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Thread: Stowe Pass??

  1. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by snowmonster View Post
    I only thought of those routes because I was thinking it was less exposed to patrol just in case they decided to enforce the no skinning policy. Gondolier is a straigh-shot but too much out in the open. I have this plan to do a backcountry tour there: Bruce to Overland to Steeple. Tried it last year but I ran out of time. Perhaps the third time's the charm.
    It's funny I had always assumed Stowe would be skinning friendly given all of the old back country CCC trails. I've seen ppl skin right under the lifts at Jay and Killington.

    I'm all for your tour over to steeple!


  2. #172
    snowmonster's Avatar
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    Yeah, I thought it was skinning friendly too. I also thought that because Mansfield was on national forest land, you could do that without paying a fee. I thought the fee was only for if you decided to ride the lifts. Anyway, thanks to the good folks on AZ, I was set straight and am no longer in danger of criminal trespass.

    I have this checklist of stuff to do at Stowe/Mansfield. Hope to knock-off a number of them this year. Let's go!
    "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - H. D. Thoreau

  3. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by snowmonster View Post
    Yeah, I thought it was skinning friendly too. I also thought that because Mansfield was on national forest land, you could do that without paying a fee. I thought the fee was only for if you decided to ride the lifts. Anyway, thanks to the good folks on AZ, I was set straight and am no longer in danger of criminal trespass.

    I have this checklist of stuff to do at Stowe/Mansfield. Hope to knock-off a number of them this year. Let's go!
    Well anywhere outside of the their dotted orange line boarder on the trail map should be fair game since it is forest land, no?

    90% of my season is looking like a Mt. Mansfield check list!!

  4. #174
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    Yeah, like Killington, Burke, Jay, and others, the ski areas are located on leased state forest land. But even then you are paying for the lifts and access to groomed trails, so hence the lift ticket. But nothing is stopping you from accessing other land in the park.
    Live, Ski, or Die!


  5. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    Yeah, like Killington, Burke, Jay, and others, the ski areas are located on leased state forest land. But even then you are paying for the lifts and access to groomed trails, so hence the lift ticket. But nothing is stopping you from accessing other land in the park.
    Itís good to bring this up once in a while because not everyone is aware of how these policies work. Even though the ski areas are on ďpublicĒ land, the ski areas are leasing that land (or have some similar contract in place), and have control over it. People will sometimes use the analogy of someone feeling like they can go into your apartment anytime they want simply because you are only ďrentingĒ and donít own it. The good news is that many of the ski areas around here in Northern/North-Central Vermont are reasonably receptive to people earning turns within certain limits.

    It looked like there was some confusion earlier in the thread, but Stowe is probably the most supportive resort around in terms of people earning turns Ė they are basically at the extreme end of the spectrum and do everything short of outright advertising for people to come to the slopes to hike and ski. Powderfreak (who works for Stowe) summed it up pretty well in a post at American Weather this spring:

    http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.p...st__p__1480981

    In my experience, Bolton and Mad River are also fine with people hiking for turns. Iíve earned turns at Jay Peak with no problem, and Pico pre-season last year, although I donít frequent them enough to have a feel for what their policies are. Unless I hear otherwise though, my personal approach for the Northern/Central Vermont Ski Areas with which Iím most familiar, is to assume that they are at least tolerant, even if not supportive, of people earning turns (as long as itís done tactfully Ė see below). The current exception to that rule is Sugarbush. Sugarbush has definitely had a policy of no earned turns in recent seasons.

    So, while you typically donít have to be looking over your shoulder when hiking for turns at most mountains around here, you certainly donít want to just head out there with the impression that you can do whatever you want, whenever you want. Even at the most supportive places (e.g. Stowe), you really donít want be skinning up during operating hours, and especially not on trails that have skier traffic. This is a recipe for accidents, and ski patrol will likely take issue. In season, shoot for dawn patrol, and aim so that you are all done before the mountain opens (or at least done with your ascent by the time the lifts start running). Alternatively there is evening after the resort has closed, but getting easy fresh tracks with that setup will usually depend on a storm being in progress or just starting. Pre- and post-season are of course great times for earning turns, since you donít have to worry about opening and closing times. In season, Iím most comfortable earning turns at places to which Iíve got a seasonís pass (generally Bolton/Stowe in recent years), because there is still always the ďtheft of servicesĒ argument out there. Even if you donít use an areaís lifts to access their terrain, you are still potentially using the parking areas, cut trails, grooming, etc. Ė all of which they put money into maintaining, and none of which you necessarily paid for. Not that I wonít earn in season turns at places to which I donít have a pass, but Iím typically going to be hiking at the mountains I frequent most anyway. The bonus is that Iím potentially releasing them from some liability (which Iím sure is one of the bigger concerns against letting people earn turns) because Iíve signed a pass agreement. Thatís a subtlety, and may not help depending on how the contract is written, but just something to think about. Whatever the case, when earning turns at a ski area, try to stay out of the way of mountain operations. Powderfreak will often give Stowe updates on major mountain projects to SkiVT-L in this regard, such as the very informative post below:

    http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=in...R1272&m=155400

    Overall, just be respectful if someone from the mountain approaches you and inquires about what youíre doing.
    Vermont Skiing & Winter Weather Updates: J&E Productions

  6. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Spin View Post

    It looked like there was some confusion earlier in the thread, but Stowe is probably the most supportive resort around in terms of people earning turns – they are basically at the extreme end of the spectrum and do everything short of outright advertising for people to come to the slopes to hike and ski. Powderfreak (who works for Stowe) summed it up pretty well in a post at American Weather this spring:

    http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.p...st__p__1480981
    Great post J.spin. Good to hear that Stowe isn't as closed off as we had touched on earlier in this thread. Thanks for the links and info. =)

  7. #177
    Awesome post J. Spin.
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  8. #178
    snowmonster's Avatar
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    Thanks, JSpin. So, as far as Stowe is concerned, just don't skin on the trails during operating hours, right?
    "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - H. D. Thoreau

  9. #179
    Stowe recently put out a fluff piece on their policy being no skinning ever period. My suspicion was that it was just the lawyers trying to cover their asses. I've always found skinning to be in the culture at Stowe and I suspect that recent announcement will have no teeth.
    -Steve
    TheSnowWay.com "Skiing is not a sport, it is a way of life." - Otto Schniebs

  10. #180
    snowmonster's Avatar
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    ^ This was in Stowe magazine, right? If so, I read that article. See, that's where I'm getting all thrown off about Stowe. IIRC, the article basically said no skinning whatsoever. Of course, any time you go to Stowe, there's always one or two skiers heading up the Toll Road or whatever -- in the middle of the ski day. I'm pretty clear that you can skin up when the lifts are closed at dawn or at night or in the early or late season when Stowe closes. I guess all I want is a clear rule during the ski day: if I skin up, will patrol chase me at some point and haul me in for theft of services/trespassing, etc.? Or, will they just see me, wave and wish me a nice day?

    If the answer is: "well, it's prohibited but patrol rarely enforces it," I'd hate to be the guy they make an example of. With my luck, that's exactly what will happen.
    "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - H. D. Thoreau

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