How to ski moguls?

MadMadWorld · Jan 14, 2013

bdfreetuna said:
Slide and bump sounds about right. Thanks for the tip I'll check that out after work.

edit: couldn't wait... watched a few vids. Looks like Sun Valley method is something like how I tackle low angle bumps... except not as fast as the pros in the videos and I tend to get a little air off the occasional bump just for fun.

The video did help me realize one thing.. I am not doing a good job pulling my skis back under me, and therefore there are occasions where I feel my balance starts to get way back and I no longer have good control or speed control. Gotta work on that. This seems like a big reason why my shallow bump and steep bump technique is drastically different.

Sorry to hijack thread OP hopefully this stuff is useful to many people trying to better themselves in the bumps

Nice analysis of your own skiing. The action you're looking for is not so much "pulling your ski back" but rather pressure. When you coming over the top of the mogul you want to be driving your tips into the next mogul by adding a lot of toe pressure. I really like the gas pedal analogy. You will find that if you really grasp this idea, you will find a huge improvement in your balance and overall aggressiveness in the bumps. Hope this helps

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deadheadskier · Jan 14, 2013

Easiest thing I can tell you Dana knowing your ski habits and abilities is to ski at least 15-20 days a season and make sure you spend at least 5-6 runs a day in the bumps with someone who skis them well and is willing to work with you.

You know, someone like me. Or you can continue to bitch your whole way down and feel like puking at the base and wanting to punch me in the face. :razz:

bdfreetuna · Jan 14, 2013

Thanks MadMadWorld I'll give that a shot my next time out!

jack97 · Jan 14, 2013

to the op,

As Glen Plake would say.... you can't buy a mogul turn, you have to earn it.

That said, it means a certain amount of desire, motivation and time to get better. Maybe taking a vow a celibacy will help as well.

jack97 · Jan 14, 2013

j/k aside... I recommend Dipiro's books as well. The huge thing from that book is that he shows how different techniques are from the PSIA and zipperline (world cup) methods.

Go to youtube as well and you can see a difference in techniques. Even within the two major camps, you can see how techinques have evolve through time.

All is not lost if want to get lessons in skiing the zipperline, some poster at this site go to mogul camps in the summer or winter. I now someone who tags along with the freestyle team at Sunapee every w/e. I went up to whaleback and got lessons from Evan Dybvig, former olympian and freestyle coach.

goldsbar · Jan 14, 2013

Buy Dan's book as suggested. It's short, to the point and really good.

As another poster suggested, not being able to do moguls says more about your overall skiing, not just bumps. I spent many a testosterone fueled days in my early 20s skiing nothing but bumps and woods (if either were available) with a couple of friends. None of us could do a zipper. It was a lot of fun but I never got better until I started learning about skiing technique in general. Then one day I came upon a short - maybe 25 foot - zipper line and I just did it. What a feeling!

Read the book, find the right day and the right slopes. Low angle man made bumps (i.e. not irregular) and soft snow are ideal. You won't believe that bumps slow you down if you're skiing ice bumps.

Now, once you realize that every turn, even on the smoothest groomer, has a virtual bump...

JimG. · Jan 14, 2013

jack97 said:
As Glen Plake would say.... you can't buy a mogul turn, you have to earn it.

That said, it means a certain amount of desire, motivation and time to get better.

This. Especially the time.

bdfreetuna · Jan 14, 2013

I have watched a lot of videos and studied the topic a bit this evening.. since I am partially obsessed with becoming as good a skier (for me) as I can within my lifetime, and moguls are one of several areas which I have targeted for improvement this season.

What I have pulled from this collective information is that there are at least 2 primary ways to ski bumps very well. Zipper and Sun Valley style. These at least seem to be the two ways good bump skiers do it. Perhaps there are variations.. I didn't know these things had names until today.

I do not personally see the value in deciding that one is better than the other and deciding that is what one will focus on-- unless one has already mastered one and has no need for the other. I can ski bumps either way usually halfway decent. That means sometimes really well and sometimes I get hung up on a weird bump and stop to reconsider my technique and chosen path down the slope. Also I need to work on pointing the skis forward, down the slope, and getting and earlier angle/edge on my skis. Sometimes I will find myself in the back seat when my legs start to burn, but this is about to change.

Anyway.. what I am trying to say is that I am by no means the voice of authority on mogul skiing although I consider myself experienced enough to give the following suggestion:

Practice zipperline and Sun Valley style. And on steep double diamond bumps don't think it's wrong to use the top side of moguls to pull a quick almost-hockey stop to cut speed.. and then quickly make the next turn and do the same if necessary-- when you get more confident you won't have to do this on every bump but realistically on a 30-40 degree slope this is what normal (normal as in GOOD) skiers do.

