Another "Top 20 Ski Resorts" results we can pick apart ;)

http://ski-resort.pikimal.com/top/20/pikirank

This looks like it's a survey that runs in perpetuity, i.e. it doesn't have an end date. Results change dynamically as votes and figures change. MRG is #1 on the east in the list.

<-- found via Mad River Glen's FB page -->

No Maine, New York, or New Hampshire resorts made the list. Three Vermont resorts did, MRG, Mount Snow, and Jay Peak.

Seems like a pretty "meh" ranking to me.

I'm starting to abhor rankings of any kind. Skis, resorts, lifts, etc. It's all marketing BS

[SUP]I have no idea how they get the data but here is some infor on the companyikimal (pronounced as pick-em-all) is a website, designed as a decision engine that uses consumer input to provide specialized search results for products and categories.

Unlike typical search engines, Pikimal mines data to provide users with only the facts pertaining to their search, as a hopeful solution to SEO and marketing biased search results. By letting users choose what's most important to them, Pikimal is able to dynamically produces articles, lists, and comparisons for users explore.

As of April 2011, Pikimal had 13 full-time employees in Pittsburgh, PA, interns, and various contractors around the world.

[/SUP]

FYI, before I get acused of voting a few thousand times for the #5 resort on that national rankings list, I can honestly say that this is the 1st i've evr heard of this survey and had nothing to do with the results! :lol:

Whistler shouldn't be number 2--it should be number 1!!!! I love the variety WhistlerBlackcomb has without the super-resort atmosphere on the mountain (employees are not handing out tissues at the door of every lodge and their aren't scented candles everywhere). Whistler is also more of a Mountain--more impressive than Vail in my opinion. The height of Whistler is about 2 1/2 "Wildcat's" tall (I always measure the height of mountains compared to wildcat--since wildcat is 2,000 feet of vertical). Even Vail is not that tall or that big--look on Whistler's website and click on the interactive "compare ski area" map and see for yourself.

Breckenridge shouldn't be number 3 in my opinion. Yes, the T-bar and the Imperial Express Superchair were epic--but thats it. The blues were greens, the double blues were blues and the blacks were blackish and the double-black imperial bowl is very black-ish. Plus the Evil "Breck-connect ruins it! I want the parking lot close to the slope! Grrr!

I think Alta should be up there high on the list--along with Snowbird as they are epic.


There you go--my dissection of the list!!! :-D

This list is truely garbage.

Lift ticket prices are way off, Jhole hasnt been 87 bucks for years.

They also say it has no bars (there are at least 10 within a 1 minute walk of the tram) and no restaurants. Uhhh no. There are more restaurants per capita in Teton County than in most resort areas as well as the burbs/cities/etc.

Now if they are talking affordable they might have a point, but who argues affordability in the ski industry?

If you are going to rank something, you cant be completely wrong.

The marketing data should be accessible....not intrusive. There's quite a difference. Just as a sports announcer that knows the game...adding a few interesting bits of data once in a while, as opposed to the professional announcers who have well paid careers but possess pathetic social lives....who spend their days up in their hotel rooms practicing the ...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW!s....in front of a mirror for 12 hours....

Vail $50 more like 102
Jay $48 more like $75
Too lazy to look beyond that and I lost interest after those false "facts". Now I can see why Mt Snow is rated 5 with great facts as those.

gregnye said:

Whistler shouldn't be number 2--it should be number 1!!!! I love the variety WhistlerBlackcomb has without the super-resort atmosphere on the mountain (employees are not handing out tissues at the door of every lodge and their aren't scented candles everywhere). Whistler is also more of a Mountain--more impressive than Vail in my opinion. The height of Whistler is about 2 1/2 "Wildcat's" tall (I always measure the height of mountains compared to wildcat--since wildcat is 2,000 feet of vertical). Even Vail is not that tall or that big--look on Whistler's website and click on the interactive "compare ski area" map and see for yourself.

Breckenridge shouldn't be number 3 in my opinion. Yes, the T-bar and the Imperial Express Superchair were epic--but thats it. The blues were greens, the double blues were blues and the blacks were blackish and the double-black imperial bowl is very black-ish. Plus the Evil "Breck-connect ruins it! I want the parking lot close to the slope! Grrr!

I think Alta should be up there high on the list--along with Snowbird as they are epic.


There you go--my dissection of the list!!! :-D

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Alta and Snowbird no their bad places that get no snow at all so do not go there.

I wouldnt bet on this thing. The rankings are a joke.

farlep99 said:

I'm starting to abhor rankings of any kind. Skis, resorts, lifts, etc. It's all marketing BS

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This isn't marketing BS. It is automated data acquisition and aggregation. I doubt an actual skier or rider was even involved in putting this page together and it was probably compiled mostly by automation. Sad that MRG fell for it to use it as a marketing boost via FB.

