Generators

gmcunni · Nov 2, 2012

o3jeff said:
So far so good, only got 10 hours on it. My aunt was saying that the Generacs rated pretty good in Consumers Reports.

my mom gets CR, i'll see if she still has that issue still.

mlctvt · Nov 2, 2012

gmcunni said:
glad to hear you are back on the power grid. are you happy with the generac? thinking of the GP5500

It's been great. It ran for 5 days straight for Irene and 4 days for Sandy. No problems at all. I did the suggested oil change at 50 hours then every 100 hours. Other than that it's needed nothing. I have 2 friends with GP5500 and they've had similar results. Good US built machines and unlike other manufacturers they build their own OHV engines.

If I had money to burn I'd get a Honda, but a 6500W Honda would be at least 4-5 times the cost of the Generac possibly more.

o3jeff · Nov 2, 2012

severine said:
Generator installations have been steady in the Simsbury Building Dept since Alfred last year. Record rates. The thing is, if you don't run your generator periodically, it won't work when you need it. Unfortunate thing we have seen, too. Our work generator powers up once a month for maintenance.

I was finally reading the instructions and it says to run it for a half hour every month with something plugged into it.

JimG. · Nov 3, 2012

severine said:
Glad to hear that!

We were lucky. No rain to speak of. Alot of wind. Trees falling all night, but none of any note on my land.

JimG. · Nov 3, 2012

Excellent generator intel.

o3jeff · Nov 3, 2012

mlctvt said:
It's been great. It ran for 5 days straight for Irene and 4 days for Sandy. No problems at all. I did the suggested oil change at 50 hours then every 100 hours. Other than that it's needed nothing. I have 2 friends with GP5500 and they've had similar results. Good US built machines and unlike other manufacturers they build their own OHV engines.

If I had money to burn I'd get a Honda, but a 6500W Honda would be at least 4-5 times the cost of the Generac possibly more.

From what I read, only the high end Generacs are made here in the US, from reading the Q & A on my GP5500 on Generacs website it is "is manufactured to our specifications by a partner overseas". It is listed as "USA engineered" though.

o3jeff · Nov 3, 2012

The only other advice is that I tend to buy my power equipment at the local sales and service places now since if you ever have a problem with it they put you in the front of the line for service. Might cost a little more but the service is usually worth it.

Example, dropped my chain saw off after work the Friday before this last storm and the guy said will be done in about a week, mentioned that I bought it there and he looks it up and says they would probably have it ready the next day, Monday the latest.

I've had very good luck with both Superior product here in Southignton and Sno-White in Plainville. Other plus is I know that Superior offers free delivery locally on new snow blowers and mowers.

Cheese · Nov 3, 2012

Edd said:
Then you understand that that practice sets the table for an accident if all of the steps you listed aren't followed. Which is fine since you have an EE degree but you claimed earlier it's not "dangerous". I"m sure you understand why I would advise against it.

Can you please set the stage for said, "accident"?

Here's a random example of how it usually works out. A limb goes down on the power lines and 10 houses lose power. Of those 10 houses, 5 of them own generators so by some means the main circuit breakers for those homes are switched "OFF". In the other 5 houses, the main breakers remain in the "ON" position (most people do not throw the main breaker after a power outage). I somehow forget to throw the main breaker before back feeding my home with a generator. The generator attempts to power up all 5 houses on the line, the generator breaker trips immediately and nobody gets hurt.

Personally, I throw the main breaker and power the entire panel via a manual transfer switch. All the sub circuits remain on and I am selective about which home items I use simultaneously. My 5700W generator will selectively run anything in my home except the electric dryer. Normally the generator powers the furnace, well pump and refrigerator plus lights and media electronics. I can further add one other item between the stove, microwave or oven.

JimG. · Nov 3, 2012

Cheese said:
Can you please set the stage for said, "accident"?

Here's a random example of how it usually works out. A limb goes down on the power lines and 10 houses lose power. Of those 10 houses, 5 of them own generators so by some means the main circuit breakers for those homes are switched "OFF". In the other 5 houses, the main breakers remain in the "ON" position (most people do not throw the main breaker after a power outage). I somehow forget to throw the main breaker before back feeding my home with a generator. The generator attempts to power up all 5 houses on the line, the generator breaker trips immediately and nobody gets hurt.

Personally, I throw the main breaker and power the entire panel via a manual transfer switch. All the sub circuits remain on and I am selective about which home items I use simultaneously. My 5700W generator will selectively run anything in my home except the electric dryer. Normally the generator powers the furnace, well pump and refrigerator plus lights and media electronics. I can further add one other item between the stove, microwave or oven.

More excellent intel.

I was wondering how many devices I could plan on being able to use. The setup you have would work great for my house.

Edd · Nov 3, 2012

Cheese said:
Can you please set the stage for said, "accident"?

I mentioned a possible accident if all of the steps aren't followed, like shutting off the main. This addresses it somewhat: http://www.qsl.net/kc5qhh/backfeeddangers.pdf

I've got no experience with generating my own power and selling it back to the grid like Geoff mentioned so I don't know how backfeed issues are addressed in those instances. Perhaps the utility workers are well aware of which residences generate their own juice and they isolate those sources when they have to work on nearby lines.

mattm59 · Nov 4, 2012

I have a generator (Hyundai 7250) and like it a lot. Quieter than the generacs by a wide margin. My main input to this thread is that I added deep cycle batteries, a 50 amp charger, small solar panel (60 watt so far), and an inverter. This allows overnight/early morning furnace, fridge, computer, lights, TV etc. without starting the genny. Nice to start a day without power off quietly.

dmc · Nov 4, 2012

I was thinking if i did this i'd get a generator that runs on propane so I can store the cans and not have to worry about storing gas for long periods of time..