The reason I say practice both is because for one thing, one way may come more naturally. So if you find that out you have an early advantage. Then practice the other way because if one comes much easier than the other, there is something you should improve about your overall skiing fundamentals. When you become reasonably comfortable with both you might find that one style works better in some situations and the other style works better in others.

Like perfect seeded bumps vs. weird gnarly bumps. I think zipper is better in the shallower seeds and Sun Valley is better in the weird stuff. SV gives more flexability for variable bumps and weird terrain.. zipper style has the rhythmic quickness.

But like I said I didn't have a name for these things until now, I just watched a bunch of videos and identified the way I ski at different times in different situations with the way people supposedly representing these different styles are skiing.

I enjoy skiing shallow bumps with a lighter touch, bouncing off them and getting some air here and there. I enjoy skiing really steep bumps linking a bunch of jump turns. But I'm a kind of light guy. Maybe your body build or skiing style or even the way you like to envision yourself skiing is totally different than mine. I wouldn't say there's a right or wrong way to do this. Think about who you are, how you like to ski, what's fun for you and what's holding you back from skiing *your* best... which is probably not the same as somebody else's best. Bumps are not like skiing slalom or GS where its a matter of one kind of perfection.

Also take the advice of the people I am taking advice from over mine.. especially this time of night

Edd · Jan 15, 2013

JimG. said:
Get Dan's book:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...d-You-About-Mogul-Skiing&highlight=dan+dipiro

Just downloaded this to my phone for less than $4. Thanks!

Cheese · Jan 15, 2013

bdfreetuna said:
Practice zipperline and Sun Valley style. And on steep double diamond bumps don't think it's wrong to use the top side of moguls to pull a quick almost-hockey stop to cut speed.. and then quickly make the next turn and do the same if necessary-- when you get more confident you won't have to do this on every bump but realistically on a 30-40 degree slope this is what normal (normal as in GOOD) skiers do.

I like everything that you posted and perhaps even the above is fine but I might have misread it. Absolutely stop when things have gone wrong. I've seen far too many people get tossed into the back seat but rather than stopping and restarting they'll continue on hoping to recover. During a competition run this may buy some points but when you're learning, stop and restart.

Unless you're in small/medium moguls on a green or blue trail you're never going to want to try to slow by using the peak of a mogul. Larger moguls on steeper terrain have a backside that's nowhere you want to be. It'll be near 90* if not beyond so the idea of slamming a hockey stop at the peak then falling down the mini cliff or backside of the mogul will just get you in more trouble. Stop up there, slide back down the front side and then restart from the valley where you belong.

MadMadWorld · Jan 15, 2013

bdfreetuna said:
I have watched a lot of videos and studied the topic a bit this evening.. since I am partially obsessed with becoming as good a skier (for me) as I can within my lifetime, and moguls are one of several areas which I have targeted for improvement this season.

What I have pulled from this collective information is that there are at least 2 primary ways to ski bumps very well. Zipper and Sun Valley style. These at least seem to be the two ways good bump skiers do it. Perhaps there are variations.. I didn't know these things had names until today.

I do not personally see the value in deciding that one is better than the other and deciding that is what one will focus on-- unless one has already mastered one and has no need for the other. I can ski bumps either way usually halfway decent. That means sometimes really well and sometimes I get hung up on a weird bump and stop to reconsider my technique and chosen path down the slope. Also I need to work on pointing the skis forward, down the slope, and getting and earlier angle/edge on my skis. Sometimes I will find myself in the back seat when my legs start to burn, but this is about to change.

Anyway.. what I am trying to say is that I am by no means the voice of authority on mogul skiing although I consider myself experienced enough to give the following suggestion:

Practice zipperline and Sun Valley style. And on steep double diamond bumps don't think it's wrong to use the top side of moguls to pull a quick almost-hockey stop to cut speed.. and then quickly make the next turn and do the same if necessary-- when you get more confident you won't have to do this on every bump but realistically on a 30-40 degree slope this is what normal (normal as in GOOD) skiers do.

The reason I say practice both is because for one thing, one way may come more naturally. So if you find that out you have an early advantage. Then practice the other way because if one comes much easier than the other, there is something you should improve about your overall skiing fundamentals. When you become reasonably comfortable with both you might find that one style works better in some situations and the other style works better in others.

Like perfect seeded bumps vs. weird gnarly bumps. I think zipper is better in the shallower seeds and Sun Valley is better in the weird stuff. SV gives more flexability for variable bumps and weird terrain.. zipper style has the rhythmic quickness.

But like I said I didn't have a name for these things until now, I just watched a bunch of videos and identified the way I ski at different times in different situations with the way people supposedly representing these different styles are skiing.

I enjoy skiing shallow bumps with a lighter touch, bouncing off them and getting some air here and there. I enjoy skiing really steep bumps linking a bunch of jump turns. But I'm a kind of light guy. Maybe your body build or skiing style or even the way you like to envision yourself skiing is totally different than mine. I wouldn't say there's a right or wrong way to do this. Think about who you are, how you like to ski, what's fun for you and what's holding you back from skiing *your* best... which is probably not the same as somebody else's best. Bumps are not like skiing slalom or GS where its a matter of one kind of perfection.