The web is full of these types of sites that put together a bunch of automatically gathered data, often times with mad libs style automated writing (or getting someone with some familiarity to contract in a quick job) just to get links and ratings so that they can get ad revenue and commission for click through sales. It is the worst of the web. This Pikimal is pretty slick about it but it is no different than the rest of the trash sites out there pretending to be legit but only functioning as a data gathering site without context to get ad and commission revenue from visitors.

The worst part about this site is that they allow users to correct their bad data. This means unwitting people are giving Pikimal free labor to make their site more accurate. How did they get Jay's price so wrong? Because it was probably obtained by an-automated data gathering script, who knows where that number was found. No one from Pikimal went to MRG's web site to research the price. All automated. Just read all the descriptions... it is a script.

I'm not sure why anyone would ever care how mountains are ranked / perceived by other people unless you actually work for the mountain itself and higher rankings = more business = better pay check.

My favorite ski area tends to be the place I'm skiing that day. It doesn't matter if I generally like another area better. Doesn't matter at that moment, so best enjoy where I'm at to it's fullest.

IMO, terrain (variety, challnge) and snow (quantity, quality, preservation) should each count as 45%

Everything else (# of high speed lifts, dining, amenities, terrain parks, etc) counts as 10%.

Much as I love skiing in the East, if I'm honest I'd say that none of the eastern areas make the top 20.

dropKickMurphy said:

IMO, terrain (variety, challnge) and snow (quantity, quality, preservation) should each count as 45%

Everything else (# of high speed lifts, dining, amenities, terrain parks, etc) counts as 10%.

Much as I love skiing in the East, if I'm honest I'd say that none of the eastern areas make the top 20.

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While I don't think they should be the majority of representation, I think a lot of Western resorts' reputations is built primarily upon the fact that are just located "out west". Ala, Vail, Keystone, Breck etc. Those mountains really arent that much better terrain and snow wise than Stowe, Whiteface, Sugarloaf, etc. Ive skied some terrible conditions, notably in Summit County that make the East Coast look like a wet dream. Just because a mountain is out west and has bowl terrain (which after a while is really quite boring - there are only so many wide open runs you can ski before they all seem the same) doesn't automatically make it better.

I would put the top tier East Coast resorts against most Western resorts any day. Now the West does have what I like to call the "Master's Division" of Squaw, JHole, Snowbird, etc that ARE that much better. But in reality, I would be let down if I dropped all that coin on a trip to Colorado and had marginally better conditions than a decent day at Stowe for example.

That may be true if you compare the worst conditions out west to the best conditions in the East. The problem is, the best conditions in the east just don't happen enough.

From my own experience, I'd estimate that ( for snow conditions) 90% of the days at Alta would be in the top 10% of the days at Stowe.



Or, take Solitude for example. You have, what, at least a million people within a 40 minute drive? Yet, it is seldom crowded because it is overshadowed by a number of other areas just around SLC. But, with its combination of terrain, and the number of days you have excellent to great conditions, I'd take a season there over a season at any area in the east.

You take Stowe, Whiteface, Sugarloaf, or Cannon...give them the snow you get in Utah, or even Tahoe. Then eliminate the rain and the thaw/freeze cycles we normally get. And they'd easily be in the top 20.

dropKickMurphy said:

That may be true if you compare the worst conditions out west to the best conditions in the East. The problem is, the best conditions in the east just don't happen enough.

From my own experience, I'd estimate that ( for snow conditions) 90% of the days at Alta would be in the top 10% of the days at Stowe.



Or, take Solitude for example. You have, what, at least a million people within a 40 minute drive? Yet, it is seldom crowded because it is overshadowed by a number of other areas just around SLC. But, with its combination of terrain, and the number of days you have excellent to great conditions, I'd take a season there over a season at any area in the east.

You take Stowe, Whiteface, Sugarloaf, or Cannon...give them the snow you get in Utah, or even Tahoe. Then eliminate the rain and the thaw/freeze cycles we normally get. And they'd easily be in the top 20.

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As someone who has now close 1000 days both east and west coasts respectively, the conditions argument isnt as one sided as the 90% you think. I would argue with snowmaking, Eastern resorts often recover faster. Sun crust out West stays until the next BIG powder day. East coast thats covered with snowmaking and groomed to make it actually a better surface. Don't get me wrong, look where I live, but to say that no East coast resort should be in the top 20 is wrong IMO. You also missed my point where I was referencing Colorado more so specifically, not the entire West as a whole.

Furthermore, big snow totals dont necessarily mean awesome snow. Look at Baker in Washington, massive snow totals, also massive amounts of rain. Don't see that in the marketing materials though.

