Big Burke announcement

the original trailboss · Feb 22, 2016

halfpintvt said:
Editorial in the Caledonian Record

2/20/2016 8:00:00 AM
Editorial: Betting On Bill Stenger

The new hotel and conference center at Burke Mountain is ready to open after recently receiving state Certificates of Occupancy.
But unpaid bills to general contractor Jerry Davis are keeping doors to the impressive new facility closed.
Grand openings have been repeatedly delayed as developer Bill Stenger has dealt with neverending series of setbacks. Those headaches have exacerbated the financial torment of a calamitous lack of snow and visitors this winter.
Meanwhile a whole bunch of local people anxiously await the possibility of new jobs and opportunities at the mountain.
The problem started two years ago when a small handful of foreign investors complained to the state after experiencing some buyer's remorse. They weren't complaining about their newly minted green cards - the crown jewel of the EB-5 program - just that they suddenly believed the totally legitimate, above-board deal they willingly signed should somehow be made sweeter.
They got upset when Bill Stenger and Ari Quiros dissolved "Jay Peak Hotel Suites, LP," the legal entity created to build the resort's Tram Haus lodge. With the move, 35 limited partners (each who invested $500,000) lost investor status. In exchange, they got promissory notes, backed by the value of the resort.
The state of Vermont's EB-5 Regional Center, as one might expect from a state agency dealing with complex issues, pretty much had no idea what was going on. They looked totally foolish when their advice to the disgruntled investors was essentially "call Bill Stenger... he's such a great guy."

The investors were confused. Vermont's highest ranking pols (Governor Peter Shumlin, Senators Patrick Leahy and Bernie Sanders, and Rep. Peter Welch) were crawling over each other to take credit for Stenger and Quiros' successes. So how was it, with such a suddenly high profile program, that Vermont's only regulatory body appeared to be no more than glorified cheerleaders?
Well if there's one thing bureaucrats and politicians hate, it's being outed as buffoons. The political class, few of whom have ever built companies or created jobs, started whispering about fraud, corruption, conspiracy, ponzi schemes, dirty capitalists, end-of-the-world, etc. And the way they always deal with that kind of thing is to invent ways to show the world how tough, smart and useful they can be.
Typically that spells death for free enterprise.
The state made a couple of statutory changes and focused its vast, taxpayer-funded focus and energy into regulating Stenger, et al. That meant that the men who created thousands of jobs, and on whose coattails Governor Shumlin rode so boastfully for years, suddenly had to answer to a handful of pencil-pushers before they could write checks or tie their shoes.
No big surprise... with their hands tied, Stenger and Quiros have since been beset by headaches, setbacks and delays.
The biggest irony? The foreign investors who turned to the state years ago because they "lost confidence" in Stenger and Vermont's ability to control him, were really just looking for ways to safeguard their money. By summoning the "power" of the state, those pigeonhearts put otherwise solid investments into serious jeopardy.
We didn't think there were "guarantees" in the investment world. We thought it worked like this: do your homework, pick a strong company, caveat emptor, and place your bets.
For our money, we would have stuck with the guys who turned an obscure federal program into $650 million in local investments over Montpelier desk-jockeys who've never created anything in their lives.

"solid investments" ?

oldtimer · Feb 22, 2016

Snowmaking today at Burke. Lower Foxes Folly is what I see on their facebook pics. I think this may be a matter of necessity rather than expanding terrain to improve the product. Burke is hosting U16 State championships Sat, Sun & Monday. high level racing and the general public are not a safe mix. I am guessing that the safety personnel and the academy have agreed that letting the general public ski down the bottom of Warrren's way during these races is not safe. Thus they need that short chunk of Foxes to access the MBE chair off that side of the mountain w/o going down the Willoughby trail. This is speculation, but adding that chunk of foxes does not do much to add to the offerings. Someone has said they were blowing on Ledges. That would be a substantial move to add more open terrain and fascinating in the face of this upcoming wet blowtorch.

epic · Feb 22, 2016

So, when did the Quiros family buy the Caledonia Record? Will they be re-naming it the Qaledonia Record?

Big Wave Dave · Feb 22, 2016

thetrailboss said:
Yes, we have not heard from the three people who think that we are a bunch of negative nannies. After the news about the Hotel, I think it is fair to say that all is not well in Qville. That's just a fair observation.