Also take the advice of the people I am taking advice from over mine.. especially this time of night

Not sure about the video you watched but SVMM style is to ski the tops of the moguls and using short radius carved turns to cut speed. That is why pressure is so important in the SVMM style. Its almost impossible to complete such a short radius carved turn without being over the tips of your skis. Your right that terrain can dictate what style you use. I like to use combinations of both because I think they can be useful in different scenarios

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bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2013

Cheese said:
I like everything that you posted and perhaps even the above is fine but I might have misread it. Absolutely stop when things have gone wrong. I've seen far too many people get tossed into the back seat but rather than stopping and restarting they'll continue on hoping to recover. During a competition run this may buy some points but when you're learning, stop and restart.

Unless you're in small/medium moguls on a green or blue trail you're never going to want to try to slow by using the peak of a mogul. Larger moguls on steeper terrain have a backside that's nowhere you want to be. It'll be near 90* if not beyond so the idea of slamming a hockey stop at the peak then falling down the mini cliff or backside of the mogul will just get you in more trouble. Stop up there, slide back down the front side and then restart from the valley where you belong.

Ah, when I said backside I meant the "top side". Front side to me is the steep part... essentially facing in front of you. I have dyslexic tendencies in terms of directions. Sorry for the confusion

bdfreetuna · Jan 15, 2013

MadMadWorld said:
Not sure about the video you watched but SVMM style is to ski the tops of the moguls and using short radius carved turns to cut speed. That is why pressure is so important in the SVMM style. Its almost impossible to complete such a short radius carved turn without being over the tips of your skis. Your right that terrain can dictate what style you use. I like to use combinations of both because I think they can be useful in different scenarios

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app

That's why I prefer SVM / short radius turns over bumps in the variable or weird moguls, as there is more flexibility in terms of the rhythm and size of each turn. It feels and looks more fluid. But then again I can only ski bumps zip line if they are lined up nice and not too huge.

SVM also allows one to get some air here and there by and generally ski in a more playful manner. In a zipper the only way you're gonna get any air is by having lost control of the line.

Fascinating discussion. Makes me want to ski some bumps right now

MadMadWorld · Jan 15, 2013

bdfreetuna said:
That's why I prefer SVM / short radius turns over bumps in the variable or weird moguls, as there is more flexibility in terms of the rhythm and size of each turn. It feels and looks more fluid. But then again I can only ski bumps zip line if they are lined up nice and not too huge.

SVM also allows one to get some air here and there by and generally ski in a more playful manner. In a zipper the only way you're gonna get any air is by having lost control of the line.

Fascinating discussion. Makes me want to ski some bumps right now

Yes indeed. You are learning young padawan.

Smellytele · Jan 15, 2013

bdfreetuna said:
Fascinating discussion. Makes me want to ski some bumps right now

They probably would be icy right now :lol:

Cheese · Jan 15, 2013

bdfreetuna said:
Fascinating discussion. Makes me want to ski some bumps right now

They're either firm or harvested for coverage.

This is one of those times when they'll probably never soften up until spring so they might as well just flatten them and reseed. On the other hand, if they flatten them, customers will complain that there are no moguls. What's a resort to do ...

wa-loaf · Jan 15, 2013

Cheese said:
They're either firm or harvested for coverage.

This is one of those times when they'll probably never soften up until spring so they might as well just flatten them and reseed. On the other hand, if they flatten them, customers will complain that there are no moguls. What's a resort to do ...

I wonder if WA will still have them up Thursday. They were pretty nice last week.

Nothing beats a lot of mileage in the bumps no matter what you are doing. I've never studied or read any of the different methods (and haven't read through this thread fully). I ski mostly the troughs and middle of bumps and just use the mogul as speed check. I spent days when I was younger throwing myself down the bump fields (and observing others) at Sugarloaf until things seemed to be working. My biggest obstacle these days is endurance.

kingslug · Jan 15, 2013

My double rocker skis make the bumps..much easier..you can just float right through them...

MadMadWorld · Jan 15, 2013

kingslug said:
My double rocker skis make the bumps..much easier..you can just float right through them...

Rockered skis definitely are a lot more forgiving when you are too far in the back seat

Grassi21 · Jan 15, 2013

JimG. said:
Get Dan's book:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...d-You-About-Mogul-Skiing&highlight=dan+dipiro

Nick said:
^A very good book. I read it on my Kindle last year. At one point, the author had been here posting about it.

Agreed. Great book. I am still not a good mogul skier since I haven't applied all of the drills outlined in this book. But the info and explanations in this book help to fill in a lot of blanks.

How to ski moguls?

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