Any difference between the 2? Would be nice if i could also use it to power my band at outdoor parties too....

Cheese · Nov 4, 2012

Edd said:
I mentioned a possible accident if all of the steps aren't followed, like shutting off the main. This addresses it somewhat: http://www.qsl.net/kc5qhh/backfeeddangers.pdf

Lol .. that pdf is actually amusing.

1. Islanding? My generator circuit breaker will pop instantly from the inrush current of trying to power up multiple houses. Inrush is serious enough that the utility companies themselves have concerns.

2. 220V out of phase would generate a large load or short circuit. A circuit breaker will trip under this condition.

3. This is just basic electrical safety. The same danger exists to us if we open up any equipment or electrical panels that are energized.

4. Circuit breakers are not back feed compatible? We do know we're talking about alternating current here, right? We're also talking about a bi-metal sensor that triggers due to heat not any sort of electron directional flow sensor.

5. The dryer breaker is 30 amps so if there are other circuits on the dryer circuit they've always been improperly wired and tied to a 30 amp breaker.

6. When back feeding a panel, all the 15 and 20 amp sub circuit breakers are still functioning normally.

I'll admit it's best to be careful when working with electricity, but the link provided does not offer credible reasons not to back feed.

Edd · Nov 4, 2012

All I'm suggesting is that the generator be hooked up in the recommended methods in accordance with code. Yes the link is goofy but that link is not the sole reason you shouldn't backfeed. Yes, there is more than one way to do it. Again, its considered a bad electrical practice. That's all.

Cheese · Nov 4, 2012

Edd said:
All I'm suggesting is that the generator be hooked up in the recommended methods in accordance with code. Yes the link is goofy but that link is not the sole reason you shouldn't backfeed. Yes, there is more than one way to do it. Again, its considered a bad electrical practice. That's all.

:beer:

MR. evil · Nov 4, 2012

FWIW - back feeding from a generator through the drier outlet, or any outlet for that matter with an extension coord with two male ends (also known as a suicide cord in the electrical biz) violates the NEC (National Electric Code).

In the 99 NEC Code, it is 410-56 (g). [Later versions may have changed the numbering.]
"Attachment plugs shall be installed so tht their prongs, blades, or pins are not energized unless inserted into an energized receptacle. No receptacle shall be installed so as to require an energized attachment plug as its source of supply."

If your state has officially adopted the NEC as the official state electrical code, than the NEC is a law in that state, thus making it illegal to intentionally disregard it. Additionally CL&P is a client of mine, talked to a few of my contacts over there last year after the November storm about back feeding. I was informed by everyone there I spoke with that if CL&P catches you back feeding from a generator they will disconnect your house from the grid and won't reconnect it until you install a transfer switch and they verify the installation.

JimG. · Nov 4, 2012

mattm59 said:
I have a generator (Hyundai 7250) and like it a lot. Quieter than the generacs by a wide margin. My main input to this thread is that I added deep cycle batteries, a 50 amp charger, small solar panel (60 watt so far), and an inverter. This allows overnight/early morning furnace, fridge, computer, lights, TV etc. without starting the genny. Nice to start a day without power off quietly.

Where is your solar panel? I would have no choice other than putting it on my roof.

RootDKJ · Nov 5, 2012

I'm looking for some help wiring a Generac GP7500E.

I am not looking to backfeed into my home's electrical system using a "suicide cable", however wiring this up according to NEC in 3 days is not going to be possible. I need a short term plan using materials that are available. Right now, transfer switches and interlock kits are all sold out in my area.

My electrical panel is an 100 Amp 120/240 volt Murray with a main disconnect, and all of the slots are already full. Have 2 Two 20 amp single pole breakers and I will use these to free up the top right two slots in my panel. In the two opened slots, I will install a 30 Amp two pole 240v breaker. That is the easy part.

The connection on the generator side is a L14-30 outlet, and I have 1 L14-30 male twist lock connector (got the last one at my Home Depot yesterday). The only 30 Amp cable I could get is 10/3, and the generator will sit about 50 feet away from the electrical panel. Can I use this cable to connect the generator to the electrical panel at 240V? How does that get wired up on both ends (color to color)? I understand that I can not have both the main and generator breakers closed at the same time and the dangers involved.

ctenidae · Nov 5, 2012

Since we have to have all of our mechanicals and appliances replaced now, I think we're going to look into having a transfer switch installed. Better than running extension cords all over the house...

mattm59 · Nov 5, 2012

Where is your solar panel? I would have no choice other than putting it on my roof.

it's next to the patio behind the house. South facing. Unfortunately (fortunately??) I have a lot of trees that block direct sun for more than a few hours a day, but it keeps things topped off. I can run about 2-3 loads of wash off this a week generally, then if a storms coming I plug in the charger to top things off.
pic here
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2508410830094366337CNRKjM

and here's to those following code

. Saying an article is silly, then responding with "well, this will pop, or that will shut off, or the other thing will trip" kind of ain't how I want to go through a situation. :lol:

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