Colorado and Union Pacific Enter Agreement to Extend The "Ski Train" to Steamboat

[thetrailboss]

Big happenings in Colorado. The State subsidized the "Ski Train" last year from Denver to Winter Park thus decreasing prices to as low as $19 per passenger while increasing service. The response was dramatic--going from 17,500 riders to 44,000 last year. The State owns the Moffat Tunnel on the line and UP needed to renew its lease. This led to the negotiations and deal to greatly expand passenger service to go as far as Steamboat in the next few years. Pretty cool.

A Ski Train to Colo.'s Steamboat Is In the Foreseeable Future

A new deal increases and eventually expands service beyond Winter Park.

www.skimag.com

 

[thetrailboss]

Ski train to Steamboat looking likely under new mountain railroad agreement

Gov. Jared Polis announced Colorado’s new deal with Union Pacific, calling for three passenger trips per day on mountain rail

coloradosun.com

 

[jimmywilson69]

I've also seen articles where they want to put trucks on the trains to get them off I-70. The would load up in Denver and then get off the train on the western slope of the mountains somewhere. I think that's a fantastic idea.

 

[deadheadskier]

That's cheap. To grab a bus from Portsmouth, NH to Logan is $27 one way.

 

[RH29]

If only the state DOTs could put their heads together and run something like that out here. A line that branches off from Amtrak's Vermonter quite literally runs through the mountain at Okemo - and the only time in my life I've ridden the Coleman Brook lift, a train went under. No reason they can't run service from NY and CT up there.

 

[urungus]

If only the state DOTs could put their heads together and run something like that out here. A line that branches off from Amtrak's Vermonter quite literally runs through the mountain at Okemo - and the only time in my life I've ridden the Coleman Brook lift, a train went under. No reason they can't run service from NY and CT up there.

Would be nice to see. However those train tracks through Okemo are owned by a private company so they would have to be convinced (paid) to run passenger trains on their tracks. Not all train companies are amenable to allowing other operators on their tracks - in Colorado’s case, the private company was forced to come to the table because their lease was expiring and freight traffic was dwindling. Also, as in Colorado, some expensive rebuilding of the line might be required since passenger trains require a smoother ride than freight trains.

https://vtrans.vermont.gov/sites/aot/files/rail/Rail%20Contact%20Info%20Color%2011x17.pdf

 

[machski]

SR for a time during the LBO era had the Silver Bullet Ski Train from Portland. It eventually failed as it was mostly kids riding it and sponsor Coors wasn't selling many Coors Light on board. It was also perhaps ahead of its time as it was before the Downeaster was running from Boston to Portland. I wonder if it was restarted now with the link to Boston and towns North, if the SR train would be more attractive now.

 

[thetrailboss]

Would be nice to see. However those train tracks through Okemo are owned by a private company so they would have to be convinced (paid) to run passenger trains on their tracks. Not all train companies are amenable to allowing other operators on their tracks - in Colorado’s case, the private company was forced to come to the table because their lease was expiring and freight traffic was dwindling. Also, as in Colorado, some expensive rebuilding of the line might be required since passenger trains require a smoother ride than freight trains.

https://vtrans.vermont.gov/sites/aot/files/rail/Rail%20Contact%20Info%20Color%2011x17.pdf

So technically, the line through Okemo is actually state-owned and leased to the Vermont Rail System, which is very Amtrak friendly. It's just a resource issue, as you said, because the state has limited dollars.

VRS has worked collaboratively with the state for over 60 years. The story of VRS is a very interesting one if you like learning about business. Basically, the Rutland Railroad went bankrupt after a prolonged strike and were going to remove the rails across a good portion of the state. A young guy named Jay Wulfson, who ran a small railroad in New Jersey, thought that he could run a portion of the railroad (from Bennington to Burlington) if he could lease it. He and others convinced Vermont the buy the Rutland and he leased that portion while another group leased the Rutland-Bellows Falls portion. He was a success and the rest is history. VRS now leases and operates other sections in Vermont that were also going to be abandoned and removed. They do a great job with local industries and going after business and then serving those businesses.

