Burke's New Owners and New Start (2025)

[jimmywilson69]

gotta love the negative nelly's from the shadows...

I don't know what Burke needs, but they appear to have engaged ownership group. That as others have pointed out and history has shown might not be enough.

Its a different time now with Internet and being affiliated with Indy. I think if marketed properly it can be a nice little place to play in the winter. I've always wanted to go but just haven't had that opportunity yet. Its far from my perch in PA.

 

[zeke]

So what do you think it needs?

Burke needs someone who gets and loves the place for what it is, not someone who's going to try to make it what they already have elsewhere. it's smaller, (perceived to be) further away, but has great character, great (albeit a possible cursed) history, a viable claim/tie to skiing greatness, and a great town around it. Does it need some competent care, yes. And money. And time. It has so much potential to be something truly unique–something that can't exist anywhere else in Vermont anymore. Wrapping it in the NEK proves they don't really know the place or what it needs. it needs someone to take the time to truly understand it. What it doesn't need is someone coming in day one with a playbook of how it "works" elsewhere.

 

[urungus]

Burke needs someone who gets and loves the place for what it is, not someone who's going to try to make it what they already have elsewhere. it's smaller, (perceived to be) further away, but has great character, great (albeit a possible cursed) history, a viable claim/tie to skiing greatness, and a great town around it. Does it need some competent care, yes. And money. And time. It has so much potential to be something truly unique–something that can't exist anywhere else in Vermont anymore. Wrapping it in the NEK proves they don't really know the place or what it needs. it needs someone to take the time to truly understand it. What it doesn't need is someone coming in day one with a playbook of how it "works" elsewhere.

Can you give a specific example of the new owners “trying to make it what they already have elsewhere“ ? And a specific example of why the new owners are not providing “competent care” ?

 

[snoseek]

From what I see they're taking lots of community input. I remain optimistic.

 

[zeke]

Can you give a specific example of the new owners “trying to make it what they already have elsewhere“ ? And a specific example of why the new owners are not providing “competent care” ?

the new site is basically a copy and paste of the Berkshire east site, done by the same people in canada (vs bringing in someone from VT who may have an affinity for the place) is a pretty good example of just making what they have with a not great logo slapped on it.. as for not being competent, it's still too early to make that judgement. didn't say they weren't competent, I said that's what Burke needs. but just bringing in "his team" to do the same stuff doesn't scream he cares what burke needs so much as he "knows" what it needs. also, the whole wrapping the mountain in the NEK is. at best, lazy.

 

[thetrailboss]

Burke needs someone who gets and loves the place for what it is, not someone who's going to try to make it what they already have elsewhere. it's smaller, (perceived to be) further away, but has great character, great (albeit a possible cursed) history, a viable claim/tie to skiing greatness, and a great town around it. Does it need some competent care, yes. And money. And time. It has so much potential to be something truly unique–something that can't exist anywhere else in Vermont anymore. Wrapping it in the NEK proves they don't really know the place or what it needs. it needs someone to take the time to truly understand it. What it doesn't need is someone coming in day one with a playbook of how it "works" elsewhere.

You DO know who these new owners are, right? It's mainly the family who has been supporting (and bailing out) Burke now for over 30 years and have had a presence at the mountain for probably over 40 years. Don Graham has wrote many checks to save the place. He also was the one who singlehandedly saved it from closing in 2000. It does not get more local than that.

Yes, BEast it a partner and the Schaefers are helping the Grahams run it now, but Jon has ties to the NEK.

With all due respect, you don't know anything about Burke. This post confirms it. Sorry, just being honest.

 

[zeke]

You DO know who these new owners are, right? It's mainly the family who has been supporting (and bailing out) Burke now for over 30 years and have had a presence at the mountain for probably over 40 years. Don Graham has wrote many checks to save the place. He also was the one who singlehandedly saved it from closing in 2000. It does not get more local than that.

Yes, BEast it a partner and the Schaefers are helping the Grahams run it now, but Jon has ties to the NEK.

With all due respect, you don't know anything about Burke. This post confirms it. Sorry, just being honest.

the grahams are financial partners not running it. so with all due respect . . .

 

[urungus]

the new site is basically a copy and paste of the Berkshire east site, done by the same people in canada (vs bringing in someone from VT who may have an affinity for the place) is a pretty good example of just making what they have with a not great logo slapped on it.. as for not being competent, it's still too early to make that judgement. didn't say they weren't competent, I said that's what Burke needs. but just bringing in "his team" to do the same stuff doesn't scream he cares what burke needs so much as he "knows" what it needs. also, the whole wrapping the mountain in the NEK is. at best, lazy.

So your main complaint is with the website ? “His team” does a competent job of running Berkshire East, Catamount, and Bousquet And I don’t see any reason why that would not be the case at Burke. And to claim that Schaefer does not have “an affinity for the place” is flat out wrong. Here is a quote from a message he sent out in May:

What you may not know is that my wife grew up skiing at Burke Mountain, my bachelor party was at the Kingdom Trails, and ever since I've been with her that's been my home too. It is also an amazing community with many of the same ethics as the Berkshire's. It's been a pretty open secret at Berkshire East and Catamount, but for nearly the past five years I've been working on business plans, infrastructure development strategies, and operational plans in order to make a run at buying Burke out of receivership with a great group of partners. It's been an unrelenting passion of mine.

