Big Burke announcement

River19 · Dec 22, 2015

mbedle said:
Little confused here, why are you saying that Stenger didn't comment? He did comment in the article, it was Ariel that could not be reached for comment. As far as the 3 million payment, I would venture to guess that some type of contract is in place that specifically states that payment to Peak CM has to come from the state controlled fund. I also highly doubt that Stenger or Ariel have 3 million sitting around in a checking account that is not already allotted for other payees (insurance, employees, F&B, operating costs, etc.). And finally, as far as the hotel opening, its actually a pretty good thing it is delayed. Operating a hotel for minimal to no guess is expensive and a waste of money.

December, operating the hotel would have been a loss, specifically I was talking about doing everything in their power to get open mid January when chances are there will be at least some skiing vs. mid February at the earliest based on waiting for the state to OK payment. But yes, operating an empty hotel is stupid, which brings us back to the original points of .....create a powder capable product and there might be a reason to fill that hotel......

And for "developers" of their supposed caliber to not have access to $3M for short term loans is sad. Of the 3 acquaintances I have which fall into a similar to slightly smaller commercial development league as Q & Co. $3M would be a 4-7 business day turnaround at most. So your thought of contract language etc. might be very close to the truth.

Eh.....fustercluck....

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

VTKilarney said:
Ary was lucky that the people interviewed in the article were condo owners. One thing I have noticed is that the condo owners are all putting on a very brave face in public, despite being REALLY concerned in private.

this makes no sense. You really think the condo owners, in the damn Digger of all places, somehow reserved their opinions, and, even better, did so unanimously? hogwash. the fact is most people, when faced with the warmest December on record, and unlike the incredibly negative crowd on here, recognizes that the weather is the factor. As I have said before- we have a normal December and NONE OF THIS bs is even an issue. Everything else (snowmaking capacity, compressors) you have discussed lives on the margin of this critical fact.

Further, everything you need to know about the Digger is summed up in this quote. They have a goddamn ax to grind with EB 5, represent the viewpoint in VT that has killed jobs and growth, and can go pound type-print up their behinds. Why dont they go write an article about how Bolton isnt open, and no opening in sight?

"Ariel Quiros, who is Stenger’s partner at Q Burke, could not be reached for comment. An assistant said Friday that Quiros was in Miami (where it was 85 and sunny)"

FU digger and your class resentment.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

One other post for me on this- happy to separate the weather and the skiing from the hotel. On that subject... clearly, all criticism is warranted on the missteps. But, make no mistake, the state bears more blame than Burke on this. Did the State really think the EB 5 funds woudl build the hotel but not put goddamn furniture in it? idiots.

thetrailboss · Dec 22, 2015

Big Wave Dave said:
this makes no sense. You really think the condo owners, in the damn Digger of all places, somehow reserved their opinions, and, even better, did so unanimously? hogwash. the fact is most people, when faced with the warmest December on record, and unlike the incredibly negative crowd on here, recognizes that the weather is the factor. As I have said before- we have a normal December and NONE OF THIS bs is even an issue. Everything else (snowmaking capacity, compressors) you have discussed lives on the margin of this critical fact.

True that weather is a part of the predicament, but if it was a normal December the snowmaking shortcomings would still be an issue--slower to open terrain, etc.

Further, everything you need to know about the Digger is summed up in this quote. They have a goddamn ax to grind with EB 5, represent the viewpoint in VT that has killed jobs and growth, and can go pound type-print up their behinds. Why dont they go write an article about how Bolton isnt open, and no opening in sight?

"Ariel Quiros, who is Stenger’s partner at Q Burke, could not be reached for comment. An assistant said Friday that Quiros was in Miami (where it was 85 and sunny)"

FU digger and your class resentment.

You think so? They've been pretty critical of Stenger/Quiros and, unfortunately, a lot of their criticism has been somewhat accurate.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

VTKilarney said:
Q Burke has been really good about posting snowmaking updates to their Facebook page. Until today. Apparently they don't want their customers to know of the revised opening date. Great PR, guys.

you need to get a life. I have an email saying opening is delayed until the 8th. The fact you run to the facebook page to see if their is a similar message, and then run to the internet when their isnt, is laughable. yeah dude, they clearly dont want their customers to know.....nope, not at all. Someone should be fired for that email, dammit!

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

thetrailboss said:
True that weather is a part of the predicament, but if it was a normal December the snowmaking shortcomings would still be an issue--slower to open terrain, etc.

You think so? They've been pretty critical of Stenger/Quiros and, unfortunately, a lot of their criticism has been somewhat accurate.

Trailboss the quote speaks for itself. You and I know exactly why its there. Rich, out of state investor doesnt care about VT- proof? his ship is sinking and he is in Miami, sunning himself. I repeat. FU Digger. there is no logical reason to include that quote except to make an editorial point.

thetrailboss · Dec 22, 2015

Big Wave Dave said:
One other post for me on this- happy to separate the weather and the skiing from the hotel. On that subject... clearly, all criticism is warranted on the missteps. But, make no mistake, the state bears more blame than Burke on this. Did the State really think the EB 5 funds woudl build the hotel but not put goddamn furniture in it? idiots.