VRS does run tourist trains on the line through Okemo. Investing to increase the speed though is big dollars and the state and VRS are more interested in extending Amtrak from Rutland down to Bennington and over to Albany. They recently brought Amtrak from Rutland up to Burlington and ridership is above expectations so far.

UP, like other Class I railroads, despise Amtrak and see it as a nuisance. The article buries the lead because one can see that UP was losing its coal business on the line and did not have enough traffic. And, as you said, was forced to the negotiating table due to the tunnel.

 

[4aprice]

This has been in the works or a while now. When they first came up with the idea they had hearings in Granby and a neighbor of ours told us they proposed some astromomical fare like a buck twenty to get from Denver to Steamboat one way, That's not going to be any game changer for getting people off the roads when its so much cheaper to drive. This year seemed to have changed things. First they expanded service to Winter Park Resort (the platform at the ski area) with reasonable prices and ridership soared. Now they are talking the expanded service the article is about. Service wise now, we put a friend on the Zephyr (which is the current daily route, not the ski train) in Fraser, back to Denver (then on to DIA on the light rail) and it worked out great for like 30 bucks. Not bad

Sure would be good for Grand County. The Granby Amtrak station is not too far from our condo (Fraser is close too). I would assume that once connected to Craig it would also include a connection to Yampa Valley Airport in Hayden. I'm sure that would help shuttle people between Hayden and Steamboat which is a pretty decent distance. Problem with train travel in the west is it is so spread out. The train currently goes onto Glenwood Springs, Grand Junction and eventually Salt Lake City but it takes FOREVER. Don't think it will change to much on I-70. The Floyd Hill "Flyover" (that's what they call it) is cranking up and we saw some of the effects when we were out there in March.

As for using it or skiing. Even if regular service did not use the platform at Winter Park Resort, there are plans for a new gondola connecting the ski area with downtown Winter Park and a transportation center. The Lift bus service is run by Winter Park Resort and covers the valley up through Fraser and Granby (however not up to the Granby Ranch base lodge which would help). Granby Ranch has set up a small transportation system that can get someone to and from the Amtrak Station. The new spur up to Steamboat would go close to Stagecoach (not sure what the current story there is now) and of course Steamboat and Howelsen Hill.

 

[nycskier]

The problem with the ski train is that they tend to be significantly slower than driving. The train from Penn Station to Rutland is 5hr 30 minute and then you still need to drive another 25 minutes to Killington vs a 4:45 minute door to door car ride. The Vermonter train with a nearly 7 hour ride from NYC to White River Junction, VT is a joke. Who the heck is going to do that?

The ski train from Manhattan to Thunder Ridge exists and can be a fun day with kids who like trains and skiing.

Rail to the Trails

Metro-North Railroad’s one-day getaway to Thunder Ridge Ski Area, in Patterson, N.Y., may be the cheapest, easiest ski trip in the region.

archive.nytimes.com

 

[x10003q]

The problem with the ski train is that they tend to be significantly slower than driving. The train from Penn Station to Rutland is 5hr 30 minute and then you still need to drive another 25 minutes to Killington vs a 4:45 minute door to door car ride. The Vermonter train with a nearly 7 hour ride from NYC to White River Junction, VT is a joke. Who the heck is going to do that?

The ski train from Manhattan to Thunder Ridge exists and can be a fun day with kids who like trains and skiing.

Rail to the Trails

Metro-North Railroad’s one-day getaway to Thunder Ridge Ski Area, in Patterson, N.Y., may be the cheapest, easiest ski trip in the region.

archive.nytimes.com

This.
We looked at the Amtrk Ethan Allen (to Rutland) when we lived in NYC. There are way too many issues on top of the long ride. There are the usual first mile/last mile problems that every train system has, but, in addition you are humping ski equipment around NYC. This is a holy nightmare for 1 person and just not happening for a family. If you are more than 1 person, the costs of the transportation can be much more than a rental car. We never tried the train.