Here I am!!

Sorry kids been finally getting my turns in at Jay. You all should have gotten the Judge pass!

well I logged in like usual after seeing the cal record. that about sums up everything I have been saying, plus the huge factor of this awful winter.....still calling this a tempest in a teapot egged on by what is many here's (justifiable) disdain for Ary and his terrible management. Which I personally have not witnessed at Burke in quality of product in several trips this year.

So, yes, the hotel will open and will be busy. Burke will have a normal winter next year with marginally better snowmaking. Skier visits will rise, revenue will pour in from a debt free hotel, and I'll bet you a lunchtime beer at Tamarack they build more EB 5 financed projects at Burke, for better or worse.

Whose got the other side of my bet?

the original trailboss · Feb 23, 2016

Big Wave Dave said:
Here I am!!

Sorry kids been finally getting my turns in at Jay. You all should have gotten the Judge pass!

well I logged in like usual after seeing the cal record. that about sums up everything I have been saying, plus the huge factor of this awful winter.....still calling this a tempest in a teapot egged on by what is many here's (justifiable) disdain for Ary and his terrible management. Which I personally have not witnessed at Burke in quality of product in several trips this year.

So, yes, the hotel will open and will be busy. Burke will have a normal winter next year with marginally better snowmaking. Skier visits will rise, revenue will pour in from a debt free hotel, and I'll bet you a lunchtime beer at Tamarack they build more EB 5 financed projects at Burke, for better or worse.

Whose got the other side of my bet?

I'm in, but we're going to Mike's Tiki Bar, not the Tamaracq. If Ary is removed from the equation and a real ski area leader appears I might renege....

River19 · Feb 23, 2016

the original trailboss said:
I'm in, but we're going to Mike's Tiki Bar, not the Tamaracq. If Ary is removed from the equation and a real ski area leader appears I might renege....

Ah yes, a year ago we were fed that nice spoonful of bullshit where Jr was stepping away from the day to day operations and daddy Sr. and Uncle Bill were hiring in a Mountain Ops guy with experience etc.........how did that work out? GMs come and go like Sysco trucks and Jr is still playing with daddy's mountain and turned it into a game of budget cut whack-a-mole......

I'll just be at Mike's post KT rides anyway hanging with everyone that used to work at the rack when it was decent as well as all the bikers and locals that refuse to go up the hill.

the original trailboss · Feb 23, 2016

River19 said:
Ah yes, a year ago we were fed that nice spoonful of bullshit where Jr was stepping away from the day to day operations and daddy Sr. and Uncle Bill were hiring in a Mountain Ops guy with experience etc.........how did that work out? GMs come and go like Sysco trucks and Jr is still playing with daddy's mountain and turned it into a game of budget cut whack-a-mole......

I'll just be at Mike's post KT rides anyway hanging with everyone that used to work at the rack when it was decent as well as all the bikers and locals that refuse to go up the hill.

You are correct !

BenedictGomez · Feb 23, 2016

The problem started two years ago when a small handful of foreign investors complained to the state after experiencing some buyer's remorse. They weren't complaining about their newly minted green cards - the crown jewel of the EB-5 program - just that they suddenly believed the totally legitimate, above-board deal they willingly signed should somehow be made sweeter.

I'm not familiar with the Caledonian Record, but apparently it's being run by the former Politburo chief of Soviet Pravda.

Maybe he/she entered via EB-5.

from_the_NEK · Feb 23, 2016

BenedictGomez said:
I'm not familiar with the Caledonian Record, but apparently it's being run by the former Politburo chief of Soviet Pravda.

Maybe he/she entered via EB-5.

The Cal-Rec has a pretty long history editorializing about government overreach and generally not agreeing with almost anything done in Montpelier.
They aren't financial experts either :wink:.

thetrailboss · Feb 23, 2016

from_the_NEK said:
The Cal-Rec has a pretty long history editorializing about government overreach and generally not agreeing with almost anything done in Montpelier.
They aren't financial experts either :wink:.

They also go over the top. I agree with some things (the State's complete disaster in "overseeing" the program) but disagree strongly with others (the idea that the Hotel is not open because of the State; it is because Q did not raise enough money!). They've grossly oversimplified a complex mess.

River19 · Feb 23, 2016

from_the_NEK said:
The Cal-Rec has a pretty long history editorializing about government overreach and generally not agreeing with almost anything done in Montpelier.
They aren't financial experts either :wink:.