I don't think that is correct. The State does deserve (much) criticism for not properly overseeing the EB-5 program, but the particulars as to the business plan, operations, etc. falls to Q and Stenger.

thetrailboss · Dec 22, 2015

Big Wave Dave said:
Trailboss the quote speaks for itself. You and I know exactly why its there. Rich, out of state investor doesnt care about VT- proof? his ship is sinking and he is in Miami, sunning himself. I repeat. FU Digger. there is no logical reason to include that quote except to make an editorial point.

Or their point was to tie into the weather issue....it is 50 F and raining here in VT, 85 F and sunny in Miami. I think you may be reading into that a bit too far.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

thetrailboss said:
I don't think that is correct. The State does deserve (much) criticism for not properly overseeing the EB-5 program, but the particulars as to the business plan, operations, etc. falls to Q and Stenger.

Agree but the release of funds as I understand it was an ommission in drafting, rather than managerial incompetence- maybe blame Stenger and Q based on faulty oversighf of their counsel.
If the agreement with the state was silent as to who paid for furniture and fixtures, then you have a drafting error, whose omission is based on an assumption. The state could have conceded this and executed an addendum or some such to move the ball and release the funds. A hotel is not just 4 walls and a pool, this is not like building a house where no one expects your mortgage to cover your furniture.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

thetrailboss said:
I don't think that is correct. The State does deserve (much) criticism for not properly overseeing the EB-5 program, but the particulars as to the business plan, operations, etc. falls to Q and Stenger.

Agree but the release of funds as I understand it was an ommission in drafting, rather than managerial incompetence- maybe blame Stenger and Q based on faulty oversighf of their counsel.
If the agreement with the state was silent as to who paid for furniture and fixtures, then you have a drafting error, whose omission is based on an assumption. The state could have conceded this and executed an addendum or some such to move the ball and release the funds. A hotel is not just 4 walls and a pool, this is not like building a house where no one expects your mortgage to cover your furniture.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

thetrailboss said:
Or their point was to tie into the weather issue....it is 50 F and raining here in VT, 85 F and sunny in Miami. I think you may be reading into that a bit too far.

maybe but it was out of place and you certainly can not deny the context i presnt is without merit.

Sorry, looking out my window at.....early mud season....has me very cranky today. Plus the thought of all you Burke passholders coming up to Jay to squek down a patch of snow on the Jet has my bloomers in a bunch. Damn you Ary, blow that snow

from_the_NEK · Dec 22, 2015

doublediamond said:
The pond has to be deeper than the outlet. I can't remember off the top of my head, there needs to be at least a few feet of water to support aquatic life.

Why would an artificial pond need to support aquatic life?
More likely reason is that having the pond a few feet deeper than the outlet would help prevent the system from in taking silt and mud which would be bad for the pumping system and likely bad for the nozzles on the snow guns.

And I also think that VT Digger has an agenda here as well. Like BWD said above, where is the article about Bolton not being open. Heck their base elevation is one of the highest in the state. What is their excuse?

VTKilarney · Dec 22, 2015

BWD is cranky!

.

oldtimer · Dec 22, 2015

BWD--
I hate to bring facts into the middle of a good rant, BUT- the EB-5 has very specific rules and regulations about what constitutes core and shell, hard fixtures (furnaces et al), and FF&E. The state's job in this is to be sure that the EB-5 funds are distributed per those regs. This is not a matter of logic and what you think constitutes a hotel.

It is possible that Q-sr and Mr. Stenger did the work at Jay under less scrutiny and were thus able to massage some of the regs in their favor, but that does not mean that state is at fault in this case. There is no doubt in my mind that the Jay investors who feel abused by the terms of their notes being changed by the stroke of Bill Stenger's pen have a right to be annoyed. That type of manuever causes the oversight they have right now. I have no horse in this race but I cannot blame the state for trying to do what they probably should have done at Jay.

Big Wave Dave said:
Agree but the release of funds as I understand it was an ommission in drafting, rather than managerial incompetence- maybe blame Stenger and Q based on faulty oversighf of their counsel.
If the agreement with the state was silent as to who paid for furniture and fixtures, then you have a drafting error, whose omission is based on an assumption. The state could have conceded this and executed an addendum or some such to move the ball and release the funds. A hotel is not just 4 walls and a pool, this is not like building a house where no one expects your mortgage to cover your furniture.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

oldtimer said:
BWD--
I hate to bring facts into the middle of a good rant, BUT- the EB-5 has very specific rules and regulations about what constitutes core and shell, hard fixtures (furnaces et al), and FF&E. The state's job in this is to be sure that the EB-5 funds are distributed per those regs. This is not a matter of logic and what you think constitutes a hotel.

