COVID concerns in the Northeast

[Puck it]

Not going to argue regarding mask usage. However, it is completely misleading to use these graphs to try and make your point. You are showing positive tests, yet level of testing was virtually non-existent early on. The actual number of cases in April/May are quite possibly 8-10 times the amount in the graph based on various estimates. Yes . . . hospitalizations are up now, so there is a bit of a surge, but it is not as dramatic as these "graphs" portray. And the current hospitalizations are generally less severe than in April/May. All this would point to mask usage being a benefit, since it is likely tamping down the current situation relative to how things REALLY were early on.

Your hypothesis of the data is valid but it is a way to read. It could also be read as the mandate is not affecting the virus by improper mask wearing and/or type. Hospitalizations are way down from the original spike. Virus could less virulent as so papers have published.

 

[JimG.]

SO everyone who has been skiing, what is your mask method? Cloth mask under the chin while skiing, up while riding the lift? Balaclava all day?

I was at Gore yesterday and that was my method. Cloth mask while on line and lift, under chin while skiing. Really a MINOR hassle. I started out with a gaiter and mask and that was good until I warmed up and got too hot. So I lost the gaiter and used my hood zipped up with the mask until I was skiing.

 

[cdskier]

Your hypothesis of the data is valid but it is a way to read. It could also be read as the mandate is not affecting the virus by improper mask wearing and/or type.

It could also be related to where transmissions are occurring. If they're occurring indoors in private locations where people aren't wearing masks among people "they know" or where they simply aren't required to wear them, then that's a factor as well and does nothing to prove mask effectiveness one way or the other.

Mask mandates are one thing...compliance, proper mask usage, and whether people are letting their guard down in certain scenarios are entirely different though and potential major factors on the virus case rates.

 

[kbroderick]

It could also be related to where transmissions are occurring. If they're occurring indoors in private locations where people aren't wearing masks among people "they know" or where they simply aren't required to wear them, then that's a factor as well and does nothing to prove mask effectiveness one way or the other.

Mask mandates are one thing...compliance, proper mask usage, and whether people are letting their guard down in certain scenarios are entirely different though and potential major factors on the virus case rates.

...plus the mask mandates thus far have all come when the solid waste was already headed towards the fan. With the significant window for pre-symptomatic transmission and the relatively high infection rate of Covid-19, it's very hard to tell at that point if regulations are having an immediate impact or not, as they may be reasonably effective in reducing further spread but the stats will keep going up for some amount of time due to spread prior to those regulations.

 

[Puck it]

It could also be related to where transmissions are occurring. If they're occurring indoors in private locations where people aren't wearing masks among people "they know" or where they simply aren't required to wear them, then that's a factor as well and does nothing to prove mask effectiveness one way or the other.

Mask mandates are one thing...compliance, proper mask usage, and whether people are letting their guard down in certain scenarios are entirely different though and potential major factors on the virus case rates.

MA mandate is everywhere except in your own home or property. FYI.

 

[Puck it]

...plus the mask mandates thus far have all come when the solid waste was already headed towards the fan. With the significant window for pre-symptomatic transmission and the relatively high infection rate of Covid-19, it's very hard to tell at that point if regulations are having an immediate impact or not, as they may be reasonably effective in reducing further spread but the stats will keep going up for some amount of time due to spread prior to those regulations.

MA first mandate was on the down slope so that theory does not hold for that scenario.

 

[abc]

As conditions are still pretty marginal, I'm not yet skiing. Instead, I'm sitting in front of a keyboard making random comments on how Covid will affect skiing...

it's very hard to tell at that point if regulations are having an immediate impact or not, as they may be reasonably effective in reducing further spread but the stats will keep going up for some amount of time due to spread prior to those regulations

This reminds me about driving on icy/snowy roads.

Most on this board drive on wintery roads often enough to have learned you need to ANTICIPATE the condition and how it'll affect your car. Slow down BEFORE you need to brake, or keep the momentum going without steering etc.

But so far, most of the response to Covid resembles a typical flatlander driving up to the mountains in winter. They drive as they normally do back home, They come into the corner too fact, then slam on the brake. Only to see their car skidded sideways into the snowbank!

While some slowly learns. Others were more like "hell, the brakes don't work on ice anyway. Let's just not bother. We'll hope all the airbags will save us"!

 

[cdskier]

MA mandate is everywhere except in your own home or property. FYI.

Yes, I know. That's exactly what I meant by saying people could be catching it in "private locations" where they're not using masks.

 

[Puck it]

Yes, I know. That's exactly what I meant by saying people could be catching it in "private locations" where they're not using masks.

