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Stowe Pass??

riverc0il

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I found this posted about why someone skis at Stowe on the TGR forums. Accurate????

"I ski stowe because...
1. You don't have to avoid it on canadian holidays
2. I have never waited more than 15 or 20 minutes in line on the worst days. If thats the case you just go hiking and take 2 hour long bc runs
3. The patrol guys are awesome, respect them and they leave you alone... Includes hucking the waterfall.
4. There are cliffs everywhere, and some huge ones too
5. Jay's ridge doesn't have anything that compares to the chin.
6. The gondola is nice and warm, and the quad isn't nicknamed the "green mountain freezer"
7. There are sick lines on spruce that nobody skis
8. I like the feel of the stowe hardwood glades better than jay.
9. Stowe has chutes such as the pipeline and goat chute that I have found nothing like at jay.
10. Free samples at the cider mill and cabot on the ride home.
11. I think that park is ok, I don't really know... I ride flat-tails.
12. When on wind hold the double is often running and its a 15 minute hike to the top of the quad.
13. Its a long way to stowe but its fast unlike meandering through bumblefuck northern vt
14. 53 of my 93 ski days last winter were at stowe that brings daily cost to ski in at $8.01 a day. (spent around that on gas, an issue carpooling can solve)
15. The kitchen wall is sick
16. The further back in the notch you go the sicker it gets
17. We feel the need to ski with full avey gear during big storms
18. You skate back to the resort down the notch road, no big jay car spotting involved (I hear the record is chin hellbrook 5 times in a day, I did 2 once and that wore me out)
19. You get to fuck with lots of rich people.
20. There are lots of places to stay on the mountain especially taft lodge.
RE: #19 sounds like a major douche. Also, never waiting "more than 15-20 minutes on the worst days" isn't really a selling point and perhaps is a negative. Even at Jay, I don't think I've ever waited that long even on a powder day.

Jay and Stowe are two very different mountains. Jay sprawls sideways and you can go into the woods almost anywhere. Stowe is 2k vert every run (except Spruce). The trees are very different. Stowe's trees are much more challenging. Jay's off map trees have a bit more mellow vibe. I feel Jay doesn't get tracked out quite as fast but I don't know Stowe as well as I know Jay. Jay's ridge isn't nearly as expansive as Stowe's ridge. You can have some fun off Jay's ridge but Stowe's ridge is really the pinnacle of what you can find by hiking an area in the east. Jay's vibe is more mellow even with the resort development: Stenger vs big corporate bank... ownership comes from a different perspective and it shows in the feel of the two places. Jay's trails get blown off faster than any other place but the woods are expansive and catch a lot of the blown around stuff.

Personally, I like Smuggs better than either Jay or Stowe. Just wish it was closer. If it was, I'd be a passholder for sure.

Just decide what you want and go for it. Once you get north of the interstate, the snow total variances don't matter all that much. Stowe has the ridge and tighter/steeper trees. Jay is a bit more mellow, expansive boundary to boundary and beyond mellow tree skiing and a tiny bit of pucker off the ridge, Smuggs has the terrain and the vibe with some longer waits for the double but incredibly good woods. All three have hike to sidecountry with Stowe leading the three in this category. I'd also factor drive time in, you'll ski a lot more if you are only driving 1 hour... you'll go a lot more on questionable days but 1.5 hours maybe not as much.
 

Huck_It_Baby

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RE: #19 sounds like a major douche. Also, never waiting "more than 15-20 minutes on the worst days" isn't really a selling point and perhaps is a negative. Even at Jay, I don't think I've ever waited that long even on a powder day.

Jay and Stowe are two very different mountains. Jay sprawls sideways and you can go into the woods almost anywhere. Stowe is 2k vert every run (except Spruce). The trees are very different. Stowe's trees are much more challenging. Jay's off map trees have a bit more mellow vibe. I feel Jay doesn't get tracked out quite as fast but I don't know Stowe as well as I know Jay. Jay's ridge isn't nearly as expansive as Stowe's ridge. You can have some fun off Jay's ridge but Stowe's ridge is really the pinnacle of what you can find by hiking an area in the east. Jay's vibe is more mellow even with the resort development: Stenger vs big corporate bank... ownership comes from a different perspective and it shows in the feel of the two places. Jay's trails get blown off faster than any other place but the woods are expansive and catch a lot of the blown around stuff.