 

[2planks2coasts]

This.
We looked at the Amtrk Ethan Allen (to Rutland) when we lived in NYC. There are way too many issues on top of the long ride. There are the usual first mile/last mile problems that every train system has, but, in addition you are humping ski equipment around NYC. This is a holy nightmare for 1 person and just not happening for a family. If you are more than 1 person, the costs of the transportation can be much more than a rental car. We never tried the train.

Lol..I schlepped my skis on the subway and PATH trains so many times heading to Times SQ in the wee hours of the morning to meet the ski buses to the Catskills.

The Winter Park Ski Train is awesome now that they've dropped the fares to a reasonable level. I'm intrigued to see how the expansion progresses.

 

[nycskier]

This.
We looked at the Amtrk Ethan Allen (to Rutland) when we lived in NYC. There are way too many issues on top of the long ride. There are the usual first mile/last mile problems that every train system has, but, in addition you are humping ski equipment around NYC. This is a holy nightmare for 1 person and just not happening for a family. If you are more than 1 person, the costs of the transportation can be much more than a rental car. We never tried the train.

I used to do the ski train to Killington all the time back in the day. The Sunday train back is awesome. There's a shuttle bus from Killington to the train and then its WAY better to relax, walk around, drink a couple of beers, watch a moving and sleep on the way back then to drive. But if you are 3 or 4 in a family it's pricey and a hassle schlepping skis. But if you are a big group of 9 or 10 friends going up for a weekend the train is MUCH better and more fun then driving up in 3 or 4 different cars.

 

[deadheadskier]

Cost of public transportation seems to be the biggest issue and the equation seems to worsen with volume vs improve. It's a better deal for the single rider than a family.

This past week I took the bus from NH to Logan due to having my car in the shop. It was $54 round trip on the bus and then $21 for an Uber home when I got back as I didn't have a ride available at the time. So call it $96 round trip to Logan. I would have paid $140 in parking for the 5 days at the cheapest off site lot plus gas, plus vehicle wear and tear. Call it $160. So it was a great deal and much more relaxing than driving. I'll probably do that again when flying solo out of Logan.

But the math doesn't work for a family trip. It would cost $258 for the bus strategy to go that route with my family.

Ultimately I think for all types of public transportation to gain higher usage rates, (including ski trains) you need to offer better volume discounts. Get the cost for a family closer to what they spend driving and more would consider it.

 

[4aprice]

Cost of public transportation seems to be the biggest issue and the equation seems to worsen with volume vs improve. It's a better deal for the single rider than a family.

This past week I took the bus from NH to Logan due to having my car in the shop. It was $54 round trip on the bus and then $21 for an Uber home when I got back as I didn't have a ride available at the time. So call it $96 round trip to Logan. I would have paid $140 in parking for the 5 days at the cheapest off site lot plus gas, plus vehicle wear and tear. Call it $160. So it was a great deal and much more relaxing than driving. I'll probably do that again when flying solo out of Logan.

But the math doesn't work for a family trip. It would cost $258 for the bus strategy to go that route with my family.

Ultimately I think for all types of public transportation to gain higher usage rates, (including ski trains) you need to offer better volume discounts. Get the cost for a family closer to what they spend driving and more would consider it.

I think Colorado is slowly figuring this out. They dropped the price for the Winter Park train and ridership went way up. Hear the bar car is a hopping apres ski scene if you can get into it. We just ferried a friend down to DIA from Fraser on the current daily Amtrak service The California Zephyr for like 30 bucks and she said it worked out fine. That's for Grand County (Granby/Fraser/WP town) down to Denver. The expanded service will first run to Granby so that's good for us. I would hope Granby Ranch ski area would try to take advantage (ie maybe shuttle service to and from train station not a long distance) Steamboat is an hour and 1/2 from Granby by car. Its 2 hours by train to the Granby area now it will probably be 4 Denver to Steamboat. I mean as a traveler I personally would'nt mind the trip if say I flew into DIA during the day and could catch a train at 5 or 6 out of Union Station getting to Steamboat at 9 or 10. Can't be price prohibitive though. It's a 3 1/2 hr run by car to Steamboat with 2 passes to cross so obviously if there is weather involved it might be worth it but I suspect most will still drive.