The Future of Resorting

[stomachdoc]

Originally Posted by abc

Absolutely spot on!

What "resort"? It's skiing we care about, not the spa at the base!

No. Remember that they have 750-800 condo units to sell. As much as we love skiing, there are 8 other months in the year that folks who buy those condos are going to be paying mortgages, condo fees and taxes. So, if they want to attract buyers beyond the few folks who are committed to Burke as a mountain, they absolutely need the golf/tennis/spa/shopping thing to succeed. Why would anyone drive further for less amenities? Great, oldstyle mountain notwithstanding, they are selling to "Billy and Betty BMW" not to the few folks who think riding the slow Willoughby quad to the top is "old school."

[Masskier]

Originally Posted by from_the_NEK

Yikes...
I have been perusing Burke's Act250 application -

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/P...lExpanPlan.PDF

and I am rather disturbed at a lot of the trail widening plans that are on the Trail Expansion Plan map. I already knew they planned to expand the offerings in the East Bowl but it looks to me like a lot of trails are going to get the McSkiing treatment of widening/straightening. Just look at where Carriage Road and Dougs Drop are (or more precisely, were) . Addionally, the East Bowl trail as we know it looks to be turned into a gentrified uninteresting mess . Burke does NOT need to turn itself into a steeper version of Okemo. There are not nearly enough (nor will there ever be) people to require that much downhill capacity. The narrow interesting trails are what give Burke its character. Sure its fun to do an occasional screamer run down the Dippers but that gets old in a hurry. Openning up those trails like that is also going to cause a lot of wind scouring. I really hope that the majority of the widening/straightening crap is the LAST thing on the list of developers. I do understand the need to do this in some places as traffic patterns are going to change with a new lift configuration. However, these plans are so far overboard I wonder if this is a case of ask for permits to build a H1 Hummer when all they really expect to build is a Jeep.

Keep in mind that Okemo does north of 600k skier visits and has an uphill capacity of 32,250 per hour. Burke after its build out will have an uphill lift capacity of 9,700 and hopes to increase skier visit to 120-140k range. A totally different experience. Granted there will be some trail widening, but It won't be to the extent of turning burke into a mck ski area. There will still be plenty of trails with lots of character. Another way of looking at this is density. If you take the target skier visits of Burke and divide it into the final skiable acres and then take total number of residential units and devide it into the trail acreage you will find that burke density is 1/3 to 1/4 the density of the mck ski resorts.

[Masskier]

Originally Posted by SKIQUATTRO

personally, i dont care for built up places like Stratton...i like old school, no frills places with old lifts and classic new england charm (bromley, smuggs, etc) ...used to be you went to VT to get away from your daily life, change the scenery, get back in touch with nature...now they are brining all they have from home to VT.....it happened in the Hamptons, used to be a quiet seaside place with local stores and shops, now its Starbucks, Gucci and the like...same thing the people just left 3 hrs ago in Manhattan.......

I agree and feel the same way. I think more and more people are getting tired of the overbuilt crowded resorts and this is where Burke experience shines. Its so nice when I can ski a trail with my kids and we have the trail to ourselfs, Vs skiing in traffic.

[Masskier]

Originally Posted by crank

If you believe that...man are you gullible.

I am gullible, Just ask my wife. But the point is, the owners of Burke recognize that we are in a whole new era of resort development. And the ways of the past, density and glitz, is not the model for the future. Burke could be one of the first new resorts developed in the US under a new model, "Less is more" low density""working farm community" Authentic ect.

[Masskier]

Originally Posted by UVSHTSTRM

They showed the artist renditions of the base and village.....there isn't really anything authentic about it. I am not saying there is anything wrong with what there doing, but to say they are not being compared to Tremblant and Stratton is not true, they are aiming for that, with a touch of NEK, whatever that is in this case.

I think when Ginn was involved, their original plans were perhaps more in that direction. But since Crave took over they are in the process of doing a total reevaluation. That's why the act 250 is for master plan approval only and not construction approval. The plans for Burke are definitely evolving towards "back to nature" authentic.

[UVSHTSTRM]

Originally Posted by Masskier

I think when Ginn was involved, their original plans were perhaps more in that direction. But since Crave took over they are in the process of doing a total reevaluation. That's why the act 250 is for master plan approval only and not construction approval. The plans for Burke are definitely evolving towards "back to nature" authentic.

I hope so, being a resident of Grafton County in the past I took advantage of the awesome 20 or 25 dollar Sunday ticket. I must say I was impressed, I felt like I was at a better version of Big Squaw in Maine. There was always plenty of powder in the woods and the trails were nice and fairly narrow which meant good snow coverage, plus the old school, real old school bar was something I truly enjoyed.

And I must state again I am not against the build up and out of resorts as long as it's done nicely...as the potential is there to provide jobs and help with the economy, which does struggle in NEK.

In all honesty I wish something like this would happen where I grew up in Maine, which like NEK struggles to find a balance between the economy and keeping what already draws people.

[the original trailboss]

For those of us who have lived and worked here all of our lives the "less is more" mentality is a way of life (one of the reasons the NEK has not been totally trashed by the "economy" ). As for Burke Mountain its BIGGEST asset is what it isn't - hopefully Crave will recognize that, ditch the glitz of their promo and sell the EB5 investors on what Burke really is-a very special place. And how does the farm fit any of this ?

[abc]

Originally Posted by stomachdoc

No. Remember that they have 750-800 condo units to sell. As much as we love skiing, there are 8 other months in the year that folks who buy those condos are going to be paying mortgages, condo fees and taxes. So, if they want to attract buyers beyond the few folks who are committed to Burke as a mountain, they absolutely need the golf/tennis/spa/shopping thing to succeed.

You mean "succeed" in the sense making big mega buck? I usppose you're probably right...

Though I'm not sure the days of "build more condos and they'll come" might already be gone. Burke might have have already missed the train...