Personally, I like Smuggs better than either Jay or Stowe. Just wish it was closer. If it was, I'd be a passholder for sure.

Just decide what you want and go for it. Once you get north of the interstate, the snow total variances don't matter all that much. Stowe has the ridge and tighter/steeper trees. Jay is a bit more mellow, expansive boundary to boundary and beyond mellow tree skiing and a tiny bit of pucker off the ridge, Smuggs has the terrain and the vibe with some longer waits for the double but incredibly good woods. All three have hike to sidecountry with Stowe leading the three in this category. I'd also factor drive time in, you'll ski a lot more if you are only driving 1 hour... you'll go a lot more on questionable days but 1.5 hours maybe not as much.


Thanks! This is a great breakdown and helps my evaluation!

I had considered a Bolton/Smuggs Pass but I have never been to either. Is the side country challenging?
 

thetrailboss

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Thanks! This is a great breakdown and helps my evaluation!

I had considered a Bolton/Smuggs Pass but I have never been to either. Is the side country challenging?

Yeah, the Bolton/Smuggs deal is the new student option. It used to be MRG/Bolton/Jay.
 

J.Spin

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Bolton and Stowe aren't too far off when it comes to snow accumulations. It always surprises me how folks don't know about Bolton's good snow.

As a pass holder there for three years, I don't think they over report much. I have seen both under and over reporting but it is usually pretty close.

Just decide what you want and go for it. Once you get north of the interstate, the snow total variances don't matter all that much.

I think I'm just driving myself crazy trying to find a perfect balance. I love skiing all northern resorts so I'm sure I'll be a happy guy no matter what!

In terms of Vermont snowfall, there’s certainly a notable jump as one crosses the Winooski/I-89/Route 2 corridor, with sub 300” snowfall averages in the mountains to the south (Central Greens), and 300”+ amounts in the mountains to the north (Northern Greens). But, among those northern resorts (Bolton, Stowe, Smugg’s, Jay), while there is an undeniable continuation of the trend of increasing snowfall as one heads northward, the differences aren’t gigantic. As River indicated, what differences there are don’t matter as much – when you get close to 30 feet of snow a season, a couple feet here and there isn’t a big deal because you’ve got more than enough snow to cover everything either way. After several recent seasons of skiing at mostly Bolton and Stowe, I agree with trailboss that the snowfall is pretty similar. I’d definitely still give Stowe the edge (never bet against Mt. Mansfield as Powderfreak would say) but it seems like a big part of the difference in reported average snowfall (which is only about 20 inches) is because Bolton has a shorter season and stops counting snowfall a couple weeks earlier. People often chide Jay Peak for exaggerating snowfall, but like River, I’ve never had an issue with their snow reporting. As someone who measures a heck of a lot of snow each winter, I know how hard it can be at a windy place like Jay Peak, and I know how quickly that “Champlain Powder™” settles. If you measure some of that fluff in the morning right after it’s fallen, and then check it (or ski it) again later in the day, you can get a substantially different measurement. Jay Peak definitely gets the most snow of the Northern Vermont group in my opinion, but even using the resort’s snowfall numbers one can see that the difference is only about 10% vs. Stowe. Jay Peak has some great skiing with all that snow, but they also seem to get the harshest wind and cold temperatures – you can get generally the same snow on Mt. Mansfield with what seems like a lot more protection from the broad Mansfield massif.

You’ve got the right attitude though Huck, you really can’t go wrong with any of the Northern Vermont resorts on the spine in terms of snowfall. I think many people are surprised when they find out that the annual snowfall in the Northern Greens is greater than it is at many ski areas in the U.S. Rockies, and in the same range as all but the handful of snowiest resorts in that region. With reference to Tony Crocker’s snowfall data, I discussed the snowfall comparison in the context or our experiences from our years in Montana in a post at American Weather. There’s plenty of discussion and links to Tony’s data in that post if you want to check out the details. There are actually only about a half dozen ski areas in the region that meet or surpass that 400” snowfall mark, with four of those being the areas in the Big and Little Cottonwood Canyon in Utah; it just tends to feel like more resorts than that because those areas are pretty well known. In terms of overall snow preservation, you can’t beat the high elevations of the Rockies, but when it comes to chances for skiing dry, continental-style powder, the Northern Greens are a pretty sweet place to be. If you’re in the Burlington area with a flexible schedule and a close eye on the local weather, you’re going to be able ski a lot of powder, regardless of what type of winter the region gets.
 