It is possible that Q-sr and Mr. Stenger did the work at Jay under less scrutiny and were thus able to massage some of the regs in their favor, but that does not mean that state is at fault in this case. There is no doubt in my mind that the Jay investors who feel abused by the terms of their notes being changed by the stroke of Bill Stenger's pen have a right to be annoyed. That type of manuever causes the oversight they have right now. I have no horse in this race but I cannot blame the state for trying to do what they probably should have done at Jay.

Thank you for this. I would be genuinely interested in reading more if you can share a resource. Seems odd to me that the program itself would dictate how the capital gets allocated at that level of detail, and not the contract that is bespoke to the project itself. And, if the State allowed funds at Jay to be used to complete furnishings, then they are absolutely at partial fault, as they set precedence.

I dont see any correlation between the Tony Suttons of this world and the state releasing funds for furnishings. Tony Sutton is an annoying squeeky wheel . A quick internet search shows that Jay and Burke have over 500 EB investors, so what that 17 of them feel jilted. Tony Sutton invested in a plan that has absolutely no obligation to pay him back. He got 4 green cards. Go away, Tony.

oldtimer · Dec 22, 2015

BWD-
You are now right in the middle of the transition that the EB-5 program has undergone in the last 3 to 5 years. Forever, we all felt that the EB-5 program was, as you say "He got 4 green cards. Go away." All across the country the program has operated this way. It was a symbiotic relationship that involved a wink and a nod from the investors. Well before Tony reared his head, there were Chinese investors on the west coast who decided that the investments that they made should be investments as well as a quid pro quo for the visas. It has been all down hill since then. There are a couple of lawyers here in the USA looking at EB-5, trying to find those that do not deliver on what was promised in the paperwork and trying to find overseas clients to represent. Easy pickings really.

VTKilarney · Dec 22, 2015

It bears repeating that investors were pitched a return on their investment in five years. Whether or not they should have believed this, Stenger and Quiros wanted them to believe it. In that regard they have been quite successful - all while raking in administrative fees. There was absolutely not a wink and a nod.

As for the VTDigger article, it is no secret that they pride themselves on their EB-5 coverage. That pride is well deserved. If Burke decided to take funds under EB-5, they ought to have realized that this would put them more in the spotlight than a place like Bolton Valley. They are big boys. I am sure they can handle the foreseeable consequences of their conduct.

doublediamond · Dec 22, 2015

from_the_NEK said:
Why would an artificial pond need to support aquatic life?

Yeah because you build your own pond and all frogs and vegetation and stuff respect that it's manmade and continue over to the next real pond.:roll:

from_the_NEK said:
What is their excuse?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the normally open Sherman Pass -> Beech Seal, right? That's 6700 ft long, say averages 70 ft wide. They pump at 1000 gpm. To open they'd need 54 straight hours for an 18" base assuming they can convert 100% of that water to snow (not realistic: they got to have water returning so pipes don't freeze & less efficient snowmaking at warmer temps meaning even more will return to their ponds). Now add on that there's been melting and they don't have much money....

Realistically they need a bigger window like Magic's 5 days to open because of inherent inefficiencies of non-automatic snowguns. Many ski areas need on the order of 2 hours to turn a trail on from top to bottom once the pipes are fully charged. Now add on that they need to shut down and move the guns down the hill as they make the snow.

Makes sense they're not open yet.

Big Wave Dave · Dec 22, 2015

oldtimer said:
BWD-
You are now right in the middle of the transition that the EB-5 program has undergone in the last 3 to 5 years. Forever, we all felt that the EB-5 program was, as you say "He got 4 green cards. Go away." All across the country the program has operated this way. It was a symbiotic relationship that involved a wink and a nod from the investors. Well before Tony reared his head, there were Chinese investors on the west coast who decided that the investments that they made should be investments as well as a quid pro quo for the visas. It has been all down hill since then. There are a couple of lawyers here in the USA looking at EB-5, trying to find those that do not deliver on what was promised in the paperwork and trying to find overseas clients to represent. Easy pickings really.

EB 5 investments by their very terms forbid promising a return. So Tony Suttons took a risk, and like many other investors, did not get a return. Obviously no one promised him one. Further, return of principal was not guaranteed. Here or any other project. So what if a bunch of Chinese investors feel they got screwed? Minus fraud, they have no cause, under EB 5 or any other investment. The fact people have decided they don't like an outcome means nothing to me. Especially under a program whose basis is to fund projects that normal allocators of capital wouldn't take a risk on.

VTKilarney · Dec 22, 2015

One can not promise a return but also misrepresent the likelihood of a return.

Big Burke announcement

New member

Member

Member

Moderator

Member

Member

Moderator

Moderator

Member

Member

Member

Active member

Well-known member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Active member

Member

Well-known member

Similar threads