Big Burke announcement

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

from_the_NEK said:
Say we pick a nice round number like 1000gal/minute that can be pumped up the mountain and turned into snow. That gives the system 1140 minutes or 19 hours of snow making capability using water from the pond alone. Even if you cut the gal/minute being turned into snow in half, you still drain the pond in less than two days.

Their Mid-Burke pump is rated 2,200 gallons per minute. If they used it to its full capacity (do they have enough compressed air to do this?) it would drain the pond 2.2 times faster than your original estimate. But remember, everyone is excited!

The only issue I would take with your calculations is that during an average year the river should be plenty high enough to make snow. What we have seen this year is definitely an anomaly.

from_the_NEK · Dec 2, 2015

VTKilarney said:
Their Mid-Burke pump is rated 2,200 gallons per minute. If they used it to its full capacity (do they have enough compressed air to do this?) it would drain the pond 2.2 times faster than your original estimate. But remember, everyone is excited!

The only issue I would take with your calculations is that during an average year the river should be plenty high enough to make snow.

They also ran into river discharge level problems last winter after everything was mostly frozen up. And it is pretty well known that the water extraction from the river has many times been run at the very edge of the limit. Why keep gambling on something like that?

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

from_the_NEK said:
They also ran into river discharge level problems last winter after everything was mostly frozen up. And it is pretty well known that the water extraction from the river has many times been run at the very edge of the limit. Why keep gambling on something like that?

Good point. You chart does not show river level averages in December and January once things freeze up. It stands to reason that the river levels are much more likely to be lower during that time of year.

And with the hotel, you are correct that they should not depend on the river for snowmaking. You are seeing at least one week of lost revenue this year because of it.

from_the_NEK · Dec 2, 2015

VTKilarney said:
Good point. You chart does not show river level averages in December and January once things freeze up. .

That is graph of the conditions for the last month. Most of Dec and Jan haven't happened yet. However, if you go here:
http://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/vt/n...od=&begin_date=2014-12-01&end_date=2015-02-28

You can enter a date range to create graphs of historical flow levels. The median discharge starts dropping pretty significantly around Dec 10. Bottoming out in late February around 45cfs.
During the late thaw at the end of December last year and the resulting freezup left Burke with one last pond full of water and once that was dry they couldn't pump any more to make snow to recover fully from the thaw. Having a larger pond would have allowed them to stockpile water to protect them in that scenario.

River19 · Dec 2, 2015

So all this is just a big pile of poop from my perspective.

All summer I tried to remain skeptical but positive and give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to getting the hotel done, open, contractors paid etc. In August, 12/11 seemed so far away and like they had plenty of time.

The thing that was evidently completely under the radar for me was that despite chest bumping, ego stroking, pass-holder BSing about snow making improvements. They really didn't do shit to address any of the real issues and/or made such poor decisions along the way that they are unbelievably in a worse place than before.

So they bought fan guns......woo hoo.....without addressing the lack of air pressure and most of all WATER supply and rolling the dice on the river providing "Just in Time" delivery of constant water supply they rendered it all relatively useless.

Who gives a shit about a hotel being available and open if the skiing sucks donkey rump? Why would everyone drive past all the other areas to stay in said hotel and hammer the handful of trails they might have open at some time in later December? How is this going to help the economy of the region in December? You have a 4-5 month season st best and so far piss poor planning has already killed 20% of that right out of the gate......

Very disappointing.

But, everyone is excited....and condo owners must be thrilled they have a few more weeks of hiking available to them on dirt paths with no snow.....

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

River19 said:
So all this is just a big pile of poop from my perspective.

I think that you are being a little harsh. I was able to get a photo of the snowmaking pond this morning and it has filled back in very nicely. Their new marketing director was out personally measuring the depth and encouraging the snowmaking team to get back to work.

from_the_NEK · Dec 2, 2015

5 days of pond capacity to allow pumping at 2200gal/min around the clock = 15,840,000 gallons

15,840,000 gallons = a 48 acre pond at 1 an average of foot deep.
9.7 acres at an average of 5' deep.
8 acres at 6' deep.

That would be the ultimate cover the worst case scenario for river discharge.

More realistically a 8-10 million gallon pond would likely suffice.

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

from_the_NEK · Dec 2, 2015

Wait... Aren't memes my thing? :lol:

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

River19 · Dec 2, 2015

Everyone else also get their daily/hourly FB feed from the Q offering 30% Winter Holidays?

So let me get this straight.....I can pay 70% of the full price for 30% of the mountain being open? Shouldn't it be 70% off?

Why don't we just price room rates at what % of the trails are actually open? Perhaps then they might get their shit together on the ancient formula of making snow.....

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

River19 said:
So let me get this straight.....I can pay 70% of the full price for 30% of the mountain being open? Shouldn't it be 70% off?

If they have to rely on snowmaking there is no way 30% of the mountain will be open by Christmas.

billski · Dec 2, 2015

from_the_NEK said:
Right now I would be surprised if there was space for <100 cars up there (not including the 10-20 parking areas in the basement of the hotel).

That shouldn't pose a parking problem. Unlikely even that will fill up.

billski · Dec 2, 2015

VTKilarney said:
If they have to rely on snowmaking there is no way 30% of the mountain will be open by Christmas.

VTK, you are on a roll today!

thetrailboss · Dec 2, 2015

VTK has beaten me to the Memes this morning....I have some in mind....

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

There is at least some good news. They are making a lot of contingency plans in case they don't have snow for the Christmas break. A friend of mine who works on the mountain leaked to me a photo of the terrain park that Ary just designed as insurance against a lack of snow. That's Patrick Bradley, their Events Coordinator, testing it out.

billski · Dec 2, 2015

thetrailboss said:
....and judging by the sidebar they have almost every job available.

Resort Visual Specialist = Picture-taker?

VTKilarney · Dec 2, 2015

billski said:
VTK, you are on a roll today!

Honestly, I'm just having fun. It's one of those things that you just have to laugh about at this point. Anything else will just depress me.

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