I have typically found I can get all I ever would need from the Cal Rec during the 2 mins I stand in line at the grocery store.....sometimes I buy it if I need something to start the wood stove......their quality content barely lasts one dump run to the bathroom, at least for me, YMMV......

BenedictGomez · Feb 23, 2016

from_the_NEK said:
The Cal-Rec has a pretty long history editorializing about government overreach and generally not agreeing with almost anything done in Montpelier.
They aren't financial experts either :wink:.

That bit's evident.

thetrailboss said:
They've grossly oversimplified a complex mess.

Horribly. You read complete nonsense like that and you cant help but think of negative Vermont stereotypes.

VTKilarney · Feb 24, 2016

There is another article about the hotel in today's Caledonian Record. Stenger stated that he is paying the contractor over time and expects full payment in four to six weeks.

River19 · Feb 24, 2016

VTKilarney said:
There is another article about the hotel in today's Caledonian Record. Stenger stated that he is paying the contractor over time and expects full payment in four to six weeks.

So the Qhotel is on layaway?

How's that operating capital account doing......lol.....

Big Wave Dave · Feb 24, 2016

BenedictGomez said:
That bit's evident.

Horribly. You read complete nonsense like that and you cant help but think of negative Vermont stereotypes.

So are you a financial expert? Pray tell, what s the mess they are missing? Lead with facts please.

Here's what I see as issues

Duplicity (not illegality) in ow Stenger and Quiros treated the 35 original investors. Not ideal but so what? Not even all the investors in this tranche care, just a percentage of them! Investment involves risk. Their downside protection is a goddamn green card. Good trade as I see it.

Possible malfeasance in land deals between the EB 5 investors and land sales with Quiros
And the fact that the hotel is 1.6% over budget and therefore "unfunded" is a non-event. That number on any project should be considered a victory.

However, and here is where the Cal record is right- the process the state instituted is a bureaucratic black hole. Do you really think Jerry Davis would have the same issue with getting paid if he knew funds where available (and I have a source that says paying the $1.6 is not a problem, the funds are incoming) and forthcoming once pledged to Qburke? Of course not. They need to be put through the filter of the state and approved.

Which of course inserts uncertainty. However- the state has played all claims sent already, so all this financial impropriety you all want to see doesn't really seem to exist, does it? But if I was Jerry, and I saw how the state has taken these guys from Herod to pariahs (again the Cal record is right), I would be cautious too.

River19 · Feb 24, 2016

So the Ohotel IS on layaway then.......

Big Wave Dave · Feb 24, 2016

What are you, a librarian or something? $55 million construction projects go over budget all
the time. It's called the real world, look into it sometime.

And I would note Davis again in the Cal Record squarely and emphatically blames the state. But you guys just keep going with your playground jokes on Ary.

freeski · Feb 24, 2016

They have run the mountain into the ground with their poor management and it will never recover. Q-F***-U*.

BenedictGomez · Feb 24, 2016

Big Wave Dave said:
So are you a financial expert? Pray tell, what s the mess they are missing? Lead with facts please.

You're somewhere between 4,500 to 5,500 posts late to this game. It's all there. In detail.

Big Wave Dave said:
However- the state has played all claims sent already, so all this financial impropriety you all want to see doesn't really seem to exist, does it?

There is absolutely no way to know this (literally) with what we publicly know, and that's a MAJOR problem.

In my experience, were I forced to speculate (and I have), I would be very surprised were there not impropriety here given the complete lack of financial oversight, the complete lack of accountability, the MASSIVE sums of money involved, the complete dereliction of any standards of basic accounting, and what we now know were intentional delays and a bulwark of stalling with regards to audit access (which have still not been resolved) - all of which defy a most basic test of logic. Which I've written about in detail (probably 2,000 posts back).

River19 · Feb 24, 2016

Big Wave Dave said:
What are you, a librarian or something? $55 million construction projects go over budget all
the time. It's called the real world, look into it sometime.

And I would note Davis again in the Cal Record squarely and emphatically blames the state. But you guys just keep going with your playground jokes on Ary.

Lol, BWD I am firmly planted in reality and no, not a librarian, I co-manage a $5.6B budget each year which makes this $55M project look like a toy, but I do enjoy your spunkiness.

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