 

[thetrailboss]

the grahams are financial partners not running it. so with all due respect . . .

They're driving the bus. Without the Grahams the place would have been NELSAP a long time ago.

 

[zeke]

the grahams are financial partners not running it. so with all due respect . . .

They're driving the bus. Without the Grahams the place would have been NELSAP a long time ago.

time will tell - i hope i'm wrong. i hope the place flourishes under this group and reaches the amazing potential it's always had. the only thing they've done iis put out the same promise to invest in snowmaking that every group since Ginn has made and launch some generic, block and tackle, get it up quick nonsense website. so that's all i have to go off of. the grahams have never had interest in running the mountain. they care deeply. they've invested heavily - all true. and true that they've kept it alive. that's why their name is on a trail–deservedly. but they have never shown interest in the day-to-day running of it was my point.

 

[thetrailboss]

time will tell - i hope i'm wrong. i hope the place flourishes under this group and reaches the amazing potential it's always had. the only thing they've done iis put out the same promise to invest in snowmaking that every group since Ginn has made and launch some generic, block and tackle, get it up quick nonsense website. so that's all i have to go off of. the grahams have never had interest in running the mountain. they care deeply. they've invested heavily - all true. and true that they've kept it alive. that's why their name is on a trail–deservedly. but they have never shown interest in the day-to-day running of it was my point.

If your reference point is only since Ginn (which honestly was only Q and then the receiver) then you do not really have a lot of perspective on Burke's history. Jon and Tom Day are running the place. Tom just came from running Gunstock and did a hell of a job. He's a legend in the industry. So I would say that the ownership group does have a serious interest in finding the right folks to run it on a daily basis. And yes, snowmaking is a necessary evil and expense. It needs upgrading every so often.

Now if the "other" prospective ownership group had taken over then I would understand the skepticism. Those folks clearly had no knowledge of the mountain at all and only wanted to get the Hotel at a screaming deal and then sell off units for a massive windfall.

 

[eatskisleep]

What do you mean by “wrapping it in the NEK”

 

[Zand]

I'm sure it's just a test, but seeing reports on Facebook that Burke has fired up some guns this evening.

 

[thetrailboss]

Big news from the NEK.....

Burke Mountain Donates Record $100,000 to Kingdom Trails

EAST BURKE, Vt. – Kingdom Trails, a nonprofit organization dedicated to the development and maintenance of recreational trails in the Northeast Kingdom, announced Oct. 27 it has received a $100,000

www.northstarmonthly.com

 

[machski]

Big news from the NEK.....

Burke Mountain Donates Record $100,000 to Kingdom Trails

EAST BURKE, Vt. – Kingdom Trails, a nonprofit organization dedicated to the development and maintenance of recreational trails in the Northeast Kingdom, announced Oct. 27 it has received a $100,000

www.northstarmonthly.com

I think Jon Shaefer gets the area and region.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think Jon Shaefer gets the area and region.

That and they know that without KT there is NO summer business for the mountain AT ALL.

 

[thetrailboss]

One other thing that likely is leading to the donation is that I have heard from multiple family and friends in the NEK that traffic on KT was down and that KT did not do as well financially. This is due to the fact that a lot of the traffic is from north of the border and, for multiple reasons, our Canadian friends are not coming down. And no, we do not need another politically charged thread debating the reasons why Canadians are not coming to the U.S. and/or if that claim is accurate.

Additionally, the Receiver was not flush with cash to help out KT as much as he might have liked. So it is a good PR move. KT and Burke Mountain have a symbiotic relationship.

 

[machski]

One other thing that likely is leading to the donation is that I have heard from multiple family and friends in the NEK that traffic on KT was down and that KT did not do as well financially. This is due to the fact that a lot of the traffic is from north of the border and, for multiple reasons, our Canadian friends are not coming down. And no, we do not need another politically charged thread debating the reasons why Canadians are not coming to the U.S. and/or if that claim is accurate.

Additionally, the Receiver was not flush with cash to help out KT as much as he might have liked. So it is a good PR move. KT and Burke Mountain have a symbiotic relationship.

True and hasn't KT lost trail connections due to land owners getting pissed off from riders not respecting their land and poor riding conditions the last several years?

 

[thetrailboss]

True and hasn't KT lost trail connections due to land owners getting pissed off from riders not respecting their land and poor riding conditions the last several years?

They lost some access--not much, but an important piece of land right in the middle of Darling Hill. I don't blame the landowner for being beyond pissed at the lack of respect by more than a few riders. I also know that a lot of locals hate that bikers frequently ride abreast instead of single file on local roads.

 

[AdironRider]

The access they did lose effectively makes it two separate trail networks, which isn't ideal, and a major loss. KT seemed to fall into the stereotype of bikers not caring about other people (taking up the entire lane unnecessarily, pissing off the landowners who donated the access for free, etc and that extended to the organization overall for not policing it at all for a while) and lost sight of the community aspect that made KT great. I also think KT needs Burke as that has the more advanced terrain and challenge. They need each other ultimately so I think this is a good sign the relationship is headed in the right direction.