoothly shifting from 2nd to 3rd (but it wasn't bad enough to need repair) and the catalytic converter was going. My DW also hated the brakes on it and was worried that it wasn't a safe vehicle for our son as a beater car. I've actually spent more on the Toyota Highlander in repairs in the second 100K of its life than I did for the Subaru.
 

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Having sold both Volvos and Subarus for many years, well over 1000 of each brand, Subaru is currently the winner in the "ski car" category. When, you look at all the costs including maintenance and resale, Subaru.
 

Nick

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Both my cars (03 Saab 9-3 and 02 Mits Lancer) are paid off, so I'm hesitent to buy another car, but they are getting up there now (165k and 130k, respectively) in mileage.

I'll be on a similar search soon. I'm guessing probably next spring it will be time.
 

hammer

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Having sold both Volvos and Subarus for many years, well over 1000 of each brand, Subaru is currently the winner in the "ski car" category. When, you look at all the costs including maintenance and resale, Subaru.
When I purchased my Volvo I did so as a less expensive alternative to Infinity and BMW, not because it would be a better ski car than a Subaru. The Subaru would have been the cheaper and more practical alternative but I wanted something different...
 

riverc0il

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From what I've read, the next generation Elantra Touring will be shrinking down to a 3 sized hatchback. I'm assuming that perhaps many people have the same impression of the car as you did and Hyundai isn't moving the volume of vehicles they had hoped.

Another wagon bites the dust.
I think it is a dumb decision. The Elantra Touring was tops on my list excepting MPG which is pretty terrible. The Touring isn't the same platform as the Elantra, it is a far superior Euro styled vehicle. A smaller Elantra Touring might but up against the Accent Hatch. Not sure I understand that move. But I have heard a Sonata Wagon comparable to their Euro equiv is a possibility down the road, maybe...

Wagons and hatches are back, woot.
 

deadheadskier

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From what I've read, the decision to shrink the car is partly to get some of the Mazda3/GTI market, plus they want to improve fuel economy to match the sedan.

maybe we'll get a spare tire too :lol:
 

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The Jeep that we just purchased (2011 Grand Cherokee) was a real surprise. Much more refined and quieter on the road than any of the Japanese SUVs we test drove. My last Chrysler purchase in the 80s was a fast car but a real POS, so I do have concerns about reliability on the Jeep, especially since it's a first year redesign...but I'll see how it plays out. Have to admit I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a service contract.

Those new Grand Cherokees are badass, albeit slightly underpowered with the V6. Not enough to notice really, but if you like to gun it off the line you might notice.

The new Grand Cherokees ride on the same platform as the new Mercedes M Class. The one good thing that came out of the Daimley Chrysler love child.
 

billski

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So Steve, How are they "snow-rated"? I don't mean your abilities, I mean, how well is the car respond, how well does it perform to commuter trips on a powder day. I know, it's summer time, who can say for sure. The one thing I wish I had was a wee bit more clearance.

I can't believe the number of comments about their wheels only getting ~100K-ish. These guys must drive them hard. I always keep it until it has 200K or 10 years under its belt, whichever comes first. That is the point I start having major repairs. This has been with Subaru, Toyota (lots of various ones) and Saab. Look like the Audi will get me there too. Thoughts?
 

Geoff

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I can't believe the number of comments about their wheels only getting ~100K-ish. These guys must drive them hard. I always keep it until it has 200K or 10 years under its belt, whichever comes first. That is the point I start having major repairs. This has been with Subaru, Toyota (lots of various ones) and Saab. Look like the Audi will get me there too. Thoughts?

I tend to dump my cars at 150K. They're still mechanically perfect but I prefer to sell the car before there is something seriously wrong with it. I try to buy leftover and slightly out of favor cars at a big discount. My two VW GTIs were bought as leftovers when there were big dealer incentives. My SUVs were all bought with all kinds of incentives & rebates. It's a depreciating asset. I don't see the point in paying the extra for a high demand car.

Right now, I'm not driving enough to need a new car anytime soon. I don't commute. I winter at a ski area. My only driving is to the airport for business trips. Unless my SUV falls apart from rust, I have another 4 or 5 years with the cars I own now.
 
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