Mittersill Expansion Map

Just thought I would post it.

Puck it said:

Just thought I would post it.

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Umm what just the words? :razz:

:uzi:

Smellytele said:

Umm what just the words? :razz:

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Nick fix the insert pic thing!!!!!!:flame:

Interesting.

how did you get it working?

Nick said:

how did you get it working?

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It shows up for me when I view the thread and I am two hours behind you and thousands of miles away! :lol:

So the race team is basicly taking it over. Nice.

I think you have it backwards, the public has taken over from the race team. They are only trying to get back some space on the mountian.

Nick said:

how did you get it working?

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It would not liink from my pc. I had to put into the gallery.

skiberg said:

I think you have it backwards, the public has taken over from the race team. They are only trying to get back some space on the mountian.

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I really hope it does not go thru. They can keep Ravine and Gary's. Leave Mitty.
The following is the problem.


Two significant areas will be cleared - the Baron's Run will be widened for top to bottom (to be closed to the public for racing up to 15% of the time) and the middle section will be turned into a massive slope (to be closed to the public for racing use up to 50% of the time).

I understand where you are coming from but we cant deny the history of Cannon. It was created by racers, and in particular the Franconia Ski Club and Hochgebirge Ski club, for the express purpose of ski racing. They both literally built the hill.

Puck it said:

I really hope it does not go thru. They can keep Ravine and Gary's. Leave Mitty.
The following is the problem.


Two significant areas will be cleared - the Baron's Run will be widened for top to bottom (to be closed to the public for racing up to 15% of the time) and the middle section will be turned into a massive slope (to be closed to the public for racing use up to 50% of the time).

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I concur with Puck it. Baron's looks to be widened by at least two times. All the funkiness, elbows, nooks, random trees, fun turns, etc. will all be removed and the trial with be really wide. It will be a Super G dream but it is going to be a boring trail. The map above shows that you could have a direct line of sight from the top of Baron's down to the Tuckerbrook cut off (assuming no rollers cut off the line of site). The "turns" in the trail never completely turn away from line of site, just small bends and adjustments. Very boring and very opposite of everything that Mittersill currently has going on.

The open slope is even worse. T-Bar and its neighboring glade are both gone replaced by a huge slope. The lower portion of the slope is essentially a clear cut, they will cut down more acres in trees than acres in existing trail. The neighboring double liftline also gets some nooks removed in the lower portion.

All of this combined with snowmaking and grooming being added to Skyline is that there are essentially only two top to bottom natural trails left, and they both end on the Liftline so they aren't even two totally unique top to bottom trails, they kinda tangle and wind around each other. Glades are still there but of course we loose some tress or at least part of a few trees due to both of these race trails.

The placement of the T-bar is terrible. It essentially keeps the far northern slope useless because it dumps out at Mittersill which is an uphill travel to the T-bar. If they had the T-bar follow the existing T-bar footprint, that northern slope would have seen much more use.

If you haven't skied Mittersill yet, this is the season to get there and ski it. At least half of the "trail" acres on the mountain will never be the same again. The entire nature of the area will change permanently and Mittersill will lose much of its unique charm. It will be just another trail pod after this happens. I could have lived with just Baron's Run, which is pretty isolated from the rest of the mountain and would at least get the lift going more often than not. But the clear cut right up the gut is a total sucker punch to anyone that appreciates that area for what it currently is: something different and interesting.

That Jay/Burke combo pass is looking even better for 2013/2014.

skiberg said:

I understand where you are coming from but we cant deny the history of Cannon. It was created by racers, and in particular the Franconia Ski Club and Hochgebirge Ski club, for the express purpose of ski racing. They both literally built the hill.

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The race club folks pushing for a lift at Cannon didn't sell it as a ski racers mountain, they sold it as a tourist destination. Racers got the benefits of the Tramway but the economy and tourism is why the lift was put in. Taft was built as a Race Course but it was done via a national program to put people back to work and move the economy. The racing heritage of the area helped steer the spending but the spending wasn't done exclusively for the racing community. The tramway was built more for summer tourism than winter tourism as I recall.

Regardless, appealing to history to determine the future is often shaky ground. I support Cannon's racing pedigree. But racing is a small component of the current mountain. They are going to destroy a unique area for the purpose of relocating the racing area and building a Super G trail.

The management keeps back pedaling on Mittersill, they keep saying that won't do things but then doing those things. They are slowly chipping away at the place and we must beware of the slippery slope we are on... before long, it is likely every trail will have snow making and grooming and all the glades will be on the map. Not being elitist about the glade issue here... I think the sense of discovery about the place is powerful and I think removing that sense of mystery, discovery, and adventure takes away from what Mittersill currently is.

I think you make a lot of good points and i think most people on the forum would agree with you, but keep in mind this expansion is not even close to what Mittersill once was. This is not virgin forest they are cutting. What i was really getting at is that Cannon is unique, there really is no mountain like it and whether we like it or not racing is deeply ingrained into its history and has far greater significance than back country or side country gladed skiing. Its not Jay Peak that is getting this facility, its one of the oldest and most historical racing mountains in the country that seesk to stay true to its roots.
However, i still really hate to see Barons widened, but how many of us actually ski Barons when we ski at Mittersill anyhow. I think we may find that the new wider run with snowmaking is going to be an absolute ripper. It will be the longest most consistent fall line on the hill. The Slalom training area on the bottom sure looks ugly though. Its like a giant scar on the hill.

Riv, you are right that T-bar is in the wrong spot. Move it more right and utilize it more. Go up the old tbar line and it would be much better.

skiberg said:

However, i still really hate to see Barons widened, but how many of us actually ski Barons when we ski at Mittersill anyhow. I think we may find that the new wider run with snowmaking is going to be an absolute ripper. It will be the longest most consistent fall line on the hill. The Slalom training area on the bottom sure looks ugly though. Its like a giant scar on the hill.

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I wouldn't be quite as belligerent about this if it was just Baron's and if BR retained some turns without clear line of sight. But the gash up the middle is crazy. It looks more massive than the slope in the original footprint. It is beyond adding insult to injury.

The gash is horrible I agree. The good news is that that is really step number 2 in the plan. First is Barons, then its the slalom slope, who knows if that will actually come to fruition, but a lot of high level racing folks are salivating at the prospect of skiing on that hill. Apparently it is nearly perfect in its pitch and length.

I have only skied Cannon once last year; and I was bummed that I couldn't get to Mittersil. Hoping to get there this year. The drive really ain't that bad since it's right off the highway. I had a really good time skiing there, even with limited coverage from the crappy snow year.

Skiberg (or anyone),
Do you know the source of this map? I see where Puckit got it from, but presumably (hopefully) that's not the original source. I couldn't find the info on Cannon's "Mittersill Expansion" page nor on FSC's page. The only other place I found it was on Snowjournal where Threecy/Rocket21 did his 'ol self-reference thing but never revealed it's original source (though he does call it "official"). If there is a report that accompanies this map it would be worth reading. We might be able to have a more informed discussion about the plan.

What are all those black square trails on the bottom right of the map?

They should put a lift there.8)