Huck_It_Baby

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If you’re in the Burlington area with a flexible schedule and a close eye on the local weather, you’re going to be able ski a lot of powder, regardless of what type of winter the region gets.

I have a weather problem! I spend a ton of time watching the radar, starring at topo maps, google earth, bing maps, sat data, etc. Some of my friends think I'm obsessive but approve because I know where to go for powder.

I move up in two weeks and will be working from home! Instead of getting dressed for work I plan on wearing my snow pants and goggles. I hope I rip more powder this season than any other! That's the goal at least. I'll be sure to check out Tony Crocker's snowfall data.

JSpin your in-depth knowledge and willingness to share is amazing! Thanks for spending the time to post and help me figure this out. Same with River, Trailboss, etc. I appreciate it guys!

I think Stowe is calling my name because of the notch and accessible side country/BC. It just seems more vast than Jay and more challenging. Cost is ridiculous but I'll ski more than enough to make up for it.
 

jimmywilson69

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I think Stowe is calling my name because of the notch and accessible side country/BC. It just seems more vast than Jay and more challenging. Cost is ridiculous but I'll ski more than enough to make up for it.

And for some reason at the end of the year you don't think you got enough "value" out of the pass, there are other options as have been discussed for 4 pages.

Good luck! Don't forget the trip reports!
 

jaytrem

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Stowe just announced their 2012-13 pass rates: http://www.stowe.com/ski-ride/season-pass/2012-13-season-pass-rates/

Seven Plus/No blackout - $1,653 ($2,056 after 10/30)
Seven/With blackouts - $1,483 ($1,852 after 10/30)
Five/Mid-week - $974 ($1,217 after 10/30)

To get an idea of your break even point, here are the Stowe prices with the Vermont Travel Club Card...

http://www.classicskitours.net/TicketInformation/StoweTicketPrice.pdf

And their other discounts...

http://www.classicskitours.net/vermontTravel.asp
 

Huck_It_Baby

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fbrissette

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In terms of Vermont snowfall, there’s certainly a notable jump as one crosses the Winooski/I-89/Route 2 corridor, with sub 300” snowfall averages in the mountains to the south (Central Greens), and 300”+ amounts in the mountains to the north (Northern Greens). But, among those northern resorts (Bolton, Stowe, Smugg’s, Jay), while there is an undeniable continuation of the trend of increasing snowfall as one heads northward, the differences aren’t gigantic. As River indicated, what differences there are don’t matter as much – when you get close to 30 feet of snow a season, a couple feet here and there isn’t a big deal because you’ve got more than enough snow to cover everything either way. After several recent seasons of skiing at mostly Bolton and Stowe, I agree with trailboss that the snowfall is pretty similar. I’d definitely still give Stowe the edge (never bet against Mt. Mansfield as Powderfreak would say) but it seems like a big part of the difference in reported average snowfall (which is only about 20 inches) is because Bolton has a shorter season and stops counting snowfall a couple weeks earlier. People often chide Jay Peak for exaggerating snowfall, but like River, I’ve never had an issue with their snow reporting. As someone who measures a heck of a lot of snow each winter, I know how hard it can be at a windy place like Jay Peak, and I know how quickly that “Champlain Powder™” settles. If you measure some of that fluff in the morning right after it’s fallen, and then check it (or ski it) again later in the day, you can get a substantially different measurement. Jay Peak definitely gets the most snow of the Northern Vermont group in my opinion, but even using the resort’s snowfall numbers one can see that the difference is only about 10% vs. Stowe. Jay Peak has some great skiing with all that snow, but they also seem to get the harshest wind and cold temperatures – you can get generally the same snow on Mt. Mansfield with what seems like a lot more protection from the broad Mansfield massif.

Great post. Fully agree with this assessment.
 

steamboat1

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Huck_It_Baby

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If anyone is interested I contacted Stowe about single ride lift tickets in the winter and they no longer offer this for ski/snowboarding.

Foot traffic only.
 
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