So Baker will mandate masks in homes to reduce the spread.

 

[abc]

So Baker will mandate masks in homes to reduce the spread.

If people are spending hours in their grannies house without mask, after they've spend a couple hours in a bar every day of the week, what can we say?

You can't mandate "no stupidity".

 

[kingslug]

Look at it this way. In NYC people walk around with masks. Yet people sitting right next to the sidewalk in outdoor dining spots , do not. Whats the point.
Indoor dining: wear a mask when you walk in , then take it off when you sit down. ???

 

[Edd]

Look at it this way. In NYC people walk around with masks. Yet people sitting right next to the sidewalk in outdoor dining spots , do not. Whats the point.
Indoor dining: wear a mask when you walk in , then take it off when you sit down. ???

That’s where distance comes in.

 

[kbroderick]

If people are spending hours in their grannies house without mask, after they've spend a couple hours in a bar every day of the week, what can we say?

You can't mandate "no stupidity".

We try, and try again, but they keep inventing better idiots. I worry more about spending time in the house with cousin Kathy who works at a nursing home; it's one thing for the stupidity to prune your own family tree, it's another when it starts spreading.

I'd bet that a significant portion of the onerous Covid-related restrictions would be unnecessary if "don't be stupid or selfish" were an enforceable regulation. Hell, a significant portion of all regulations, for that matter.

 

[tnt1234]

Look at it this way. In NYC people walk around with masks. Yet people sitting right next to the sidewalk in outdoor dining spots , do not. Whats the point.
Indoor dining: wear a mask when you walk in , then take it off when you sit down. ???

The idea is, you shouldn't be eating indoors with people outside your bubble. I know plenty of people don't treat it that way, but that is what we should be doing.

So you are wearing the mask to separate yourself from other diners and staff. Then you sit with your bubble and the masks can come off.

Again, that's not what is going on, but that's the guidance I think.

We've sat at picnic tables outdoors two or three times at resturants with others that our family members. Felt OK, but not comfortable enough for us to do it more frequently. And we have zero plans to eat indoors any time soon. Seems to risky for our comfort level with other friends, and a little pointless if it's just us. Why not just do take out at that point?

Everyone's different, but that's where we are at right now. Would be a shame to fuck it all up now so close to a vaccine. And skiing is going to be our one higher risk activity. We'll offset that risk by being conservative elsewhere.

2020 sucks.

 

[kingslug]

The dining spots on the sidewalks are right next to the sidewalks..Lot of people standing around and walking past..not much distance..and if this virus is hanging around in that airspace ..then you are breathing it.

 

[kbroderick]

The dining spots on the sidewalks are right next to the sidewalks..Lot of people standing around and walking past..not much distance..and if this virus is hanging around in that airspace ..then you are breathing it.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I take a deep breath before walking by the outdoor dining next to the sidewalk on our normal dog-walking route so I can exhale until I'm at least a bit (hopefully more than six feet) past it.

 

[abc]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I take a deep breath before walking by the outdoor dining next to the sidewalk on our normal dog-walking route so I can exhale until I'm at least a bit (hopefully more than six feet) past it.

Droplets don't float upward. You're safe walking by people sitting down (unless you're very short)

 

[abc]

The dining spots on the sidewalks are right next to the sidewalks..Lot of people standing around and walking past..not much distance..and if this virus is hanging around in that airspace ..then you are breathing it.

I think it varies.

Some restaurants I saw put some decorations around the outdoor dining tent, effectively creating a buffer space separating diner from the passersby.

Other restaurants I saw don't put the table at the edge of the tent. So again, their diners aren't really sitting right next to the sidewalk.

But yes, I also saw what you described. kind of pointless to be sitting at the sidewalk when everyone in the world walk right by.

 

[kbroderick]

Droplets don't float upward. You're safe walking by people sitting down (unless you're very short)

Hopefully true in general, but it doesn't help the particular case I'm thinking of...the restaurant has a deck next to the sidewalk but several feet up, so the diners are actually above head level on the sidewalk.

 

[tnt1234]

The dining spots on the sidewalks are right next to the sidewalks..Lot of people standing around and walking past..not much distance..and if this virus is hanging around in that airspace ..then you are breathing it.

The natural airflow outside does a lot to prevent transmission. Very few if any confirmed cases of outdoor transmission. One reason why skiing should be pretty darn safe.

I agree with the places that have the tables basically in the sidewalk...does seem crazy.

But really, from what I understand, a vast majority of cases come from indoor contact, maskless, greater than 15 minutes.