Its also not all about conditions. Cost, accessibility, etc all are factors. You can get every amenity that western resorts have at the big Eastern resorts as well, while the Eastern resorts are cheaper, easier to get to, etc.

All things considered, western resorts are clearly superior to eastern resorts. Anyone who believes otherwise is either a masochist or insane.

AdironRider said:

As someone who has now close 1000 days both east and west coasts respectively, the conditions argument isnt as one sided as the 90% you think. I would argue with snowmaking, Eastern resorts often recover faster. Sun crust out West stays until the next BIG powder day. East coast thats covered with snowmaking and groomed to make it actually a better surface. Don't get me wrong, look where I live, but to say that no East coast resort should be in the top 20 is wrong IMO. You also missed my point where I was referencing Colorado more so specifically, not the entire West as a whole.

Furthermore, big snow totals dont necessarily mean awesome snow. Look at Baker in Washington, massive snow totals, also massive amounts of rain. Don't see that in the marketing materials though.

Its also not all about conditions. Cost, accessibility, etc all are factors. You can get every amenity that western resorts have at the big Eastern resorts as well, while the Eastern resorts are cheaper, easier to get to, etc.

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I didn't say the snow conditions in the west were 90% better than the east. I said that 90% of the days at Alta would be as good as the top 10% of the days at Stowe (snow conditions wise)

I have nowhere near the number of ski days in the East or the West as you do. But I'd question a few of your points.

First, to specifically reference Alta as a place that isn't "that much better terrain and snow wise than Stowe, Whiteface, Sugarloaf, etc." I'd say it is significantly better in those categories.
Access wise, for us, the East beats the west. But for people who live outside of the northeast, that's not the case. For those that fly to their ski destination, the SLC/Park City areas are probably the most accessible.

Lift ticket prices? I understand Summit County has some of the highest. But overall, is there really much difference in prices between western and eastern areas? Both have some really expensive places, and some more reasonable places. For example, the Park City areas are comparable in price to Stowe, Killington, Bretton Woods. Alta is no longer the cheap place it once was, but I believe the price for a combined Alta-Bird ticket is comparable to a Stowe ticket. Snowbasin, Pow Mow (at least the last time I was there 3 years ago) seemed a bit more reasonable along the lines of Cannon, Wildcat, Burke, Saddleback.

Also, there are enough deals to be found, East or West, that it's rarely necessary to pay the full walk up price.

True, most Eastern areas have more extensive (by percentage of terrain if not acreage) snowmaking coverage. But how much of that isn't groomed as soon as it is laid down? When arguing for Eastern areas to beat out any of the top 20 western areas, I don't think groomer skiing is going to get it done (Now our tree skiing is a different story)Other factors that weigh against the Eastern areas are:
1)Wind....most of the best terrain in the east is on mountains with summits near or above 4000'. We all kow how windy our 4000 footers tend to be. I don't mind skiing in the wind. But I do mind the lift closures and the effect the wind has on scouring the surfaces.
2) crowds. Not neccessarily the sheer number of skiers, or the lift lines; but the density of skiers on the trails. Where western areas measure their acreage by the thousands, ours tends to be in the hundreds. Overall, the skiers are much more spread out in the West than in the East.

I'm probably not qualified to judge whether any eastern area belongs in the top 20, since I've only skied at a half dozen western areas. But I know people who have skied a lot in the West, and going by what I've been told, as well as my own experience, these are some of the best. A list of 30. AdironRider, if you give me the Eastern area that beats 10 or more of these western areas, for combination of snow and terrain, I'll take your word that it belongs in the top 20.

Whistler
Fernie
Red
Revelstoke
Whitewater
Kicking Horse
Lake Louise
Sunshine
Jackson Hole
Grand Targhee
Whitefish
Bridger Bowl
Big Sky
Bachelor
Schweitzer
Alta
Snowbird
Solitude
Snow Basin
Aspen Highlands
Snowmass
Loveland
A Basin
Telluride
Crested Butte
Taos
Mammoth
Squaw
Heavenly
Kirkwood

AdironRider said:

You also missed my point where I was referencing Colorado more so specifically, not the entire West as a whole.

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...and you were singling out I-70 Colorado with the flood of metro-Denver people on cheap passes and hordes of tourons from Everywhere, USA. That is not "Colorado".

bigbog said:

The marketing data should be accessible....not intrusive. There's quite a difference. Just as a sports announcer that knows the game...adding a few interesting bits of data once in a while, as opposed to the professional announcers who have well paid careers but possess pathetic social lives....who spend their days up in their hotel rooms practicing the ...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW!s....in front of a mirror for 12 hours....

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must be talking about bob costas and al michaels